Chinese submarines thread

[crobato]

It kind of reminds me of the KJ-200 crash in the way that the sub has a bit more people on board, which I suspect may be technicians and engineers. And the way it was publicized, how the top officials show their concerns for the "martyrs" and all. Its not hard to imagine the sub being used as a testbed, given the history that Mings are often used as test beds.

[crobato]

This has to be either an 093 or 094's nose. Seems like tropical seas.

[kickars]

Is that a dolphin in front of the sub's nose?

[BlueSeadragon]

[QUOTE=tphuang;17205]
Considering that it stated Yuan set a dpeth record for a conventional submarine, I'm guessing this is going to be one advance submarine. It looks like Song is already getting mass produced, so China is making sure that Yuan finishes all of its tests before being formally revealed.

1) The Song is apparently no longer in production. But there are two more Yuan (modified) nearing completion - so expect more of this class.

2) It is impossible for a submarine of this sort to set a depth record for a conventional submarine - because the record would require a wholly different configuration. It COULD set a record for a military type (vice research type) conventional submarine. I would not want to ride on it when it did!

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by crobato

They have already stopped Song production early as last year. Actually I'm a bit surprised they stopped since by PLA measure, it is a successful design (after all the mods). The Yuan had initial setbacks being a new design, so it took a little time to figure things out. But that's typical of all new designs. Some of this new and unchartered territory is probably because the Yuan is reported to be using AIP. Now it seems the Yuan is fixed and that's where the production is going.

Does anyone have evidence that the production relly stopped in 2007? And if it did so....how many submarines of the Type-39 class was finaly constructed?

[rhino123]

As of Sinodefence website, it seemed that PLA had operate 9 Song submarines.

It is also a surprise to me that PLA had stop SONG production. Afterall the design is quite successful. However we would not really know, since many of the military thing is secretive in China.

[Riverman]

Well acording to sinodefence shiplist it should be 10 songs in service.
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/...nstruction.asp

[crobato]

Originally Posted by BlueSeadragon

2) It is impossible for a submarine of this sort to set a depth record for a conventional submarine - because the record would require a wholly different configuration. It COULD set a record for a military type (vice research type) conventional submarine. I would not want to ride on it when it did!

I think it was meant to mean a record for a PLAN submarine.

As for the numbers of Songs I would say at least 12 in service, because there are three flotillas of Songs, one for the North, East and South Seas Fleets. Each flotilla consist of 4 submarines. Note the end numbers for the Kilos are the same too. Houbeis are also grouped into sets of fours.

The pennant ranges however, show a greater number since they span from 313 to 329. That to me suggests 16 subs, and it seems to me that one fleet, the ESF may have two flotillas.

Although the Song is a successful design for the PLAN, the Yuan seems like a convenient evolutionary step to make since it apparently reuses many of the technologies developed for the Song. The Song's demise may have already been planned when the Yuan was arranged. At first the Yuan had to sort things, and in fact the great majority of the Songs were built after the first Yuan set sail. And now they got the Yuan fixed, and so shift the focus to the new hull. I think it was the Yuan the PLAN wanted in the first place, and the Song eventually became transitionary.

Still I really wonder how many Yuans the PLAN planned on building. If you have a successful nuclear sub program, there is going to be budgetary and doctrinal pressure against the diesel subs.

[tphuang]

so they PSed off the holes, but yeah picture of a Yuan in sea test, apparently taken in Shanghai. Still the good old Yuan.

[crobato]

There is a slight change on the upper hull near the bow, so this part does not form into a more prominent triangle as before. Its more curved and streamlined. But this is just a minor change. Another change there is the short wake sensor that probably has less drag than what we have seen used before.

The fact that the holes are censored means they're changed. Changes like this means noise reduction. You can see the PS however, and looking at their locations, the limber hole changes seem to be a minor job as well if there is any change.

Other changes include the tail extension, which has been retrofitted on Songs and the first Yuan. I want to see the notch behind the sail to verify if its still there. I speculate that in the original Yuan, the notch may have been used for a towed hydrophone. The new tail extension may have relocated the hydrophone to the tail.

Yeah, its still the good old Yuan for the most part.

P.S. There are actually two subs here, the pictures are not of the same single sub. One of the subs have not painted the flank sonar white warning labels in yet, and another seems slightly higher on the water.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by crobato

There is a slight change on the upper hull near the bow, so this part does not form into a more prominent triangle as before. Its more curved and streamlined. But this is just a minor change. Another change there is the short wake sensor that probably has less drag than what we have seen used before.

Interesting with these pictures of diving plane attached to the sail in the original Yuan.
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/...an_04large.jpg
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/...an_03large.jpg
looks like they were glued on.
This picture of Yuan looks much better.

The fact that the holes are censored means they're changed. Changes like this means noise reduction. You can see the PS however, and looking at their locations, the limber hole changes seem to be a minor job as well if there is any change.

Other changes include the tail extension, which has been retrofitted on Songs and the first Yuan. I want to see the notch behind the sail to verify if its still there. I speculate that in the original Yuan, the notch may have been used for a towed hydrophone. The new tail extension may have relocated the hydrophone to the tail.

Yeah, its still the good old Yuan for the most part.

P.S. There are actually two subs here, the pictures are not of the same single sub. One of the subs have not painted the flank sonar white warning labels in yet, and another seems slightly higher on the water.

actually I see flank sonar warning labels in all the pictures. But yeah, I just also noticed the white warning labels on the the tail. Could indicate towed array sonar there.

[crobato]

Sorry Feng, but I have to say two of those pictures alleged to HSH are phonies, since I found the originals in my hard drive.

[crobato]

Let's put this way. These three are not of the Yuan that may have just sailed down recently. I have two of the originals for this, and I believe it to be an actual second Yuan that sailed down the river in August 2005. The original sighting of the Yuan in the dock ready to go was July 22, 2004. There is a serious possibility HSH mixed up his pictures. I am enclosing my originals.

[crobato]

Now these ones I don't have originals and likely to be new. The reason is the sub has the white passive flank sonar warning line, which was never seen on the Yuans when they were in the river in Shanghai. The white lines were only painted on the Yuans as of 2007 when they have been long stationed in Sanya, Hainan.

I also noticed that this ship has a deeper and darker color. Another thing is that the red waterline is higher on the sub, indicating a higher surface displacement.

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by BlueSeadragon

2) It is impossible for a submarine of this sort to set a depth record for a conventional submarine - because the record would require a wholly different configuration. It COULD set a record for a military type (vice research type) conventional submarine. I would not want to ride on it when it did!

They were saying a record depth for conventional submarines - possibly including all the world's operational conventional subs. That, of course, doesn't include the unconventional ones. A conventional sub can't possibly come close to specialized diving vessels (e.g the bathscaphe) in setting record depths.

If what was said is true - instead of something is lost in translation (quite possible I think), it would be quite an accomplishment although there are also other criteria to consider like the sub's speed and stealthiness.