All About The Chinese Aircraft Carrier Thread

[DPRKPTboat]

"the planed airwing of China's carrier is comprised of navalized Shenyang J-11 and Chengdu J-10 fighters, plus Kamov helicopters for ASW or AEW missions."

I agree. The Su-33 would be very expensive to China. IF it wanted to equip the Varyag with all those fighters, as well as its future Carrier fleet, the PLAN would be spending a lot of money. Using indigenous fighters is much cheaper, so it makes more sense that way. As for the helicopters, they will definetly all be Kamovs. They are the most cpable Naval copter China has, and are more sutinable for a carrier thna indigenous Chinese designs.

[Sczepan]

there are three different kinds of carriers, chinese naval ingeneers studied - and which could be new build by using the so made blue prints; each of this different designs could be used for different purposes:

a) Varjag:
This ship really could be the first operational "trainee-carrier"

[Sczepan]

(sorry for double-posting, but it dont accept to much images)
b) Kiew and Minsk:
China was becoming a major trading power and would become increasingly dependent on secure sea lanes to carry its imports of energy and raw materials and exports of manufactured goods.
That aircraft carriers would give the navy the ability to keep these sea lanes open in times of conflict or international tension.
The design is perfect to escort and protect a fleet, also by using a number of Kamov Ka-25 -28 Helix and KA-31 naval helicopters.
• Power Plant: 4 shaft geared steam turbines, 140,000 horse power (could be replaced by other engines)
• Length: 273,1 m overall
• Displacement: 42,000 tons full load
• Speed: 32 knots (60 km/h)
• Armament: 4 x SN12 SSM (24 missiles), 2 x SAN3 SAM (72 missiles), 2 x SAN4 SAM, (40 missiles), 4 76mm guns (2x2), 8 x 30mm gatling guns, 10 x 533mm torpedo tubes, 1 x SUW ASW mortar
(could be replaced by modernised Armaments)
• Aircraft: 32

[Sczepan]

c) Melbourne:
In my opinion its a very good basic carrier to be re-designed and used as amphibious carrier - and it could be new build, including new modern engines, by chinese yards
(the dates ar given by the origin design)
• Propulsion: Steam turbines, 4 boilers, 2 shafts, 40,000 hp, 24.5 knots (should become new engines)
• Dimensions: 630 x 80 x 25 feet/192 x 24.4 x 7.6 meters
• Displacement: 20,320 tons full load
• Extreme Dimensions: 695 x 126 x 25 feet/211.8 x 38.4 x 7.6 meters
• Aircraft: ca. 30


also by using a fleet of attack- and transport-helos like the WZ-9, WZ-10, Mi-24 Hind and Z-8



and some ground attack- and trainee planes like the L-15 advanced lead-in trainer (LIFT) by using the catapulte http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/trainer/l15.asp

[DPRKPTboat]

As i said on the the latest pics thread, comissioning the Varyag would probably take as long as it took for the Kuszetnov. If we know how long it took to get that carrier operational, we may be able toget some idea as to when the Varyag will go to sea. I'm also not to sure about the Melbourne - a western carrier design would be useful to the PLAN, but it is a dated design and I think China would prefer a more up-to-date craft. At the monet, I think the primary focus of China's aircraft carrier programme is the Varyag.

[FuManChu]

Thanks for the info on possible designs. Personally I think b) is never going to be the case, as a hybrid carrier isn't really viable (or desirable). The Japanese tried them in WWII and they were a flop. China wants a full carrier if it wants one at all. The question is whether it wants one just for jets or more of an LPH.

Personally I think Varyag would be a trainer.

[Sczepan]

Originally Posted by FuManChu

Thanks for the info on possible designs. ....

you'r welcome, its only a result of an 6 yrs old information:

China to Build Aircraft Carriers
Navy News; Undersea Technology
August 23, 1999

China has committed advanced funding to commence construction of its first carrier in 2001, United States intelligence community officials now confirm.

This, they say, appears to be the start of a program to build a whole class of carriers.

And it's much cheaper to rebuild out from a proofed and working design.

Originally Posted by FuManChu

....China wants a full carrier if it wants one at all. The question is whether it wants one just for jets or more of an LPH.

Personally I think Varyag would be a trainer.

Personally I think, China isn't ready to construct a full carrier (like the US have) without experience in carrier-operations, so the Varyag could be a trainer.

Originally Posted by DPRKPTboat

..... I'm also not to sure about the Melbourne - a western carrier design would be useful to the PLAN, but it is a dated design and I think China would prefer a more up-to-date craft. At the monet, I think the primary focus of China's aircraft carrier programme is the Varyag.

The need of PLAN amphibious fleet is air support - by helos and ground attack planes. We talked in the old forum about this. And about the "dated design" - the first job of the ship is to transport and launch planes and/or helos - so much as possible - about long distances in a small time. The secound job is to repair these planes and/or helos, the third job (not necessary) ist to transport Marines - not necessary, because transport-ships like Nankang (Qiongsha) class or ferrys could to these job to.
Not the airport is important - it's the planes, who decisives the battles.
Compared to USS Gualdalcanal (11.000 ts), brit. Invincible (16.860 ts), , thai. Chakrinarruebet (11.370 ts) or italy Giuseppe Garibaldi (10.100 ts) a Melbourne (16.000 ts) based re-design could be a nice toy to work with.

[Eurofighter]

Originally Posted by sumdud

I know China are getting 2 more Sovs and that they are getting DDG 180 and 181, but a 3rd 52C?!

wow, 2 more sovs in addition to the four sovs they will have soon?? I really like to see this confirmed. And by the way, what are DDG 180 and 181?

but why sovs? PLAN should just build 4 more 052Cs right away, and then moving on to an even more advanced design...

[Sczepan]

(Japan Economic Newswire Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)
HONG KONG, March 10_(Kyodo) _

China to build aircraft carrier to develop navy fleet:

The Chinese military is currently planning to build an aircraft carrier, a
pro-Beijing daily in Hong Kong reported Friday.

"The Chinese army will conduct research and build an aircraft carrier and
develop our own aircraft carrier fleet," People's Liberation Army Lt. Gen.
Wang Zhiyuan was quoted as saying in the Chinese-language Wen Wei Po. "An
aircraft carrier is a very important tool for big countries defending their
interests in the sea. China is a big country with a long shoreline. An
aircraft carrier is necessary to defend our interests in the sea," he said.
It would be China's first aircraft carrier and would likely be deployed to
join other warships currently in the South China Sea, the newspaper said.
Wang said the carrier fleet will not be complete for another three to five
years.

The newspaper said aircraft fit for the carrier and auxiliary warships and
submarines are either being built or completed. It also quoted sources as
saying China may deploy its aircraft carrier fleet near the energy fuel
supply route in South China Sea where warships are now being deployed. The
barriers for China to build its own aircraft carrier include technology
advancement, hardware and software support, building and maintenance costs
and political pressure from overseas over China's becoming a military threat
in the region, the newspaper reported.

[bd popeye]

Refering to the article..Humm? this is intresting. This is the first time I have ever read that the PLA was admidting to developing a CVBG. Not some news source or a rumor. But a general. Well we will just have to wait and see.

Sczepan, could you please post a link for that story? Thanks!!

[FuManChu]

Pop, the original link on the Kyodo news page is now archived, so you can't look at it unless you have a subscription. But the article title does appear. There is also a link to the Chinese article in question here:

http://tinyurl.com/o4jwp

[Sczepan]

Originally Posted by bd popeye

....

Sczepan, could you please post a link for that story? Thanks!!

see also http://www.marinetimes.com/story.php...25-1590111.php

[Sczepan]

Originally Posted by Sczepan

(Japan Economic Newswire Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)
HONG KONG, March 10_(Kyodo) _

Originally Posted by bd popeye

Refering to the article..Humm? this is intresting. ...Not some news source or a rumor. But a general.

according to CDF, Wang Zhiyuan, talking up the carrier isn't just any old PLA general. He is the eldest son of Wang Daohan, the late head of the ARATS, Shanghai elder statesman, and widely regarded as the mentor to Jiang Zemin.

[kevin JJW]

China Secretly Constructing an Aircraft Carrier(54planes,13choppers,deployment in 2008)
Chosun Ilbo ^ | 06/30/05 | Song Ui-dal

Posted on 06/29/2005 5:33:55 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

/begin my translation

China Secretly Constructing an Aircraft Carrier

Hong Kong Economic Daily(Jing-ji-ri-bao) reports
2005/06/30

China recently completed the final design for an Chinese aircraft carrier, and start in early August to construct it in secret at Jiang-nan Shipyard, Zhang-xing Island near Shanghai, reported the June 29th issue of Hong Kong Economic Daily(Jing-ji-ri-bao,) quoting (Chinese) high-level military sources.

Costing 3 billion yuan(390 million dollars), which takes up 3% of Chinese military budget, this carrier, due to be completed next year if everything goes well, has top speed 30 knots per hour and its maximal displacement is 78,000 ton. It is equipped with Russian engines and radars.

It will carry 54 fighter planes and 13 anti-submarine helicopters, and the introduction of latest Russian fighters(Su-33) is also in the works. When it would be in service in 2008, it is expected to boost Chinese naval strength.

The paper reports, "Zhang Guang-qin, vice minister of the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense, denied the rumor that a carrier is under construction. However, he emphasized it is the sacred duty of the Chinese navy to safeguard the country's sovereignty of territorial waters. It is in this context which they go for the construction of the carrier."

(Song Ui-dal, reporting from Hong Kong)

/end my translation
AUG 27 1999

Beijing okays building of two aircraft carriers

HONGKONG -- China has approved the construction of two aircraft carriers to counter the US' naval presence in the region, it was reported here yesterday. The Chinese Communist Party Central Committee and the State Council or Cabinet have earmarked an initial fund of 250 million yuan (S$52 million) for the design and work on the construction of a 250,000-tonne aircraft carrier and a smaller 30,000-tonne vessel, the independent Sun newspaper said, quoting unidentified sources.

Both carriers were to be completed by 2009, the paper said, adding that Beijing approved the plans following the presence of the US 7th fleet in the Taiwan Strait in 1996 following Chinese wargames.

The design and construction of the aircraft carriers would be handled by 12 units, including China Military Science Academy, Shanghai Vessel Research Academy and Xi'an Aircraft Manufacturing Company, the report said.

Meanwhile, the Beijing-funded China Business Times said any Chinese military action against Taiwan would depend on the position of its next President on the "two-states" theory and Taiwan's participation in the US-led Theatre Missile Defence (TMD) system.

The South China Morning Post said it was the first time a Chinese publication has stated explicitly that the Beijing leadership would wait until the outcome of the presidential elections in March before deciding whether to take military action against the island.

The Chinese newspaper said it was "likely that China will take speedy military action" if the winner of the election "persists with the 'two-states' theory" or supports Taiwan in joining the TMD project. -- AFP

Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.
Also See:

China Commits To Carrier Construction With Daunting Aircraft, Navy News, Undersea Technology, 08/23/99 (Chinese Military, Navy)

All,
If you want to learn more see the:

[AssassinsMace]

Hmmm... 2008! Some of these articles are old but it seems that we'll being seeing a lot of interesting things to come around 2008. The next Shenzhou launch will be delayed a year speculated by the nay-sayers that China is having difficulties in their space program. But more likely China is planning a show for 2008 to coincide with the Olympics. Maybe the world will see a formation of J-XX do a fly-by over the National Stadium during the opening ceremonies. One can only hope.