All About The Chinese Aircraft Carrier Thread

[jatt]

U.S. carriers are only for defense?!, Id think not, the carriers symbolizes the true power of the US navy. Aircraft carriers are made for attack not for defense just like nuclear weapons. The carrier has been for ever a super war machine with many capabilities. Can you tell me why U.S. carriers are in the middle east if they are for defense? Sorry for the of topic just trying to make a point here.
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They are built to do both. Why do you think a Hornet carrys Harpoons? And besides the best defence is a good offence.

[Sczepan]

Originally Posted by swimmerXC

I think if we donate enough money together we can save up for the Minsk Aircraft Carrier...
After all, all we have to raise is $16,000,000 USD..
...
Source

Casino ehh...

it's only my personal opinion - trade routs at sea becoming more and more important for China
this Kiew- and Minsk-type could be a nice toy to save and escort trading ships like tankers ..... or to escort a navy fleet .....

[renmin]

Check this out, this is China's design concept for their future carrier fighter, looks too me like an improved J-10
this is the site
http://mil.eastday.com/eastday/mil/n...ai1208605.html

China's future carrier? PS: those planes arnt JSFs they are the plane you saw above
http://blogmark.blogchina.com/link/316319

[PLABUDDY]

Originally Posted by renmin

Check this out, this is China's design concept for their future carrier fighter, looks too me like an improved J-10
this is the site
http://mil.eastday.com/eastday/mil/n...ai1208605.html

China's future carrier? PS: those planes arnt JSFs they are the plane you saw above
http://blogmark.blogchina.com/link/316319

The proposed CV appears to be European designed. We've posted the same pic in the old ezboard forum before. I doubt the first PLAN CV would look like the one in the pic.

[FuManChu]

Originally Posted by PLABUDDY

The proposed CV appears to be European designed. We've posted the same pic in the old ezboard forum before. I doubt the first PLAN CV would look like the one in the pic.

Well said, buddy - thanks for pointing that out to us new guys.

I think we've got a case of idle day-dreaming, again. Much like the pictures of the Korean aircraft carrier.

[Tootenhamon]

I think that the vision of future carrier You posted is realy a vision of United Kingdom's future Queen Elizabeth carriers. They will build at least two of them, each one will carry an air wing composed of 45 F-35 JSF and helos. In visions of BAE this carrier is usually presented in black, but seems that someone made in other colors.

And to the point, i think, that the first Chinese aircraft carriers, if nuclear, will be something like French "Charles de Gaule" carrier. Similar wing to Queen Elizabeth, but with Rafale M aircrafts as multirole fighters, definately better than vertically launched F-35 (in my opinnion of course). Rafale seems in many aspects similar to J-10 fighter. Than, when China will already have two such carriers, nuclear proppled, China can get building something like ex-Soviet Oriel or Ulyanovsk class. I presume that you know, that these carriers were as big as Nimitz class (or even bigger than first one). With three such ships PLAN will be able to hold it's place in blue-water doctrine. What to do with Varyag? Training carrier i think, and later when first light nuclear carriers will go commisioned, make it a CVL or at least CVE.

And at the end, sory for mistakes i made, i am still not familiar with this language. Don't be cruel, this was my first post

[bd popeye]

And to the point, i think, that the first Chinese aircraft carriers, if nuclear, will be something like French "Charles de Gaule" carrier. Similar wing to Queen Elizabeth, but with Rafale M aircrafts as multirole fighters, definately better than vertically launched F-35 (in my opinnion of course). Rafale seems in many aspects similar to J-10 fighter. Than, when China will already have two such carriers, nuclear proppled, China can get building something like ex-Soviet Oriel or Ulyanovsk class. I presume that you know, that these carriers were as big as Nimitz class (or even bigger than first one). With three such ships PLAN will be able to hold it's place in blue-water doctrine. What to do with Varyag? Training carrier i think, and later when first light nuclear carriers will go commisioned, make it a CVL or at least CVE.

China's going to build not one but two nuclear CVN's? Just when will this happen? It takes the USN 7 years total to build a CVN and three years to train it's crew and "work the bugs" out of the ship.

The USS Nimitz is 95,000 tons displacement. Orel was to be about 80,000.

http://www.nol.navy.mil/homepages/cvn68/main.htm

Rafele M better than a F-35 JSF? Which version? I assume you mean the Navalized version. In what ways do you think a Rafale M better than a F-35?
How is the PLAN going to aquire the Rafele M when there is an arms embargo by the EU?

[Tootenhamon]

Hey, that was just my idea, i din't say that China is going to build two or more carriers. I said what i think about future increase in PLAN, not what will hapen.

USS Nimitz now has 95.000 tons displacement, but at the begining, before it's modernisations, it was lighter than now (or someone is giving me incorrect intel). And yes, Orel was to displace 80.000 tons, but i think that when it would be already built, it would have some more with full load, and it would have similar displacement to Nimitz.

I think that Rafale M is at least as good as F-35. Even the americans themselves have considered F-35 as less capable than newest versions of Su-30 fighters. Rafale M is today one of the best sea-fighters ever made (in my opinion) because its made with air fighting from the beginning, multirole fighting is a secondary task (but Rafale is still capable of taking preety much air-surface weaponry). F-35 is a multirole-only. That's what i think.

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by Tootenhamon

Hey, that was just my idea, i din't say that China is going to build two or more carriers. I said what i think about future increase in PLAN, not what will hapen.

USS Nimitz now has 95.000 tons displacement, but at the begining, before it's modernisations, it was lighter than now (or someone is giving me incorrect intel). And yes, Orel was to displace 80.000 tons, but i think that when it would be already built, it would have some more with full load, and it would have similar displacement to Nimitz.

I think that Rafale M is at least as good as F-35. Even the americans themselves have considered F-35 as less capable than newest versions of Su-30 fighters. Rafale M is today one of the best sea-fighters ever made (in my opinion) because its made with air fighting from the beginning, multirole fighting is a secondary task (but Rafale is still capable of taking preety much air-surface weaponry). F-35 is a multirole-only. That's what i think.

Thanks for your responses. You did well.

The weight of the Nimitz is not important really. When the old Soviet Union fell apart so did much of it's military . Thus the Soviet CVN was scrapped although 45% complete. Since that time 15 years ago the Russians have not made any ambitions to build another carrier.

I really can't compare R-M to an F-35. The F-35 is not yet assigned to an operational squadron. That won't happen for 3+ years. So we will have to wait to see what the real capablities of that aircraft is. To me right now it is similar to the F-18 in that it is a jack of all trades and master of none aircraft.

You are saying that a Rafale is better than any sea-fighter ever? Better than a F-14?..really...

[IDonT]

Originally Posted by Tootenhamon

I think that the vision of future carrier You posted is realy a vision of United Kingdom's future Queen Elizabeth carriers. They will build at least two of them, each one will carry an air wing composed of 45 F-35 JSF and helos. In visions of BAE this carrier is usually presented in black, but seems that someone made in other colors.

And to the point, i think, that the first Chinese aircraft carriers, if nuclear, will be something like French "Charles de Gaule" carrier. Similar wing to Queen Elizabeth, but with Rafale M aircrafts as multirole fighters, definately better than vertically launched F-35 (in my opinnion of course). Rafale seems in many aspects similar to J-10 fighter. Than, when China will already have two such carriers, nuclear proppled, China can get building something like ex-Soviet Oriel or Ulyanovsk class. I presume that you know, that these carriers were as big as Nimitz class (or even bigger than first one). With three such ships PLAN will be able to hold it's place in blue-water doctrine. What to do with Varyag? Training carrier i think, and later when first light nuclear carriers will go commisioned, make it a CVL or at least CVE.

And at the end, sory for mistakes i made, i am still not familiar with this language. Don't be cruel, this was my first post

The F-35 will come in 3 different versions: conventional, carrier borne, and VSTOL.


Rafale is not better, in fact, I would argue that it is inferior. Why? Higher radar cross section and lacking AESA radars. The Superbug with its new AESA radar is much more flexible.

[Totoro]

Originally Posted by bd popeye

You are saying that a Rafale is better than any sea-fighter ever? Better than a F-14?..really...

I'm pretty sure Rafale could hold its own against a f-14 in bvr engagement. If it somehow got to dogfight range, i'd definitely prefer to be riding in Rafale than in f-14. F-14 was basically first of its generation, ahead of the time, but it's over 30 years old now, time has caught up with it. Decision to retire it was pretty justified i'd think, as the superbug with newest avionics can do a better job at air superiority than f-14 could in its last days. (sure, if tomcat too got newest tech gizmoes it'd probably still be good for bvr engagements but it just wouldn't have been cost efficient to do it.)

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by Totoro

I'm pretty sure Rafale could hold its own against a f-14 in bvr engagement. If it somehow got to dogfight range, i'd definitely prefer to be riding in Rafale than in f-14. F-14 was basically first of its generation, ahead of the time, but it's over 30 years old now, time has caught up with it. Decision to retire it was pretty justified i'd think, as the superbug with newest avionics can do a better job at air superiority than f-14 could in its last days. (sure, if tomcat too got newest tech gizmoes it'd probably still be good for bvr engagements but it just wouldn't have been cost efficient to do it.)

So true that the Tomcat was ahead of it's time. The Tomcat just has a supereior dogfighting record espically when it was used by the Iranians.

[PLABUDDY]

We're getting off topic here. Anyways...I've been searching the internet and could not find any new Varyag pictures. As for the first chinese aircraft carrier, I strongly believe that Varyag will be it. I'm not sure about Minsk/Kiev as they are older designs.

[DPRKPTboat]

I doubt the minsk and Kiev will be commisioned at all. Whereas with the Varyag there's plenty of evidence that it will be reactivated, there hasn't been much activity with the other two, no news as to what the Chinese are planning to do with them.

[renmin]

Im not sure about minsk, but the contract of China purchasing Kiev from Russia, the russians stated that after researching the carrier, it is to be scrapped. China is forbidden to comission the Kiev as their own carrier. The contract was renogatiated so that the Kiev would become a tourist attraction at the Beiyang Recreation Harbor. the planed airwing of China's carrier is comprised of navalized Shenyang J-11 and Chengdu J-10 fighters, plus Kamov helicopters for ASW or AEW missions.