Chinese submarines thread

[darth sidious]

like I side before 1 chinese sub can not get pass all the asw around the carrier. the seewolf can stop one or even two but they can not stop a mass attack from10-12.asw might be victorus simply beacuse they have more ship but subs grouped toughter can change that.

PS the AIP engine in the gotland is NOT new but more along the line of an undated WWII walter engine can not be compared with hydrogen fuel cell.soviets had similar project in the 50s and 60s

[tphuang]

If what I know about Chinese ASW capability is true, then it's frightfully bad. My current understanding is that our entire ASW helicopter squad consists of a group of small Z-9Cs using outdated AS-12 dipping sonar plus a small number of Helix using VGS-3 dipping sonar. So in reality, there is no way China's ASW capability is even as good as the Russian's. They talk about using the sonars on 636M and Yuan as the main ASW tools. I'm still not sure what kind of sonar they are putting on these subs. To be fair, this is one area that they abandonned until very recently. Hopefully, the development of TAS is a sign for things to come.

[tphuang]

not sure whether to put it into this thread or the one crazyinsane just created. Anyhow, this is the translation of an interview with a PLAN Colonel:

copied from http://www.china-defense.com/forum/i...howtopic=10036

Too long a post to translate. Here are some things mentioned. There are two articles from two sources.

The first article:
* 091 & 092 have been refitted, possible a new propulsion system, sound proof tiles, and JL-2.
* The sub collided with a foreign sub. Possibly Russian.

The second article(a long interview with a navy commander?, divided into three segments)
* China has finished the catpult develpment in a cave airport. The bottleneck is the carrier-capable fighter.
* China figured out how to hit US carriers with ballistic missles. Or at least there is enough potential to make US concerned, ala 1996 Taiwan Strait incident.
* China has the guided(?) Shkval topedo(or the Chinese equivalent with foreign assistance), the quoted speed is 1000m/s!!! The longest range for the target test is 130 knots!!!
* China has excellent C3I/C4I system across the strait.
* China subs have spied in foreign ports right under the enemy's nose.
* China has 24 hr duration stealth UAV.
* 039 is capble of launching anti-sub, anti-ship and anti-radiation missles.
* There is a new type of missles capable of actively blinding oppornents' radar and sensors.

more translation:

Addendum and more details:

First article:
Sound tiles, about 5 cm thick, looked foreign, from the packaging. Suspect Northern European. Attachment is not via glue, but mechanical. Front side smooth, back side uneven.

Subs' missile silo tops refitted and looks new. Top is rounded instead of flat and taller to accomodate JL-2.

Sub nose shows shiny new metal, repairs from collision with foreign sub. So that's what "Big nose" means?

---
The second article has lots of sailor's anecdotes with the nuggets of info mixed in, hence it's so long. Pardon if I left some things out, I read these parts last night and this is what struck out.

First he talks about the battle depicted in the movie "Sea Hawk" (proper translation? can't find it on imdb). The main idea was that the secret engine in the Chinese FACs allowed them to operate at flank speeds for a much longer duration than Russian FACs at the time. The opponent thought we were using Russian equipment so did not take the threat seriously. Thus surprise was achieved. Supposedly when China wanted the MIG-21 from Russia, they asked for this engine in return. The moral of the story is to keep some critical capabilities hidden.

The second anecdote talks about the '96 strait missile crisis. Media reports the US carriers moved back "200 nautical miles" after their initial position, possibly due to the dissapearance of one of China's SSNs. Interviewee states that it could be partially due to this, but the main reason was the DF-21 Mod 3 anti-carrier IRBM. He claims that China has sovled the 3 big problems with an anti-carrier IRBM: tracking target, mid-flight and terminal course correction, and terminal guidance. He claims that the US moved their carriers not 200 nauts, but 1000 nauts after the DF21s were brought out of their tunnels. That China knew this and tracked their course entirely (gave coordinates, but censored). The US learned of the capability because some researcher or officer's kid was tricked by TWese agent to cut a small piece of material from a model. The material eventually reached the CIA and from this, they concluded that China had anti-carrier IRBM capability.

The next anecdote is about training with Kilos. Apparently without their latest equipment, the surface vessels could not find the Kilos for days. When the exercise ended the kilo was finally found when the sub crew were banging their pots and pans. The ship captains were rather annoyed. During the next exercise they recruited help from local militia to organize fishermen to use their fishing nets, and they found the kilo by thus cheating.

But during later parts of the execrise, new technologies using (I'm not sure what is the proper translation for "线谱") and laser-radar were able to find the Kilos.

The next part talks a bit about incidents in the South China Sea, but not much in the way of current info.

Then it talks about 039 as yccnorth already summarized. The navy is more or less satisfied, but wants to keep developing it to be cutting edge, hence each ship is different. But the main objective was to be able to fire the 3 kinds of missiles: anti-ship, anti-sub, and anti-radiation.

Then it talks about carrier development. Supposedly the problems are all solved except aircraft, and the Navy is really wanting to acquire SU-32FN, not just a rumor. Supposedly the problems of catapult and deck material have been solved. A land-based testing site was built, with separate landing strip and catapult. The catapult is steam (PLAN insisted) and is inside a cave (I suppose the aircraft flies out the mouth on takeoff). Tested with J-7II. Testing is already complete and caves probably sealed-off. It wasn't detected by foreign intel, even with satelite, because it looked the same as other cave-based airstrips. Steam catapult development was based on carrier bought from Aussies as scrap metal. Plans for carrier is in the 60,000 ton displacement class, 24 fighters, 24 strike ac. Models have fighters that look like small F-22s.


And that's only the translation for half of the interview.

anyhow, I think that confirms quite a few thing. In the sub related front, it looks like they are really working on the new noise reduction technologies and the ASW techniques seem to be getting slightly better.

[Gollevainen]

sounds amazing...almoust too amazing...But if the talks about catabult are tru, we should start to exept some serious work on Varyags bow, or completely forget it as possible operational unit...It didnt happen to mention anything about the catabults statistics and capapilityes, did it??
Also, that 'anti-carrier' IRBM...from mouth of a normal 14 year old member i would say BS...and annoying BS particularry...but now i just dont know...I have a bad habid to trust too much officals in these matters and now weapons against claimed PLAN officer...
Or someone just wrote the article of his wet dreams and but that part or officer as a source to make it look more cool
Could you confirm me wrong by telling some of your own thougts about its credipility, eq is it writen in that manner that it could be areal interview of educated officer (i have no idea how 'class' differences show in chinese language, but there must be some differnes of some sort )???

Also, You could have made a totally new thread or post that carrier part in dedicated carrier thread...Now we have to see, wich part will drawn more attention, and if The talks turn into catapults, i try to find a way to seperate them to new thread instead of closing this one, or stall the carrier conversation...

[Mazepa]

Originally Posted by IDonT

You have misunderstand the US intentions of leasing the Gotland subs. It is used to developed NEW tactics for prosecuting and advance AIP capable SSK. The US has always been proactive in that regards, the profeliferation of AIP capable SSK has not yet mature, yet the USN has endevoured to developed ways to prosecute it before Russia and China has even fielded a single AIP capable SSK into their fleet. I would not call that underestimation.

The Gotland class is far from an old design. The first one was commissioned in 1996.

Despite these improvements, the AIP SSK is still limited due to its very low endurance. It is more of a defensive, movable minefield type weapon, it will frustrate the USN, but it is hardly a war winning weapon. The new Seawolf Class SSN has a quite speed of more than 20 knots, which means it produces the same noise level at 20 knots as an AIP SSK does at 5.

The Gotland Class design is in fact from the eighties.. And is based from the Västergötland class that was commissioned in 1986. The new A26 submarine that is under development will surely be much more effective when it comes to endurance, speed and quietness.

Hopefully we will be able to share that technology with our Chinese customers when the embargoe is removed.

When USA assumes that all other countries systems and weapons are inferior to theirs by default it is a classic underestimation. You will now be able to refine your ASW, and we will be able to refine our AIP subs...

[IDonT]

Originally Posted by Mazepa

When USA assumes that all other countries systems and weapons are inferior to theirs by default it is a classic underestimation. You will now be able to refine your ASW, and we will be able to refine our AIP subs...

I'm afraid that way of thinking afffects all nations, all countries suffer from that....In the US there is a dangerous trend, and some would say almost impossible to achieve, that wars can be fought with minimal casualties. The perception that the US military is not only invincible, but is expected to win all the battles with minimal casualties is very dangerous. While it is true, that in a conventional war between the US and China, the US will win, the expectation that the US will win all the battles of this perceived conflict is a fallacy.

The US military, however, seldom underestimate their opponent. Their exercises are modeled after what they perceived the true capabilities of their expected enemies then ramp it up to the next level. Don't make the mistake of underestimating the US military. It is a professional all volunteer fighting force that gets not only top of the line equipment, but also trains longer and harder than its contemporaries and constantly seek and employs very effective tactics.

[tphuang]

I'm not sure, I will check the authenticity of the article once I get home from work. I encountered this article just before I slept last night. What I can say is this. This is not the only place that I read about a anti-ship ballistic missile for China. Richard Fisher also mentionned that in his latest article. He also mentionned the increasing accuracy on the Chinese SRBM and IRBMs. The part about catapult would be pretty hard for anyone outside of PLAN to verify. And the stuff about interest in 32FN does seem quite believable. I personally think China has been looking for a bomber that's better than mkk2 and 32FN does fit that role. I also saw among the latest Kanwa articles that 32FN maybe up for sale. We will see I guess.

[bd popeye]

Tphuang. I read only what you posted of the article. Personally I would find it hard to believe that the PLA would let such classified material "slip out"

I think the article has some truth espically reguarding the missiles the PLA has and is developing. But some of it is hard to believe. But if found to be authentic information it shows that the PRC is well on it's way to becoming a military super-power.

[Sczepan]

I am also interested in this article and the seriousity of the sources - about a catabult I heard some rumors before, that PLAN developed and tested one after studying the Melbourne .... if this is true we will have a absolutly new sight about the carrier-programme of China including Varjag (a catapult could be installed in front of the angled deck, for example)

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by Sczepan

I am also interested in this article and the seriousity of the sources - about a catabult I heard some rumors before, that PLAN developed and tested one after studying the Melbourne .... if this is true we will have a absolutly new sight about the carrier-programme of China including Varjag (a catapult could be installed in front of the angled deck, for example)

If the PRC indeed has developed a catapult for the Varyag this is big news. Could well be the Melbourne did have steam catapult(s). I'm going to continue this part of the discussion in the Varyag pics thread. Because I do have some questions and of course the article source is in question

[Gollevainen]

I'm going to continue this part of the discussion in the Varyag pics thread. Because I do have some questions and of course the article source is in question

good call, the carrier discussion is certainly boosted up with this article. So no more carrier talks in this thread, but in the proper one...

[tphuang]

This is quite an interesting bit on China's 093 and 094 development. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I'm quite interested in its description of China's high temperature gas cooling reactor. Or as huitong called it, "high temperature high efficiency nuclear powerplant"

http://bbs.military.china.com/jsp/pu...=573305&page=0
093型多用途核潜艇是中国于20世纪80年代开始研制的一型核潜艇。目前关于这型潜艇的传闻很多，另一艘 094型核动力导弹潜艇的消息也很受人关注，目前只披露部分关于093型的消息。本文消息来源如下：1．部 分即将解密的内部资料，本文作者受托，恕不能公布消息正式来源，但据悉本消息肯定将在20个月之内解密。2 ．本文所列部分情况均悉转述原文，其具有相当准确度。
　　
　　研制过程一波三折 历经十余年仍徘徊不前
　　
　　70年代初期，中国研制的第一代鱼雷核潜艇研制成功，此后中国又研制了第一代导弹核潜艇，并于1985 年首次水下试射弹道导弹成功。但是，中国研制的第一代核潜艇时，首先解决的是“有”与“没有”的问题。因此 对于潜艇的技术性能指标并无过多要求，80年代时这些潜艇就已经过时，例如092型导弹核潜艇只能发射射程 2300千米的巨浪-1导弹，并且所有核潜艇均不适合过长时间的远洋航行。中国为了解决核潜艇的性能问题，一边先后对091和0 92进行了3次大规模的技术改进，一边开始研制中国的第二代核潜艇，即093和094。这其中，093是多 用途核潜艇。
　　
　　093的最早研制设想早在1980年就已经出台。当时，邓小平在视察了海军潜艇部队时尤其提到了要大力 发展核潜艇，并且要求“这个核潜艇的东西要走在其他军舰的前面”。海军于是于1980年11月下达了研制新 型核潜艇的计划，当时要求要达到前苏联第三代的技术性能指标。经过三年的反复论证和立项，093型于198 3年7月正式上马。
The development of 093 was proposed in 1980. The planning started in Nov 1980. It was originally required to reach USSR's third generation capability. After three years of argument on this, the project started in July of 1983
　　与当时中国的其他军品研制计划一样，093的研制也经历了风风雨雨，几经波折。最初093的研制进展非 常缓慢，主要原因是无法解决新型武器和新型核反应堆的研制。1988年，中国核反应堆技术有突破性进展，并 于当年向阿尔及利亚和巴基斯坦出口了我国自行研制的民用轻水核反应堆。民用核技术的进展被国际上认为是中国 在核技术领域中的一次很重要的跨越，当年的《简氏》曾专门刊文就中国核潜艇和核弹头的发展做出 报道。
The development was very slow in the beginning. There was probably a break through in China's nuclear technology in 1988, because we exported to Algeria and Pakistan our light water reactor.
　　1989年原先的093研制计划遭遇重大调整，原因是海军领导认为原先的093的有关性能已经不先进， 为了避免出现091一出世就已经被淘汰的局面，有关部门对093的研制作出了调整。
In 1989, the previous 093 project faced a huge change, because PLAN felt that the original specs for 093 was not advanced. There was a change in the requirement.
　　1993年093的研制再次受阻，原因仍然是技术的落后。当时美国新一代“弗吉尼亚”级(原名“百人队 长”)核潜艇的研制进展非常顺利，1993年弗吉尼亚级的有关技术情报被PLA获取，有关技术性能领先当时 的093至少两代以上。这让093的研制小组大吃一惊。
Even more objection resulted in 1993, because Virginia SSN's development was very smooth. It's technology was at least 2 generations ahead of 093 and 093 development team was very surprised.
　　海军对于093型的最初要求是，排水量在4000-6000吨之间，能够携带12枚战术导弹，可以发射533和650鱼雷，可以发射潜射导弹，达到国际 80年代水平。因此，093型的最初模型依稀可以看见前苏联阿库拉的影子。但是在很多关键领域如潜艇减噪， 下潜深度和压水堆上，093的初期设计落后阿库拉级很多。而80年代前苏联S(塞拉)级更加先进，而美国海 狼级则可以说达到了冷战期间美苏核潜艇研制的极限。
The original requirement for 093 was to have a displacement of 4000 to 6000 tonne, be able to bring 12 cruise missile and fire 533 mm and 650 mm torpedoe. Can also also fire AShM and reach the world' 80s level. The original model had some trace of early Akula. However, the noise level was a problem, so the design was very much behind Akula. 80s SEVERDOVINSK is even more advanced and seawolf was even more advanced.
　　此后093的研制趋于停滞，直到1996年我国新型核反应堆技术出现重大突破。原先的中国核潜艇均采用 前苏联于6、70年代采用的压水堆方案，但是由于国内技术不过关，同时从国外引进又无可能，这导致核潜艇的 研制无法有所进展。中国为解决这一矛盾于80年代后期起另辟奚径，开始研制当时国际上最先进的高温气冷核反 应堆技术。
093 development stopped until 1996, when we had a reactor breakthrough. The earlier SSN (091) uses 60/70s USSR technology. Since the doemstic technology is not there and can't study from abroad. This SSN's development did not have any advancement. That's why in the late 80s, China decided to develop world's most advanced High temperature gas cooled technology


　　从此以后，093型的研制逐渐加速，直至现在。
　　
　　半途换项获得成功 动力系统世界领先

　　高温气冷核反应堆最早在前苏联60年代就已经提出，其于60年代后期曾经专门就此技术展开讨论，当时得 出的结论是“与其花大代价研制新型的有很大风险的高温气冷堆还不如继续研制压水堆”，确实，当时压水堆的技 术还有很大发展余地，而高温气冷核反应堆的理论最早于1964年3月见于前苏联核专家П Л 乌里扬诺夫提交的一份论文。但是在当时研制这样的新型反应堆确实有很大技术风险，主要瓶颈在于堆体对于材料 的力学强度和堆内反应控制要求特别高，对堆内反应温度的掌握稍有不慎就会造成爆炸，发生与1986年前苏联 切尔诺贝利核电站相似的事故。前苏联虽然没有在60年代就这一项目上马，但是并没有放弃对这一技术的研究， 每年都专门拨款进行相关研究，使得前苏联在这一领域的研究远远快于美国。80年代，在材料力学有了很大发展 之后，前苏联将研制高温气冷核反应堆列入正式计划。众所周知，在核潜艇领域，前苏联对于很多新技术的研制并 不落后于美国。反观美国，一直到1981年才首次提出研究这一项目的计划，但是美国人对于这种技术并不十分 关心，美国海军认为以洛杉矶和海狼的先进程度，并不需要再在反应堆上再花大力气。前苏联对高温气冷堆的研制 进展比较顺利，1986 年第一台模型出台。但是，就在其准备正式上马研制装备此堆的时候，苏联解体，接替苏联的俄罗斯一片萧条，俄 海军不仅无法继续装备前苏联时期研制的比较先进的塞拉级，甚至连海军的官兵的工资都无法保证，更不用说研制 高温气冷堆这一需要国家大力投入的项目。此后它的研制就搁置了起来。
High temperature gas cooled technology first started in USSR in 60s. Due to the chernobyl incident in 1986, USSR did not continue on this research and abandonned it. However, USSR's research in this area was far further along than America. In the 80s, material technology had a lot of advancedment. So, USSR studied more on this. America did not start researching n this until 1981, because they weren't too interested in it. In 1986, the first such reactor in USSR came out. However, as they were studying to put this on the sub, USSR collapsed. The Russians could no longer continue this.

　　本来美国是有机会接过前苏联的接力棒使用这一技术的。1993年，曾经获得过前苏联“二级功勋”奖章的 Д 卡萨巴连科叛逃至美国，其携带有关于高温气冷堆的重要核心机密并期望以此获得美国籍。但是，美国这时刚刚在 弗吉尼亚的研制取得很大进展，不太看得上卡萨巴连科的材料，况且卡萨巴连科本人生活比较放荡，到美国的时候 还吸毒，因此CIA认为此人情报疑点很多，导致美国没有重用此人。直到1998年美国获悉中国在这一方面研 究取得重大突破再想起此人时，为时晚矣，卡萨巴连科已经在1994到1997年的某一年中因为吸毒与黑社会 发生瓜葛，被枪杀在圣路易斯市的街头。
USA had a chance to get in touch with the Russians on this. In 1993, a Russian scientist escaped to America. He had secrets about high temperature gas cooling technology that he hoped he can get American citizenship with. However, US just had a lot of advancements in Virginia SSN and did not take this scientist's material into consideration. Also this scientist lived quite a carefree life style. He was even taking drugs, so CIA didn't think hgihly of him. By the time America received news on China's breakthrough on this in 1998, this scientist already died between 1994 and 1997 due to drugs and gangs.　　
　　中国研制这种技术始于80年代中期，苏联解体后中国大量引进前苏联技术人员，据悉，目前在西北进行军事 研究的前苏联专家至少有6600人(对于这一数字的说法很多，普遍认为应该更多。因为90年代以后，中国因 为外交和经济上的原因而需要的俄语人才大量减少，但是北外、广外这些年来吸收的俄语招生并没有减少，大量的 俄语人才被认为用于军事领域)。改革开放使中国的经济力量大为增强，许多可以用于军事项目的民用技术也有很 大进展，如材料力学和流体力学(1976年建设毛主席纪念堂时因国产玻璃钢硬度不过关而放弃采用的2号方案 在1983年就已经解决)。中国的许多军品研制在90年代取得进展很大程度上归功于进口了大量 俄国专家。
China started researching on this in mid 80s. After USSR collapsed, China hired many USSR scientists. In North Western part of China, a lab hired at least 6600 USSR specialists? (wow).

　　1996年国产高温气冷核反应堆研制取得技术性突破，困饶多年的堆内温控问题基本解决。1997年底第 一台高温气冷核反应堆样堆研制成功，并成功在四川试运转。此后中国先后数次拨专款加快093的研制。大约在 2000年上半年，首座高温气冷核反应堆吊潜艇成功。应用这种反应堆的最大好处是可以大大增加潜艇的航速和 水下动力。
In 1996, China's high temperature gas cooling reactor had a major breakthrough. In 1997, the first such reactor successfully tested. It got transferred to Sichuan for testing. China then put more money into development of 093. In 2000, the first such reactor got installed on a submarine? This kind of submarine greatest increases a SSN's cruising speed and submerged manuverability.
　　多年铸一剑 功到自然成
　　
　　随着反应堆的研制取得进展，093型的整体研制也上了一个台阶。从1995年开始，中国开始瞄准21世 纪中国海军远洋作战需要重新设计093型。与美国的“前沿作战”需要不同，中国海军在21世纪的首要目标仍 然是奔向大洋，因此093的研制目标要求适于远洋深海作战。093的排水量和艇体大小被大大加大，同时配套 武器的研究也同步发展。近年来海军在武器研制上有很大进展，如新型鱼雷，反舰导弹和巡航导弹等，实际上是为 093准备的。093的最后一项技术突破是2000年取得的消音瓦。
In 1995, China started to envision the role of PLAN in the 21st century and redesigned 093. The displacement of 093 increased. Also, the current PLAN weapon also had a huge improvement including new torpedo, AShM and LACM. 093's final breakthrough was the development of anechoic tiles.
　　目前的093型1997年开始艇体建造，1999年基本完成框架，2000年吊装反应堆，目前正处于最 后的完工和全面调试阶段。估计093型可能在2001年上半年就已经下水，同时，由于相关技术基本成熟，0 93首艇的后续型也在施工中。首批3艘2003年可以形成战斗力。
The current 093 started building in 1997, finished frames in 1999, 2000 did something else. It's estimated 093 could be launched in late 2001. (sort of happened if you check huitong's site on this). After the first one, the later 093 is also in construction.
　　正在设计建造中的094型也采用了大量093型的成熟技术。据悉，093型的反应堆、消音瓦、推进机的 技术在世界上都是领先的。其中，使用高温气冷核反应堆的至少10年内将只有中国一家。
094 uses a lot of technology developed from 093. It uses 093's reactor, anechoic tiles and propeller?, they are all world class. China should be the only country using the high temperature gas cooled generator in the next 10 years.
　　值得注意的是，此次中国建造新舰艇一改过去先建首舰，经过反复调试再投入小批量生产的惯例。093型的 后续艇几乎与首艇同时开工，只是在吊装反应堆时进度落后。中国此次如此快马加鞭一来迫于周边形势，二来更主 要的是因为093型的技术比较成熟。高温气冷核反应堆的技术2001年在863计划15周年展览中已经展出 ，介绍文字中特意提及它主要用于军事。此时093型已经下水试航成功。093型的艇体结构为中国独立设计， 并且在部分常规潜艇上作了试验，中国 90年代新潜艇的研制速度并不快，很大程度上是为了保证093型的研究。
One thing of note is that China has a habit of limited production and repeated changes. The construction of the 2nd 093 almost started at the same time as the first, but it took much longer to construct. 093's hull uses pure Chinese design. The research on SSK in 90s wasn't really fast, a major reason is due to the emphasis put on 093's research.
　　美国军方对于093型的研制进度究竟掌握到何种程度尚不得而知，但是北约已经迫不及待地将其命名为“清 ”级。1997年时五角大楼曾经对外公布过他们掌握的093型研制情况，但当时美国人尚不了解在90年代中 期093型的研制已经有了很大变动。根据五角大楼的说法，093型仍然采用压水堆。1999年美国人才知道 中国的高温气冷核反应堆技术取得世界领先，并一度以为093型已经下水，这导致美国攻击俄罗斯向中国转让了 核潜艇技术和当时的李文和案和考克斯报告，但五角大楼内部认为，这种反应堆技术上难度很大，以中国人的技术 实力使用起来风险很大。
The American intelligence does not have a firm grip on the advancements of 093, but it declared it the Qing class? in 1997, the Pentagon told the state department what they knew about 093's development What they did not know was the progress made on 093 in mid 90s. According to the pentagon, 093 was still using water cooled reactor. The Americans did not realize China's reactor development until 1999 and for one point though 093 already was launched. This prompted USA to attack Russia for transferred SSN technology. The pentagon felt that this type of high temperature reactor's technology difficulty is very high and the fact that China uses it is quite dangerous.
　　中国军方对于093型的进展非常满意。根据海军的看法，这种潜艇的综合实力已经足以对抗洛杉矶改进型了 ，但在噪音、攻击范围和自动化上仍然较海狼和弗吉尼亚落后不少，但093具有的高航速和高潜深已经领先于这 些美国核潜艇。
PLAN is very pleased with 093's progress. According to them, this SSN already matches the performance of Improved LA class. Its noise level, attack range and automation is still far behind virginia and sea wofl, but its high cruise speed and dive are advantages.
　　093型的噪音水平大约在105-110分贝之间，后续型号可能会有所改??大的动力，093型的水下正常航速提高到35-45节，最大航速有可能突破50节，093正式出世后，将迅速正式打破前苏联47.1节的潜艇水下航速记录 。
Again, this is another place I read about 093's noise level being between 105 and 110 db. (it's actually kind of hard to believe). Anhow, the normal speed for 093 will be between 35 to 45 knots. Once 093 joins service, it will hope to break USSR's submarine submerged speed.
　　093采用单双层混合排布的艇体，双层艇体为主。

Anyhow, a lot of stuff in this article is hard to believe, because it seems an unbelievable change to go from the noise level of 091 to this. I guess we will see if 093 matches anything close to this. I do believe that 093 have the reactor talked about in this article though.


If you can read Chinese, they have a discussion on this on war-sky:
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/read.ph...02&keyword=093

[Sea Dog]

Very interesting. I'd like to learn more about how a high-temperature gas cooled reactor works. I can see how it would give you higher efficiency and a faster submerged speed, but how would it improve noise levels? Unless there are less moving parts incorporated into the system.

[darth sidious]

no need for large coolent pumps on the experimental reactor built the pump can be turned off for several hours without risk of explosion

[Sea Dog]

Originally Posted by darth sidious

no need for large coolent pumps on the experimental reactor built the pump can be turned off for several hours without risk of explosion

So it operates similar to a natural circulation type pump. At least that's what it sounds like to me. When "driving" the reactor to increase your underwater velocity, would the pumps need to be on? If not, how would the temperature of the reactor be regulated?