China Coast Guard and Patrol vessels

guys, please stay on topic.

Originally Posted by ChinaGuy

Investors from nations who do not spray water on Chinese ships have nothing to worry about. Why would anyone be dumb enough to invest in a country and then go pick a fight with them ?

That would be a poor kneejerk reaction. Confiscating anything would be pretty much the final straw where declaration of war is imminent. Think about this, you say investors from nations who don't spray water don't need to worry. But they will because in their minds, what security is there in their investments should they somehow offend China? No, in times like these, you ensure security and protection of every country's assets and nationals, despite the dispute. In turn, Japan will need to do the same for Chinese investments and nationals in Japan. Should they fail to do so, it only shifts world opinion in China's favor.

But back on topic, arming the CG vessels with water cannons provides a tit-for-tat response credibility. No bullets fired, no warrant for bully accusations.

Back to topic, considering the close to 20 large cutters CMS will filed next year or two, it's clear that it's favored by the Chinese leadership to become the core of a future unified Coast Guard. With 5000t cutters, 6000t ocean rescue ships, and 20,000t replenishment ships, the future Coast Guard is poised to become the largest maritime law enforcement agency in the world. Maybe then they will have enough assets to provide 24/7 patrol coverage of all disputed regions.

Originally Posted by hmmwv

Back to topic, considering the close to 20 large cutters CMS will filed next year or two, it's clear that it's favored by the Chinese leadership to become the core of a future unified Coast Guard. With 5000t cutters, 6000t ocean rescue ships, and 20,000t replenishment ships, the future Coast Guard is poised to become the largest maritime law enforcement agency in the world. Maybe then they will have enough assets to provide 24/7 patrol coverage of all disputed regions.

Do you have any sources that specifically says China will be deploying 5000t and 6000t ships in the coast guard?

For sure China can effectively patrol its sees.. But that will also alarm its neighbors. Would that possibly led to a shooting war?

Originally Posted by Delbert

Do you have any sources that specifically says China will be deploying 5000t and 6000t ships in the coast guard?

For sure China can effectively patrol its sees.. But that will also alarm its neighbors. Would that possibly led to a shooting war?

It's the weapon systems that count. As long as China doesn't put hilariously devastating weapons on their coast guard vessels, having 6000t ships is entirely justifiable.

Originally Posted by jobjed

It's the weapon systems that count. As long as China doesn't put hilariously devastating weapons on their coast guard vessels, having 6000t ships is entirely justifiable.

Aren't Coast Guard vessels also armed with CIWS?

Originally Posted by Delbert

Aren't Coast Guard vessels also armed with CIWS?

Are you referring to the USCG? They actually augment the US Navy if called upon. Is there such a plan or org chart hierarchy for Chinese CG units?

Originally Posted by Delbert

For sure China can effectively patrol its sees.. But that will also alarm its neighbors. Would that possibly led to a shooting war?

China patrolling it's own seas will cause others to start shooting ? How come and who are these people wanting to shoot ? Following the Korean war, it was established US will not infringe upon China's territory. Nor will they touch China's buffer states. With the US out of the running, who else wants to shoot at Chinese ships ?

In the news recently, it was stated flotillas of Chinese CG-equivalent ships were patrolling China's territory in the east. There were no incidents of shooting, even with a water cannon. So we can safely assume the shooting won't be coming from the east-ly direction. The Chinese were confident of this and stated they will make such patrols a regular event.

Originally Posted by ChinaGuy

China patrolling it's own seas will cause others to start shooting ? How come and who are these people wanting to shoot ? Following the Korean war, it was established US will not infringe upon China's territory. Nor will they touch China's buffer states. With the US out of the running, who else wants to shoot at Chinese ships ?

In the news recently, it was stated flotillas of Chinese CG-equivalent ships were patrolling China's territory in the east. There were no incidents of shooting, even with a water cannon. So we can safely assume the shooting won't be coming from the east-ly direction. The Chinese were confident of this and stated they will make such patrols a regular event.

First off, I admired your patrotic stands and your confidence in the Chinese Navy or Army or Airforce or all three branches. However there is an old Chinese saying that roughly translate to, "A proud army will be defeated."

So lets see how this saying translated to our current situation.

1) Your words make it sound that US are afraid of China... let me tell you this... this is nothing but a total fantasy, why? The US, even in current economic crisis is still the strongest military in the world (like it or not), why they do not want to get too deep into things was mainly out of political reasons and that they do not want to be dragged down by a war with another nuclear state. However, what the US could do and will do was to supply whatever weapons and equipments to those countries that will oppose US 'enemy'.

2) As to the argument with China territory, well... there are some pretty clear cut areas that are consider China, and there are others that are highly disputed... especially those from the South China Sea. Well... for those clear cut areas, US will have no reason or motivation to touch or infringe (if you will). However those disputed area (especially those area that are resource rich or had control of vital shipping routes), you will be damn sure that the US will do their very best to help their 'ally'. They might not want to stay an all out war, but they might want everything to maintain its current position, whereby the Chinese although claiming those areas as theirs, are not going to get in in force.

3) China had sent in flotillas of Chinese CG equivalent ships to patrol CHina territory, and if those territory falls under clear cut CHinese jurisdiction, of course no one will fire water cannon at those areas, that is common sense and had nothing to do with people being afraid or unwilling to do anything. Next, in those disputed area - namely the Diaoyutai, I do not think that the Japanese are afraid or what, and from their own sources, they had not encounter the Chinese CG yet...

Both Japan and China are playing a staring game now and up till now, no one had blink, it is not because Japan is weak or what, or CHinese are stronger or what, it is just that no one wanted to back down and no one wanted a war too... and also just in case this term is being thrown out... "THERE IS NO CHINESE CHARACTERISTICS HERE" it is just a political game.

Ok... I know this is OT... but I just couldn't resist but came in to comment.

Originally Posted by Delbert

Do you have any sources that specifically says China will be deploying 5000t and 6000t ships in the coast guard?

For sure China can effectively patrol its sees.. But that will also alarm its neighbors. Would that possibly led to a shooting war?

It's the future Coast Guard which is suppose to integrate all five branches of the current maritime law enforcement arrangement. Which means the 5000t MSA01 cutter to be delivered next year will be included in them, and those 6000t CRS ships will be included as well. Whether the future coast guard will equip more dedicated large displacement cutters is unknown right now.

USA surely wont be afraid.. But I don't think they've would want a war with a nuclear armed state.. Don't forget China might have Russia on their side in an event of a war with USA. It will be their best opportunity to bring down USA.

So in my opinion, I don't think USA would ever risk a full scale war with China.

The shooting war I am referring to was IF and ONLY IF Chinese CG would patrol DiaoYuTai on a regular basis. How would Japan react?

Originally Posted by Delbert

USA surely wont be afraid.. But I don't think they've would want a war with a nuclear armed state.. Don't forget China might have Russia on their side in an event of a war with USA. It will be their best opportunity to bring down USA.

So in my opinion, I don't think USA would ever risk a full scale war with China.

The shooting war I am referring to was IF and ONLY IF Chinese CG would patrol DiaoYuTai on a regular basis. How would Japan react?

No. China will not have Russia on their side, no one can have Russia on their side, look at it this way, during Korean War, when both China and North Korea are Russia's allies, the Russian did not really participate. In Vietnam War and subsequent Sino-Vietnam war, the Russian did not really participate too, other than provide weapons (for a price) to their ally.

In the event of a war (if there is one) of China with US and her ally, you can be sure that China will be alone in this one.

Anyway, you are correct to say that US would not want to go into an all out war with a nuclear armed state. Because desperate people would do desperate thing... so it is up to your imagination what China will do when she was on the verge of being defeated.

As to the scenario of Chinese CG patrolling the Diaoyutai water on regular basis, I believe the Japanese will not really react too much, not that they are afraid or what, they might make a few compliants, show some angry faces and the such, but will not really do anything, except, maybe spray water at intruding fishermen or CG.

Things will go haywire only if either side land on Diaoyutai and started building some permanent structures.

Originally Posted by rhino123

No. China will not have Russia on their side, no one can have Russia on their side, look at it this way, during Korean War, when both China and North Korea are Russia's allies, the Russian did not really participate. In Vietnam War and subsequent Sino-Vietnam war, the Russian did not really participate too, other than provide weapons (for a price) to their ally.

In the event of a war (if there is one) of China with US and her ally, you can be sure that China will be alone in this one.

I think during the cold war era its a different scenario.. China wasn't really on an all out war. So no reason for the Soviets to launch a full scale war. They won't risk that too.. But they did provide China aircover by sending MIG-15's and their pilots, of which at that time China still has no airforce.

But I think this time would be different if China and USA was on a ALL OUT WAR...

Originally Posted by Delbert

Chinese CG would patrol DiaoYuTai on a regular basis.

They are and will. Although the western media won't tell you about it because it would be too embarrassing. When China say they will do this or that patrol regularly, then they will. It is what's known as a patrol with Chinese characteristics.

Originally Posted by Delbert

USA surely wont be afraid.. But I don't think they've would want a war with a nuclear armed state..

Then, they are afraid.

On the other hand, China demonstrated in the past they are not afraid of a war with a nuclear armed state. Just to make sure people got the message, they did it more than once and with different nuclear armed states. The art of war just cannot be beaten, not even with nuclear bombs.