SinoDefence Forum

Gollevainen

...?? You know that all the Danes, Norweigians and Sweeds (mean all the real scandinaviks) are decendeants of the Vikings, not just those Icelanders...

Anyway Vikings, as interesting they often are, hardly is related to the topic so off you go, there nothing more here to see

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FreeAsia2000

Sampan

Also didn't the Russians pay the Vikings to protect them from other
armies...? If backpay has accrued and we add interest would that
cover the total assets of Gazprom... Could be those Vikings own
a large portion of the world's energy supply...

GermanChinese it's not a question of IF any asian tribes visited the
america's...they did...unless your're saying humanity began in the america's

My point is that the whole thing about who 'discovered' the america's
is irrelevant. I doubt if the ancestors of the Native Americans planted
a flag and said we claim this on behalf of the Asians

Humanity pushed forward the frontier...one day maybe WE will do it
again into other solar systems and then maybe galaxies...I couldn't
care less whether the person who get's there first has blond hair or
black. Let's do it for all mankind

If Zheng He reached the America's that's fantastic but lets not turn
it into a narrow my tribe/race is better than yours issue

Sorry now I have to go off and meet a cute girl

BLUEJACKET

[QUOTE=FreeAsia2000;45781]Sampan

Also didn't the Russians pay the Vikings to protect them from other
armies...? [QUOTE]
No, back then there were no Russians, just Slavic tribes fighting each other (like later Scandinavians). They invited the Varyag chieftains who by some accounts were half Slavs to rule over them so they won't kill off each other,
and before that the Vikings/Varyags were taking Slavs as captives to help them conduct their riverborne trade with Bysantium- check the old National Geograhic magazine.
Before the Vikings, there were the Irish (the Vikings themselves addmitted that), Welsh, Celts, Iberians, Romans- if we are talking of just the Europeans; Phoenicians, Lybians, Egyptians, Hebrews, Africans, Arabs, Malayans, Khmers, Indians, Polynesians, Japanese and of course Chinese- besides those who came much earlier following the coastlines from the Far East to Alaska & further South.
I think that they were many different peoples over many millenia (in prehistoric and historic times) who found their way to both coasts of North & South America- the evidence is clear in many areas of Antropology.

Gollevainen

Well if the topic is stalling on vikings (thougth I strongly suggest to wind it up), you cannot quote old Nestor by saying Slavs "invited" Varyags to rule them. It was a pure expendiotary adventure by the varyags own decission and that famous quote mentioned in the Nestor's chronicle is sort of that age's version of Bush administrations claim that they are there to 'liberate' Iraq.

But thats it. Anyone else venturing to the viking topic will face the consequences....

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Gaginang

what was zheng he's expedition different from other traveller (not explorer since he already known what's out there) was dat he didn't travel cheap into the unknown. he brought with him treasure of china to trade with the world. he didn't cheat or stole from the natives.

it's rather sad to compare him to european explorer. zheng he can only class above european or nothing at all. he is credited for bringing muslim to indonesia from china. muslim was not brought to indonesia by the arab.

there are temples built dedicated to zheng he, even though he is a islam believer local chinese revere him as God of the Sea. i think dat's is a fair statement. since he cleared out the pirates infected water of indonesia in his time, to make way for sea routes to trade between india and china.

his achievement for humanity is still yet fully known, i hope they can find more evidences to proof him alleged achievement.

BLUEJACKET

Yes, he was second to none! But let us remember that the word "admiral" is Arabic! I think Arab traders landed in Indonesia before the Chinese, simply because they plied Indian Ocean long before his time and traded with India, E. Africa, Sri Lanka, SE Asia and China itself (since at least 851 AD)- and sure they were in Indonesia before that date.
http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/Asia/ArabMalays.htm

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=004...3E2.0.CO%3B2-W

http://books.google.com/books?id=g2m...ct=result&cd=2
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/6162804.stm

Gaginang

i've just been to indonesia a few months ago, the muslim there believed they were 7 chinese muslim brought the religioun there. one of which died in Java. they even built a temple for him.

before the chinese went to indonesia the country was hindu and budduhdt.
there was no way the arab COULD be allowed to entered hindu terrictory, since the hindu and arab were enermy. the only way they came was through the silk road.

Ps how accurate is website reference bud ?

Zahid

Arabs had pretty much a monopoly over the spice trade between Europe and Asia. It is hard to believe that Arabs did not venture into Java for whatever reason. Certainly being Hindu did not mean automatic hatred / dislike for Arabs. The hinduism practiced in East Indies is / was different from what you would find in India. For instance Hindus of Bali follow different dietary practices than Hindus of India in general.

Also a mausoleum should not be called a temple. It would be ironic if a temple were to be built for a muslim, especially one whose example inspired people to convert to Islam. After all Islam is a strictly monotheistic religion.

Taigong

Well did you ever ask yourself; what made Columbus sooo sure that sailing westwards towards the (End of the World, rim of the plate) he would end up in India? I don't think he was so nutty or crazy to do so without having some information or indication about what is in the West. So where did his information come from ? or what maps made him so convinced? It is known that the early Western sailors, explorers and merchants did have contacts to their Muslims counterparts and therefore also knowledge about India or was Columbus from the start on eying and expecting a Continent or land in between due to some strange unknown map originating or dating back to Zheng He's voyage?

zraver

he knew the world was round becuase he was a navigator. Any person on the open sea can tell the world is round beucase you can see the curve of the horizon and watch ships sail up over it. Also northern European fishermen were sailing to Labrador to fish and of course their were the migratory bird flights. India has been know of since the Romans sailed in the area.

America has probalby been visted by ships blown off course from both sides as long as man has sailed the seas. America was never discovered, it was jsut found, lost and refound again.

BLUEJACKET

Even before Zheng He time, there was a Christian man who came to Europe by land to find allies against the Muslims! Marco Polo in Reverse

FuManChu

There is no evidence that he had any maps from China to rely upon. You can't practice History with such tenuous links - if there's nothing to back that up then it isn't even worth considering.

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"Japan is as much of a threat to China, as China is to Japan."

--FuManChu