Congratulations China!

Originally Posted by MIGleader

two type 93s have been launched already. whether the pic shows them is unclear.

That's what I thought also. I even read somewhere (Sorry, I don't remember where) one went on sea trials. hmmm. It would be nice to see a clear picture of it though. I mean, we got to see the Yuan SSK for cryin' out loud.

Originally Posted by Sea Dog

That's what I thought also. I even read somewhere (Sorry, I don't remember where) one went on sea trials. hmmm. It would be nice to see a clear picture of it though. I mean, we got to see the Yuan SSK for cryin' out loud.

The issue is that nuclear subs are considered strategic weapons, so there are more secrecy over them.

Originally Posted by Gauntlet

Seeing all of the Victors has beeing taken out of action and have been replaced buy Akulas, Sierras and in the future, possible Graneys, I wouldnt call them realy good submarines.

Maybe for a first try (Chinas first, that is) maybe, but not in an upcoming war...

Well, you're right. The Akula's definitely outclass Victor III's. But that doesn't mean the 093 designed at Victor III level is not going to be a credible nuclear sub. 093 clearly goes beyond what was built into the HAN SSN. China has learned alot about nuclear propulsion since the Han came into service.

@ tphuang - I agree with you. But I think once the 093's go through complete sea trials, we might get to see them. Well, that's the hope anyways.

It is indeed true that US navy has leased the Gotland class AIP submarine to train their ASW forces to find diesel-submarines. The status after the latest months is that US navy is having severe problems even finding it at all.... So to say that the US navy will be able to sink a AIP diesel-submarine after the training with the Swedish navy is ridicilus. It will instead show how hard it is to even find it at all before it finds you..

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publ...cle_003780.php


Some nice shots of Yankees looking for our sub

http://www.1ubflj.mil.se/photo.php?id=101904&nid=29052
http://www.1ubflj.mil.se/photo.php?id=101903&nid=29052
http://www.1ubflj.mil.se/photo.php?id=101902&nid=29052

So to say that the US navy will be able to sink a AIP diesel-submarine after the training with the Swedish navy is ridicilus. It will instead show how hard it is to even find it at all before it finds you..

That's nice. Just how many sailors either from the USN or on board the Swedish sub do you know?...

I know one. My son. He's a sonar tech. He is an instructor of advanced sonar technology at the USN ASW school in San Diego. He recieves classified data from this project. He cannot discuss the project at all. So what really is going on is truely unknown.

He has stated several times to me that it is indeed difficult almost impossible to find a desiel boat. But the USN will have one year to discover ways to find and kill desiel subs. I as a 20 year USN veteran have confidence the uSN will find some method to find the deisel boats or countering them in some manner.

Did you know that the Gotland participated in the Parade of ships during fleet week in San Diego? Check out the pics!

http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=28669

http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=28701

The reason the US is training with the swedish sub is because the swedes have the best diesel electric AIP tech, the russians diseals are much noiser than the swedes, and the US has only nuclear subs. This means that the US training against the swedish boat will make finding the heavily proliferated russian made subs much easier. Also, Sweden is friendly to the US so thats an added bonus. Im sure the Swedes and Americans discuss the ways of tracking it otherwise it wouldnt be part of a friendly formation for a carrier battle group. Sweden probably gets good training off this as well, since they probably rarely get a chance to move and train in formation like a carrier battle group. Its a win win for both countries. Plus I like Vikings, my family many generations ago came to the US in the early 1800's from Scandinavia(moms side) and England(my pops side).

The Gotland class submarine is also a small 1,500 ton sub, hard to find in the water like the German 212 Class. Besides Sweden, Norway also fields the excellent 1,100 ton Ula class sub. Both Sweden and Netherlands are joining forces to develop the next generation "Viking" class sub.

Here's a little funny blurb on what a single 1,150 ton Swedish sub did in a NATO exercise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ula_class_submarine

"The Ula Class submarines are some of the most quiet submarines in the world. During Joint Winter (NATO exercise), the submarine KNM Utvær was disqualified because it kept an invasion at bay, and the command wanted the land based field operations to take place. In recent years, several submarines of the Ula class have been deployed in the Mediterranean Sea in support of the NATO operation Active Endeavour, where their intelligence gathering ability have surpassed expectations. Their operatonal availability proved to be the highest of all the ships taking part in the operation."

Was probably the french kept at bay. The first sign of trouble and the white flag is hoisted. Ok that was a bad joke just teasing.

our 2 new u212 will fight a nato fleet in february nato exercise
say goodbye to the fleet

Originally Posted by ger_mark

our 2 new u212 will fight a nato fleet in february nato exercise
say goodbye to the fleet

The US navy may have its weaknesses and get surprised form time to time...but there is also no one better at learning form those surprises to the point of coming back and correcting them. They have had to do so in the past...I expect the USN will do so now as well.

They have the money, the research, the personnel...and they have the alliances with the nations who make the best AIP DEs to ensure it.

Originally Posted by EternalVigil

The reason the US is training with the swedish sub is because the swedes have the best diesel electric AIP tech, the russians diseals are much noiser than the swedes, and the US has only nuclear subs. This means that the US training against the swedish boat will make finding the heavily proliferated russian made subs much easier. Also, Sweden is friendly to the US so thats an added bonus. Im sure the Swedes and Americans discuss the ways of tracking it otherwise it wouldnt be part of a friendly formation for a carrier battle group. Sweden probably gets good training off this as well, since they probably rarely get a chance to move and train in formation like a carrier battle group. Its a win win for both countries. Plus I like Vikings, my family many generations ago came to the US in the early 1800's from Scandinavia(moms side) and England(my pops side).

aip is not noisy. its the engine that mkaes noise. and the chinese have very quiet engines. china does not use entirelty russian subs either

They have the money, the research, the personnel...and they have the alliances with the nations who make the best AIP DEs to ensure it.

They have my son!

our 2 new u212 will fight a nato fleet in february nato exercise
say goodbye to the fleet

Gotta a news flash for you. As an experienced American sailor the USN seldom puts all its ablities to use in war games against foriegn forces. Often time the US forces have let the oposing forces win.

But you just go on believing what you will.

Truth is,....A desiel sub is very hard to track. Very hard.

Originally Posted by MIGleader

aip is not noisy. its the engine that mkaes noise. and the chinese have very quiet engines. china does not use entirelty russian subs either

I did'nt say it was, I said the russian subs are compared to the european ones.

well well
u212 is like 2nd generation of gotland
with sonal stealth,infrared stealth and it noiseless (british sea king threw a sonar 20m next to it and they only heared waves)
plus very much improoved sensor system and improved aip