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Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

This is a discussion on Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed. within the Military History forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; In the wikipedia page of the World War 2: See here , there is a discussion among Wikpedians about which ...

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    Phead128 is offline Member
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    Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    In the wikipedia page of the World War 2: See here, there is a discussion among Wikpedians about which are the top most important leaders in WW2, and which countries should be included in the info box.

    As of Dec 28, 2010, the World War 2 infobox looks like this.

    http://img535.imageshack.us/i/oknow.jpg/

    Just look the right side of the Wikipedia page (here), and see they bolded the top 3, except China and France.

    In the discussion page, they lay out their reason.

    It was because China wasn't as important as the Big 3 in the WW2.

    My advice, we need more Chinese people to argue otherwise. China's contribution to the war of resistance against Japan was pivotal in WW2.

    Is the Chinese contribution to WW2 so insigificant that it does not merit a Bold text (ie. Big 3 and Tripartite (Nazi, Japan, Italy)) and inclusion of Chiang Kai Shek among the Big 3?
    Last edited by Phead128; 12-27-2010 at 11:41 PM.

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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    double post.

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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    China had the second highest casualty next to the Soviet Union during WWII. I think it irresponsible to say the least that China didn't contribute as much as the big three. Seeing how industrialized nations like France crumbled under the German assault I'd say China did a very good job during the war.

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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    Although disputable... in my opinion, I think China did great in holding back the Japanese and most of the elites of the Japanese imperial army are actually stranded in mainland China... Although I would also believe that it is not out of goodwill that the Chinese actually held back the Japanese in their land, but was actually fighting for their own survival. But the result is the same... And with that the Japanese imperial army are greatly weakened... and by huge margins too.
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    armchairwarrior is offline New Member
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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    china held down 3 million japanese troops, i would say that is very important, remember the japanese and germany were allies and they could of open a second front to ussr. china's role is same as russias held down alot of troops. ussr got better support than china did simply because of race politics of the western world.

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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    meh, what did you expect? Wikipedia, by its nature as a predominantly english-language knowledge base, is Euro-centric.

    When North Americans and Europeans talk about WW2, they think Hitler, Nazis, and Holocaust.

    When Chinese talk about that period in history, WW2 takes a second place to the Resistance War against Japan.
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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    Quote Originally Posted by solarz View Post
    meh, what did you expect? Wikipedia, by its nature as a predominantly english-language knowledge base, is Euro-centric.

    When North Americans and Europeans talk about WW2, they think Hitler, Nazis, and Holocaust.

    When Chinese talk about that period in history, WW2 takes a second place to the Resistance War against Japan.
    In the US it depends upon what service is discussed..Army and Army Air Force/Corps would be Europe.. US Navy and Marines would be Pacific. But China is seldom mentioned.
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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
    In the US it depends upon what service is discussed..Army and Army Air Force/Corps would be Europe.. US Navy and Marines would be Pacific. But China is seldom mentioned.
    Not surprising. Another factor is that China was not part of some "counter-offensive" to defeat the Japanese. All the battles China fought in WW2 was on its own soil, and most of them losing ones. People tend to glorify battles won, and don't pay much attention to attrition factors.

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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    Initially, Japan saw itself as the champion of Asia against Western Imperialism being the most advanced Asian nation at the time. Eventually that mutated into a rabid Yamato-race cult. It's argued that Chang Kai Shek never wanted to directly fight the Japanese. He wanted an Asian Co-prosperity Sphere where China could play second fiddle to a Greater Japan (including Manchuria) but remain independent.

    Suppose political forces turned out differently, and Japan followed through on its theoretical position of being the champion of Asia things would have turned out very differently. The Asian Co-prosperity Sphere would likely have defeated the USA in the Pacific with its great manpower and resources and taken Hawaii (no American century). Even Russian Far East would have fallen. Western forces would have been kicked out of South East Asia. Invasion would be conceivable against Australia and eventually British Indian Empire.

    At this point, British India could well face a rebellion. Russia would collapse from the two front war. Third Reich would win. UK would be "Finlandized" at best. Israel would never exist. In other words, you wouldn't have a post-WW2 decolonization. You would have a para-WW2 decolonization.

    Then at the end, the most powerful states in the world would be:

    Third Reich (including big chunks of Russia)
    Greater Japan
    USA

    With all three roughly equal in power -- possibly a more stable equilibrium than USA / Soviet Union before or USA / China now. China and India would be much lesser powers. This is the real contribution of ROC during WW2.
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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    well you must admit that the Chinese army was pretty useless against the Japanese. but it did take up quite a bit of Japanese land capacity just hold the vast territory (and they still couldnt eradicate the guerilla forces) if we were to talk about Chinese contribution it is in that sense. the Chinese army really didnt perform all that well...

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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    ^ What are you talking about? More Japanese were killed in the China theater than the Pacific theater.

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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    Quote Originally Posted by pla101prc View Post
    well you must admit that the Chinese army was pretty useless against the Japanese. but it did take up quite a bit of Japanese land capacity just hold the vast territory (and they still couldnt eradicate the guerilla forces) if we were to talk about Chinese contribution it is in that sense. the Chinese army really didnt perform all that well...
    It took the Japanese vast manpower to hold the territory not only because of China's land size, but also because of the continuous resistance offered by both guerilla forces and the common Chinese folk.

    The Nationalist Chinese army was under poor leadership and vastly outgunned by the Japanese. Considering those circumstances, they performed admirably well.
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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    Quote Originally Posted by solarz View Post
    The Nationalist Chinese army was under poor leadership and vastly outgunned by the Japanese. Considering those circumstances, they performed admirably well.
    Couldn't agree with you more. I remember reading it somewhere (maybe some history text), the Japanese had boasted that they needed only 3 days to conquer Shanghai and 3 months to conquer the entire China (to that effect)... Even though outgunned, the Shanghai defence forces was able to hold back for approximately 3 months and the entire war in China lasted for around 8 years (and even then the Japanese didn't managed to fully defeated China and conquered it.)

    In that light, I would say that China did very well... and had contributed a lot to the war and allies... For they held back the majority of the Japanese forces in Asia.
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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    I come from a port city that is very little known outside of china maybe not even inside china, unless you are a sinologist etc...

    the japanese couldn't even conquer the port city at the height of their naval power. they control almost all major ports inside china. but for wenzhou.

    when you have a determine local opposition with natural defenses such as mountains and locals with butt load of arms. the japanese troops didn't have a good chance.

    by the end of the war there from what i remember according to my greatgrand father who fought them. 1 japanese solider hiding on top of the hill next to the city and port. that hill is gone now, the local government decided to dynamite it a decade back to build more sky scrappers.

    before we left for the west, some of my elders handed in guns and rifles to the local government.

    a local tradition is acknowledge the rulers in the capital and send them their tribute, but we do as we please. this system has been going on since the first imperial unification. unknown to the west and some in china, the reforms really didn't start in the late 70's, but it started in the 50's in wenzhou unofficially off course. the local bosses decided they didn't get the orders from Beijing. some how the orders from the party bosses kept getting lost etc...

    it was also a foreign treaty port that had no foreigners. wenzhou would be the american equivalent of Texas and new york city.

    this type of chinese locality happens in alot of places. the country is huge, some parts of the country is much better armed and no need to fear from the troops, either communist or nationalist because they were all local. when japanese encounter these type of locals they always had problems.

    from what my greatgrand father told me, the local leaders offer them the same deal as they did with the imperials. they get money and locals get left alone. they pretend to be conquered and the Japanese commanders would look the other way and keep marching. the japanese answer the thing with looting all houses of antiques and silver and gold. this didn't go well. locals went to the caves to get weapons and the rest is history.

    Wenzhou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by armchairwarrior; 12-28-2010 at 07:37 PM.
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    Re: Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

    ALL CHINESE PEOPLE.

    Please help me out.

    In this link right here: Talk:World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    They are saying things like:
    "China is as significant as Yugoslavia for holding down the Germans..."
    "In terms of military contribution, China isn't deserving mention like the Big 3"
    "China is weak."

    PLSSSS. Help

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