054 Series Frigate Thread 2

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by Kongo

Thanks for making the point. That's exactly why Taiwan cannot sell it's HF-2. Nobody will cut off relations with China over some anti-ship missiles. So it's stupid to point out the lack of HF-2 sales as proof it is inferior.

China has only protested against other people selling to Taiwan in the recent years, not the other way around..
As for exporting, I'm sure it's stupid to dismiss missiles that have been tested and used by many navies around the world for different scenarios. Each of which navy probably found things they like and dislike about the missiles and improved the reliability of the missiles. And I'm sure the Taiwanese are developing a seeker for HF-2 that's better than the seeker on Harpoon and Exocet.

[crobato]

I don't think Taiwan ever wanted to, or intended to have their systems sold for export. The Taiwanese are even more paranoid about secrecy compared to the mainland and show even less. Export provides their own intelligence holes. Its also likely that these weapons are also developed from models and prototypes of other weapons, and whose information is provided under conditions they won't compete with the export models of the partner, like the FCK-1 vs. the F-16. In this case, the HF-2 would be versus the Israeli Gabriel.

This arms thing is off topic.

I like to reiterate to Planeman if he can make an analysis on the radar heights and arcs of the ships so we can compare.

[Kongo]

China has only protested against other people selling to Taiwan in the recent years, not the other way around..

F-5E. Philippines.

[Kongo]

I like to reiterate to Planeman if he can make an analysis on the radar heights and arcs of the ships so we can compare.

Comparing the number of fire control channels would also be a welcome addition.

[crobato]

Originally Posted by Kongo

F-5E. Philippines.

It came with a condition that is not acceptable to China at all.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiw...2/09/17/168350

"In return for the sale, Taiwan is pressing Manila to allow its jets to land in the former US air base at Clark north of the capital because it does not have enough air space to train its pilots. Taiwan's defense ministry was tight-lipped on the negotiations but the sale would most likely anger Beijing."

[adeptitus]

Kudos to Planeman for the excellent pictures.

I noticed that the MEKO line is not included. i.e. Anzac class from the MEKO 200 series in Australian service:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/anzac/

South Africa's Valour class is also an interesting MEKO variant, with "lock on after launch" Umkhonto SAM. Its capabilities are possibly better than RAM. Though I'm not sure about SA's defense industry's future these days.

As for the HF-2 question, if you're going to export it, you need to develop locks (or alternate versions) on the hardware/software, software controls, etc. The ROC military doesn't have enough incentive (large enough customer base/order) to justify that expenditure.

IMO navy ships that carry 8 x SSM's are probably capable of carrying double that, but the planners didn't see a need to pay for it in weight and cost. The PLAN equipped their ships with 16 SSM's up to 051B & 052 but not afterwards. ROCN was able to somehow find the weight allocation to replace 4 x HF-2 with 4 x HF-3, which are much bigger and heavier.

[yehe]

Yeah, I am actually surprised that they could fit those HF3 into that ship, even with only 4 HF3 it means alot of weight and space.

Taiwanese missiles use alot of US made or licensed component, some are from older missiles like Hawk SAM, which Taiwan have license production I believe, same components from Hawk are used on several TW developed SAM and Cruise missiles.

[crobato]

planeman's charts have become famous. Its already posted in various sites in China. This one is a big one.

http://military.china.com/

http://tuku.military.china.com/milit...458_978398.htm

[tphuang]

So, a new photo of the 3rd 054A in HP. The windows are still the same small round holes. The little platform for the AK-176M FCR is set up there. Front mast is yet to be seen. Also, we get an up close photo of the bow mounted sonar on this ship. It looks about the same as the previous 054A and 054. I put a photo of those in there too. It looks like the same height, although it's not at the tip like the sonar for the other two ships.

[tphuang]

more pictures from the same shoot, I presume. It shows that unlike what I assumed, the bow mounted sonar simply had not been installed to its position at the point of the shots.

[challenge]

while HQ-16 are beginning to show up in 054 frigate,some question arouse,since HQ-16 was derive from SA-17,and SA-17 main fire control system uses PAR for search,track and illuminate.I do see any PAR aboard 054.
few years ago ,DIIC claim that PLAN is developing VLS for HQ-7.I suspect the project were abandone.

[crobato]

Originally Posted by challenge

while HQ-16 are beginning to show up in 054 frigate,some question arouse,since HQ-16 was derive from SA-17,and SA-17 main fire control system uses PAR for search,track and illuminate.I do see any PAR aboard 054.
few years ago ,DIIC claim that PLAN is developing VLS for HQ-7.I suspect the project were abandone.

Its on the 054A. Do you see the PARs on the 054A? The Orekh and Fregat like radars on those ships? Besides how do you know the original 054 does not have PARs? The radars used for the gun and HQ-7 fire control are actually small PARs.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by crobato

Its on the 054A. Do you see the PARs on the 054A? The Orekh and Fregat like radars on those ships? Besides how do you know the original 054 does not have PARs? The radars used for the gun and HQ-7 fire control are actually small PARs.

I think he got MFR and PAR confused, they sort of use those words interchangeably on Chinese forums. Actually for the HQ-7 FCR, I'm pretty sure it's not small PAR, the radar Type 345 uses Cassesgrain antenna with an IR camera and a CCD.

[crobato]

Forgive me. On the Type 345, the center area between the cassegrain antenna and the TV camera looks very much like a PAR, but it may just be an electronic scanning emitter (like a PESA but without the receiver) and using the Cassegrain as the receiver.

The Type 344 and 347 radars use an inverse cassegrain with twisted polarization or with polarized elements. To scan, the arrays would revolve.

[tphuang]

pictures of 525 and 138 visiting Russia at Vladivostok.

I'm surprised that they didn't post news of this visit anywhere. Now, only 052C, 054A and 051C have not visited other countries making port calls.