054 Series Frigate Thread 2

[A.Man]

Huangpu 054A 6,7,8



& #9?

[CottageLV]

A light bulb just lit up in my head. If 054A was highly automated, even to the extent of drastically surpassing the level of Zumwalt, with Chinese engineers reaching the edge of current technical limitations, what number of crew could they shrink down to? Let's say that the Chinese designers went mad, but still within the limitations of current technology.

The current crew size is 190.

Frigate of almost identical tonnage, Oliver Hazard Perry class, has about 230. Since it first entered service in 77, with the last one in 89, we can see that advancement in automation resulted from the computer advancement, which occurred in the last twenty years, really contributed to downsizing of crew.

Anyone got any idea to this topic?

---------- Post added at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

On another note, I'm really surprised that USN is so hardcore on blue water ideology that it doesn't even build frigates anymore since 1989.

[Lion]

A light bulb just lit up in my head. If 054A was highly automated, even to the extent of drastically surpassing the level of Zumwalt, with Chinese engineers reaching the edge of current technical limitations, what number of crew could they shrink down to? Let's say that the Chinese designers went mad, but still within the limitations of current technology.

The current crew size is 190.

Frigate of almost identical tonnage, Oliver Hazard Perry class, has about 230. Since it first entered service in 77, with the last one in 89, we can see that advancement in automation resulted from the computer advancement, which occurred in the last twenty years, really contributed to downsizing of crew.

Anyone got any idea to this topic?

---------- Post added at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

On another note, I'm really surprised that USN is so hardcore on blue water ideology that it doesn't even build frigates anymore since 1989.

US is obsessed with building a platform to do all job... That's where AB class destroyer comes in.

Like the F-35.

[luhai]

US is obsessed with building a platform to do all job... That's where AB class destroyer comes in.

Like the F-35.

That's because the US military are tasked to do crazy things, they don't only know where the next war is or who will they fight. Whereas for most countries, mission profile and likely threats are well know.

[Red___Sword]

US is obsessed with building a platform to do all job... That's where AB class destroyer comes in.

Like the F-35.

And I'd say "winner takes all" is also in the play, take a guess how sweet you will be when you are the main contractor who builds the "general purpose" destoryer of AB, and "general purpose" fighter of F-35? And would you lobbying for that prospect when money owner aka DoD planning the next-big-thing?

[lostsoul]

they don't only know where the next war is or who will they fight.

That made me laugh

[CottageLV]

That made me laugh

laughable indeed

[MwRYum]

On another note, I'm really surprised that USN is so hardcore on blue water ideology that it doesn't even build frigates anymore since 1989.

When you could dominate the blue waters, you can no doubt have the firepower and reach to uber-pwn whatever brown-water assets the other sides have, even power project inland, and the other side would most likely unable to touch you.

[luhai]

That made me laugh

Well, when you have a good hammer, everything either starts to look like a nail, or your will "swiss army knife" your hammer. Nevermind F-35, just look at Zumwalt DDG.

"The prime missions of the new DDG-1000 Zumwalt Class destroyer are to provide naval gunfire support, and next-generation air defense, in near-shore areas where other large ships hesitate to tread. There has even been talk of using it as an anchor for action groups of stealthy Littoral Combat Ships and submarines, owing to its design for very low radar, infrared, and acoustic signatures. The estimated 14,500t (battlecruiser size) Zumwalt Class will be fully multi-role, however, with undersea warfare, anti-ship, and long-range attack roles. "

Link

I heard of multi-role before, but this is over the top. But think about, the USN has to think about possible land attack and ground support on Iran, possible surgical strike missions on terrorist groups, possible naval conflict with PLAN (you never know), possible conflict with Russia (you never know) and whatever other navies of a whatever resurgent country (A United Muslim Caliphate? A powerful and hostile Latin American State? Some African state? Here is where tom clancy comes in). In order to maintain continuous naval presence in all oceans to in sure hegemony, all these while under a possible budget cut. Some a single platform must do many, many things. Else USN will have to maintain thousands of specialized platform, which they just can't afford.


While for China, the mission is clear (Unless they didn't learn the lesson and wants to be world police too). Secure waters within first island chain, project power to second and able to maintain operations to protect Chinese interest beyond. The focus will in lines of trade between China and middle east and possibly Europe. (trade route to Americas while important is up to the Americans and the USN. Basically a don't care for PLAN) It will not fight large scale conflicts outside of Western Pacific, and most likely will not do so outside of the China Seas. Possible threats for a naval supremacy battle include Indian Navy, Japanese Navy, Korean Navy and ASEAN Navies. Where in a possible conflict with the US Navy, the goal will not be naval supremacy, but preventing comprehensive USN strikes at the Mainland before some sort of peace agreement can be reached.

At least for now, China don't seems to use Naval power politically the same way Americans does. (you can see it in Sudan-South Sudan conflict and also in Libya. US tends to choose one side and bomb the other side, and get deeply involved in the region militarily. While China choose to deal with both side and sometimes have to eat the cost of bad investment) So the prospect of long term deployment of PLAN is low. (Aside from the Gulf of Aden international naval dog and pony show) For now the only use of PLAN is in possible "my ship on station is bigger than yours" type of stand offs with its neighbors on disputed territories while avoiding actual armed conflict.

Let's get back to topic, 054 is tasked to do one thing only: Fleet protection, be it a CVGB, SAG or in convoy. Which it does it's job very well. It is what USN ships like Ticonderoga, OHP used to do before the military becomes mission confused after the cold war. It does not have to lunch cruise missiles into some country in the middle East or Africa or provide naval gun fire for support Special Ops or provide ballistic missile shield for some distant allies when some "rouge" country decides to lunch a satellite. These are crazy things for a single platform to do and do them well.... A blue water navy does not mean a omni-present navy like USN or the past Royal Navy, sometimes the economic cost of empire building is not worth the economic benefit. China has being though all this in the Tang Dynasty, hopefully its lessons are fully learned.

[A.Man]

Add One More To South Sea Fleet Of PLAN

[franco-russe]

Hopefully PLAN is going back to putting the pennant number on the hull while at the yard, saving a lot of speculation.

However, in this case it is pretty confusing: It looks as if 572 (YUEYANG) is more advanced than the outboard unit, which ought to be HP 6 550 SIPING. Have HP 6 and HP 7 switched identities??

[RedMercury]

Excellent analysis Luhai

[hmmwv]

Huangpu 054A 6,7,8
& #9?

I believe that's a 056.

---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

Hopefully PLAN is going back to putting the pennant number on the hull while at the yard, saving a lot of speculation.

However, in this case it is pretty confusing: It looks as if 572 (YUEYANG) is more advanced than the outboard unit, which ought to be HP 6 550 SIPING. Have HP 6 and HP 7 switched identities??

What do you mean by "more advanced?" Prior to #8's launch 572 is the outermost ship at the fitting berth, so after #8's launch it's sandwiched between #7 and #8.

[asif iqbal]

a fine achievment from these Chinese shipyards on making these Type 054As

if only Pakistan had the kind of leaders China has, a central goverment who has ultimate control we would have been in a much more powerful and better position than our current sell out leaders

i wonder where the final tally for Type 054A will end..............

[franco-russe]

What do you mean by "more advanced?" Prior to #8's launch 572 is the outermost ship at the fitting berth, so after #8's launch it's sandwiched between #7 and #8.

Yes, that was what I meant: 572 seems to HP 6, whereas it was expected that 550 would be HP 6 and 572 would be HP 7.