All About The Chinese Aircraft Carrier Thread

[chinggis]

Hi all!
Can anyone finde other carriers what they buy? I mean Minsk and Kiev. Minsk must be in Shenzhen, and Kiev in Tianjin. But when I try to finde them with Google Earth I am not see them in this places.
Thx

[Sczepan]

voala - Kiew, Minsk and Varyag by google earth
Source: http://www.varyagworld.com/

The Kiew is in a closed aerea now - the pool is closed by seawall, so the old lady will never go to sea in the future (you see the coordinates)
Minsk is near the Shenzhen container terminal at 22'33'18.73 N and 114'14'13.79 E,
Varyag - the coordinates ar at the pic ...
regards

[piechap]

This is in response to the discussions in the professional forum regarding the engine instalation in the Varyag. It may also be applicable here.The answer may be evident by visiting. www.varyagworld.com and visiting galleries 2002-2005 from lh top go to sixth photo. A some what large aperture in the starboard side of the Varyag behind the Island. could be the lift that popeye refers to they also have a large crane like unit forward of the island leaning against the hull. This is all before the paint job.

[tphuang]

more photos, this is from gordonblade

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by piechap

This is in response to the discussions in the professional forum regarding the engine instalation in the Varyag. It may also be applicable here.The answer may be evident by visiting. www.varyagworld.com and visiting galleries 2002-2005 from lh top go to sixth photo. A some what large aperture in the starboard side of the Varyag behind the Island. could be the lift that popeye refers to they also have a large crane like unit forward of the island leaning against the hull. This is all before the paint job.

piechap, I do not think that is a crane or lift for any sort of engine instalation. it is probally a conveyour to move parts, equipment etc to and from the ship. The USN uses a similar device.

[Jeff Head]

Originally Posted by tphuang

some picture of Varyag found on CDF.

tphuang, here's a very recent pic of CVN-77 after it was just floated.

Note the waterline...how high the carrier is sitting in the water, with just the top of the bulbous bow showing. In terms of where the vessel sits in the water...does it look similair (in terms of waterline) to the pics you posted of the VAryag

This is CVN-77 with engines installed, but no aircraft, no ballast, no crew, etc. Gives some interesting perspective.

[maozedong]

发表时间： 2006-11-16 12:12:55



美日震惊的特大消息:中国批量生产新型重型发动机 中国航母的"中国心"



美日震惊的特大消息:中国批量生产新型重型发动机 中国航母的"中国心"R0110燃气轮机



重型燃气轮机是洁净高效发电的重大动力机械装备，微型燃气轮机是分布式供能系统的核心装备。“十五”期间， 燃气轮机重大专项设立了重型燃气轮机和微型燃气轮机两个研制项目。沈阳黎明航空发动机集团、哈尔滨东安发动 机集团等大型国有企业，联合清华大学、中科院工程热物理所、中国燃气涡轮研究院等科研单位，以产学研合作方 式，开展联合攻关。



通过重型燃气轮机的研发，初步形成了自主设计和制造重型燃气轮机的能力，带动了材料，先进制造等领域的创新 。11万千瓦重型燃气轮机填补了有自主知识产权重型燃气轮机的空白，并具有明确的产业化前景。



通过100千瓦级微型燃气轮机的研发，培养了独立研发微型燃气轮机及其热电联供系统关键技术和产品的队伍， 使我国成为了掌握微型燃气轮机设计，制造技术并具有成套能力的国家。



美国尼米兹级航空母舰的发动机总功率是19.4万千瓦，单论功率来说R0110完全可以作为"瓦良格"航母 的动力。



这标志着我国舰用燃气轮机又向前迈了一大步。接下来服役的大型军舰上将有可能装备我们自己研发的燃气轮机， 我们的军舰将不用再依靠进口外国的燃气轮机


现在现在中国海军将大量为各类军舰安装新型重型发动机 中国舰队的"中国心"成为强大海军的"钢铁心脏"

目前正在为"瓦良格航空母舰"最后动力调试,预计2007年初交付中国海军

this source from chinese websit http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn
the souce claim that china successful researched new engine-typ RO110 for carrier Vayaga.
any body can translate this report?

[Sczepan]

rumour time again: unsure:
http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/bbs/200.../12139414.html

compuered translation of above post

>>China's major sources : the United States and Japan shocked the mass production of a new heavy-duty motor carrier China "Chinese heart."



美日震惊的特大消息:中国批量生产新型重型发动机 中国航母的"中国心"R0110燃气轮机U.S.-Japan shocked by the serious news : Chinese carrier China's mass production of a new heavy-duty engine "Chinese heart" R0110 GT



重型燃气轮机是洁净高效发电的重大动力机械装备，微型燃气轮机是分布式供能系统的核心装备。H eavy duty gas turbine power generation efficiency is a major driving force for cleaner machinery and equipment. Distributed Energy micro-gas turbine system is the core. “十五”期间，燃气轮机重大专项设立了重型燃气轮机和微型燃气轮机两个研制项目。"10th Five-Year Plan" period, a heavy-duty gas turbine major project to set up two gas turbines and micro gas turbine research project. 沈阳黎明航空发动机集团、哈尔滨东安发动机集团等大型国有企业，联合清华大学、中科院工程热物理所、中国燃 气涡轮研究院等科研单位，以产学研合作方式，开展联合攻关。Shenyang Liming Aero-Engine Group, Harbin Dongan Engine Group, a large state-owned enterprises, joint Qinghua University. Thermal Physics under the Chinese Academy of Sciences project, China's Gas Turbine Research Institute and other research units in industrial studies and scientific research cooperation methods, and conduct joint research.



通过重型燃气轮机的研发，初步形成了自主设计和制造重型燃气轮机的能力，带动了材料，先进制造等领域的创新 。Heavy-duty gas turbine through research and development, initially formed by the ability to independently design and manufacture of heavy-duty gas turbines. led to the materials, advanced manufacturing, and other fields of innovation. 11万千瓦重型燃气轮机填补了有自主知识产权重型燃气轮机的空白，并具有明确的产业化前景。11 heavy-duty gas turbine kilowatts heavy gas turbines filled the gap with its own independent intellectual property rights. and the industry with a clear prospect.



通过100千瓦级微型燃气轮机的研发，培养了独立研发微型燃气轮机及其热电联供系统关键技术和产品的队伍， 使我国成为了掌握微型燃气轮机设计，制造技术并具有成套能力的国家。100 kilowatt-class research and development through micro-gas turbine. develop independent research for micro-gas turbine cogeneration system and its key technologies and product team, made China become the master of micro-gas turbine design, manufacturing technology and has set capabilities.



美国尼米兹级航空母舰的发动机总功率是 19.4万千瓦，单论功率来说R0110完全可以作为"瓦良格"航母的动力。Nimitz-class aircraft carrier the United States is 19.4 million kilowatts of total power of the engine. On power alone can run as R0110, "Vanuatu-pocketed" the carrier force.



这标志着我国舰用燃气轮机又向前迈了一大步。This marks another step in China's marine gas turbine is a big step forward. 接下来服役的大型军舰上将有可能装备我们自己研发的燃气轮机，我们的军舰将不用再依靠进口外国的燃气轮机N ext will likely serve large vessels and equipment developed by our own gas turbine. Our warships will no longer rely on foreign imports of gas turbine


现在现在中国海军将大量为各类军舰安装新型重型发动机 中国舰队的"中国心"成为强大海军的"钢铁心脏"Now the Chinese Navy will now install a large number of new heavy-duty engines for all types of ships in the fleet of China "Chinese heart" into a powerful navy "steel heart"

目前正在为"瓦良格航空母舰"最后动力调试,预计2007年初交付中国海军.Currentl y "Vanuatu-Georgia aircraft carrier" final dynamic testing is expected early in 2007 delivered to the Chinese navy.<<

[maozedong]

Sczepan:thank you for your translation.my English is limited.
however,this is only a sourcs,lets see how the engine development.

[Scratch]

Not sure if it's already discussed in this 42pages long thread. But the Kuznetsov class CVs were originally designed to deploy ASMs (SS-N-19) and AAMs.
How about the Varyag, will they also carry those or similar weapons, or will the PLAN rely on it's carrier escort. And if so, for what purpose will the additional space be used ?

[maozedong]

Originally Posted by Scratch

Not sure if it's already discussed in this 42pages long thread. But the Kuznetsov class CVs were originally designed to deploy ASMs (SS-N-19) and AAMs.
How about the Varyag, will they also carry those or similar weapons, or will the PLAN rely on it's carrier escort. And if so, for what purpose will the additional space be used ?

China seams like put more fighters in the carrier better then put more weapons in the carrier.
in fact,Kuznetsov originally designed was not reasonable,China should progress Vayaga to make more space for putting more fighters on it.
but that dosn't means Vayaga just carry similar weapons,install VSL system is a idea.and this idea already used in world wide carrier built.
even Vayaga equip ASMs and AAMs,it also needs enough escorts for battle.

[BLUEJACKET]

This may be interesting to some (if not all) of us!

China's navy flexing `soft power'

By James Holmes

Thursday, Dec 15, 2005, Page 8

Advertising Chinese leaders are acutely conscious of the sea's importance to their country's economic development and, indirectly, to their political survival. They have come to view defending the sea lanes where merchant ships haul the oil, gas and other raw materials needed to fuel the economy as a vital national interest. China is less and less content to entrust its interests at sea to the uncertain goodwill of the US, its rival for regional pre-eminence and Asia's long-time guardian of maritime security.
Accordingly, China has embarked on an assertive foreign policy in Southeast and South Asia, which adjoin the sea lines of communication connecting Chinese seaports with the Middle East and the Horn of Africa. Its strategy: to build up sea power, measured in ships, bases and alliances. Energizing a populace accustomed to thinking of China as a land power is one crucial element of Beijing's new maritime diplomacy. Allaying fellow Asian nations' suspicions of its motives is another.

Beijing's maritime diplomacy blends the traditional elements of national power -- diplomacy, economics, military force -- in sophisticated fashion. It also makes use of "soft power." Harvard University's Joseph Nye, who coined the term, declares that a country rich in soft power boasts cultural attributes that make its society attractive to foreign peoples -- augmenting the routine tools of foreign policy.

For Nye, such manifestations of culture as movies, clothing and popular music play a role in international affairs, creating an atmosphere of international goodwill -- an affinity between peoples that a country's leaders can use to rally support for their foreign-policy initiatives. Nye worries that the administration of US President George W. Bush squandered US soft power in Iraq, but he assures us that China, traditionally Asia's central power, possesses abundant reserves of it. Chinese leaders agree.

Beijing has conjured up an unlikely ally for its soft-power offensive: Zheng He (鄭和), the Ming Dynasty's legendary eunuch admiral, who set out on the first of seven voyages of trade, diplomacy and commerce exactly six centuries ago. By recounting the feats of China's ancient mariner, Beijing radiates soft power throughout regions whose waters his "treasure fleet" -- so dubbed for the porcelains, silks and other trading goods it carried -- once plied.

Chinese officials cite Zheng's expeditions as a precedent for a strong, seafaring China. Their message: that China's current effort to amass sea power merely represents the latest phase in a benign regional supremacy that benefits all Asian nations.

Zheng's treasure fleet was in effect the first naval squadron stationed in the Indian Ocean by an outside power. Chinese officials play up several aspects of his exploits. First, they remind Chinese citizens and Asian leaders that China has a long heritage as a seagoing nation, despite its more recent preoccupation with land power. Thanks to Zheng, some 30 countries throughout the Southeast and South Asian littorals once acknowledged the Dragon Throne's suzerainty.

Second, Zheng's endeavors allow Beijing to indulge in one-upsmanship at the West's expense. His baochuan (寶船), or treasure ships -- essentially giant seagoing junks -- far outstripped European naval technology of his day. Not only did the baochuan dwarf the ships sailed by the likes of Columbus and da Gama, but they boasted innovations such as incendiary weapons and watertight bulkheads.

Some of these innovations didn't make their way into Western naval architecture for centuries.

Third, Chinese officials point out that Zheng used force only sparingly during his expeditions -- never to conquer territory. His warships crushed a pirate fleet near Malacca -- a boon to all states that depended on free passage of ships through the Strait -- and Chinese marines intervened briefly on Ceylon. Other than that, Zheng was able to establish commercial and diplomatic ties as far afield as Kenya without recourse to arms.

This, say Chinese spokesmen, makes a welcome contrast with Western imperialism: China makes a more trustworthy steward of Asian maritime security than any non-Asian power.

In short, Beijing has used Zheng to fashion a maritime diplomacy that bestows legitimacy on China's seafaring aspirations, mollifies nations skeptical of Chinese pretensions, rouses Chinese nationalism and subtly undercuts the US' standing as the leading maritime power in Asia. As history, Beijing's narrative is dubious -- after all, today's communist regime bears scant resemblance to the Ming Dynasty -- but it is impressive as a use of soft power.

Diplomats and military officers usually think about foreign policy in material terms, scanting the cultural dimension. Washington -- and Taipei -- must heed Nye's advice when thinking about China's bid for sea power.


James Holmes is a senior research associate at the University of Georgia's Center for International Trade and Security in Athens, Georgia.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit.../15/2003284533

http://english.pladaily.com.cn/site2...ent_256353.htm

[mehdi]

Nice find. This concept of soft power is easy to understand what makes me quite unease is the effect on other Asian countries such as Japan and South Korea. They also strive to become regional powers. What about them.

Frankly I don't see Japan sit and let China have it's way around. As for it's impressive as a use of soft power the effect is hardly perceivable, we'll have to wait for that.

Lastly the quote about the Indian Ocean have you been aware of India???

Seems that the author has not a real idea of the regional powers.

[Sczepan]

@ Bluejacket:
thx, thats the reason for my speculations about chinese carriers:

Without some Islands in Myanmar, China have no base to protect the chinese trading fleet in the indic ocean.
But there is an US-base (Diego Garcia) in the middle like a spider in the net.

To protect chinese africa trade (including oil and gas) needs swimming escorts (incl. carriers) - esp. in an Taiwan-conflict. By blockading taiwanese harbours the US could think about blockading the chinese trade lines .... thats without risk now.

[mehdi]

Well Sczepan I completely forgot about the US base of Diego Garcia seems that China will have some tough times ahead of it. First India's rise as a global player with a good military and the bullish presence of American forces Air force as well as naval assets in the Indian Ocean.

By the way if you have Google Earth you can have a nice view of the island and the runway with the B-52 Bombers.