Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

I posted this in another thread. For those of you who can read Chinese, please google for a book call 中日大决战. It details all the major battles between the Japanese and the Nationalist armies and how bravely the Nationalist armies fought in those battles

I highly recommend two books: 国破山河在 and 尊严不是无代价的 by 萨苏. He gathered historic documents from the Japanese archives to show what the Chinese forces did in the war. Very individual stories of Chinese soldiers' braveries. I have all books in ebook format. PM me if you want a copy.

I have seen some recent mainland movies and TV shows dealing with the Nationalist armies and in my opinion, they are shit. What they showed are nowhere near the stuffs I read in books

BTW, please leave the political discussions in other threads.

Originally Posted by vincent

I have seen some recent mainland movies and TV shows dealing with the Nationalist armies and in my opinion, they are shit. What they showed are nowhere near the stuffs I read in books

Movies and TV shows will always have elements of fiction and interpretation to the history they represent. Do you think "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" is "shit" because it doesn't accurately represent the history of the Three Kingdoms era?

Also, just because history is recorded a certain way in one book, doesn't make that book the "bible". Many books will have different interpretations.

Suppose political forces turned out differently, and Japan followed through on its theoretical position of being the champion of Asia things would have turned out very differently. The Asian Co-prosperity Sphere would likely have defeated the USA in the Pacific with its great manpower and resources and taken Hawaii (no American century). Even Russian Far East would have fallen. Western forces would have been kicked out of South East Asia. Invasion would be conceivable against Australia and eventually British Indian Empire.

What about the American development of nuclear weapons? Japan was never close to developing an atomic bomb. Even if Japan overran the entire Pacific region, as soon as the United States developed atomic weapons it could have launched long-range bombing missions on Japanese-occupied islands one-by-one, nuking them all the way to the home islands.

^^^ I think the US will still just nuke cities in mainland Japan to induce a quick surrender.

Atomic bombs are not easy to make back in those days, and they might want these islands clean for their own purposes after.

Originally Posted by solarz

Movies and TV shows will always have elements of fiction and interpretation to the history they represent. Do you think "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" is "shit" because it doesn't accurately represent the history of the Three Kingdoms era?

Also, just because history is recorded a certain way in one book, doesn't make that book the "bible". Many books will have different interpretations.

Well, people in this thread mentioned that the shows and movies from mainland nowadays are showing the bravery of the Nationalist armies. I like to dispute that fact. I rather believe authors from outside of China than the ones from within. We all know everything from the mainland is censored by the government. I was born in China and I spent a few years back there recently, so I have first hand experience with the damn censors.

Originally Posted by vincent

Well, people in this thread mentioned that the shows and movies from mainland nowadays are showing the bravery of the Nationalist armies. I like to dispute that fact. I rather believe authors from outside of China than the ones from within. We all know everything from the mainland is censored by the government. I was born in China and I spent a few years back there recently, so I have first hand experience with the damn censors.

You're kidding yourself if you think authors outside of China are not biased. There is propaganda everywhere, not just in China. That's why critical thinking is essential.

Originally Posted by solarz

You're kidding yourself if you think authors outside of China are not biased. There is propaganda everywhere, not just in China. That's why critical thinking is essential.

Agreed, I find American people are by far, some of the most brainwashed people on earth. And there is more than 1 type of censorship, what China is doing is direct censorship. There is also the type of Western censorship of controlling the information flow, what to report, what not to report, which side of story gets the most coverage etc... In the end, you get the same or even worse result, because the people getting censored have no idea they are being brainwashed.

Originally Posted by solarz

You're kidding yourself if you think authors outside of China are not biased. There is propaganda everywhere, not just in China. That's why critical thinking is essential.

yes of course. Owen Lattimore, John Fairbanks and Edgar Snow are the most famous biased writers on 20th century China. the mainland Chinese historians when quoting foreign sources often referred to these 3 writers.

Originally Posted by lightspeed

yes of course. Owen Lattimore, John Fairbanks and Edgar Snow are the most famous biased writers on 20th century China. the mainland Chinese historians when quoting foreign sources often referred to these 3 writers.

Yes, there are people that are not biased, therefore it makes everyone else also unbiased. And since there are biased Chinese writers, therefore everything Chinese is bias as well.

Great logic.

Originally Posted by jackliu

Yes, there are people that are not biased, therefore it makes everyone else also unbiased. And since there are biased Chinese writers, therefore everything Chinese is bias as well.

i believe there's a difference between bias and outright lies.

Originally Posted by lightspeed

i believe there's a difference between bias and outright lies.

I believe you're derailing the thread.

Originally Posted by solarz

I believe you're derailing the thread.

No he/she did not. We are discussing the accuracies of the information from mainland. If you want to discuss the trustworthiness of things from mainland, you have to keep in mind everything has to be approved by the censor. The communist has a proven history of distorting, covering and outright lying about the history. Any ration person would take whatever spew out or approved by the Chinese government with a huge grain of salt. You know what people are saying in China? Rumours aren't true until government experts come out to deny them.

I went through elementary school in China and what I learned from school is that the communist forces are the only one actually fighting the Japanese while the Nationalist army cowered in fear and run away whenever they encountered the Japanese. Even now the TV shows and movies that involved the Nationalist army (the official Chinese army at the time) aren't exactly flattering. It is a real shame because there shouldn't be distinction of communist forces or Nationalist forces. There is only the Chinese forces and people should learn what those brave men and women did to defend their country, regardless of their party affiliations.

Originally Posted by vincent

No he/she did not. We are discussing the accuracies of the information from mainland. If you want to discuss the trustworthiness of things from mainland, you have to keep in mind everything has to be approved by the censor. The communist has a proven history of distorting, covering and outright lying about the history. Any ration person would take whatever spew out or approved by the Chinese government with a huge grain of salt. You know what people are saying in China? Rumours aren't true until government experts come out to deny them.

I went through elementary school in China and what I learned from school is that the communist forces are the only one actually fighting the Japanese while the Nationalist army cowered in fear and run away whenever they encountered the Japanese. Even now the TV shows and movies that involved the Nationalist army (the official Chinese army at the time) aren't exactly flattering. It is a real shame because there shouldn't be distinction of communist forces or Nationalist forces. There is only the Chinese forces and people should learn what those brave men and women did to defend their country, regardless of their party affiliations.

You know that vast majority of American think China is a red communist dictatorship, where they grow their economy by force slave labor and shooting dissidents national sport. China also invaded a completely independent nation of Tibet for no reason whatsoever, it pollutes it is environment for the sake of pollution, where corruption so widely accepted that anyone don't' agree will get lock up or shot.

Yes, seriously dude, this is the impression that the American people get from watching the mainstream media. You still think this is better than direct censorships? I mean at least peple in China know they are being censored, however people in the States think they have a free media, so it MUST be true.

Originally Posted by vincent

No he/she did not. We are discussing the accuracies of the information from mainland. If you want to discuss the trustworthiness of things from mainland, you have to keep in mind everything has to be approved by the censor. The communist has a proven history of distorting, covering and outright lying about the history. Any ration person would take whatever spew out or approved by the Chinese government with a huge grain of salt. You know what people are saying in China? Rumours aren't true until government experts come out to deny them.

I went through elementary school in China and what I learned from school is that the communist forces are the only one actually fighting the Japanese while the Nationalist army cowered in fear and run away whenever they encountered the Japanese. Even now the TV shows and movies that involved the Nationalist army (the official Chinese army at the time) aren't exactly flattering. It is a real shame because there shouldn't be distinction of communist forces or Nationalist forces. There is only the Chinese forces and people should learn what those brave men and women did to defend their country, regardless of their party affiliations.

Or let us talk about WW2, you are here complain that Chinese don't give enough credit to the KMT for the war effort, I agree with you. But you know what? In America, we pretty much skipped all of China's WW2 effort. When I was in World History class in high school. I believe we talk about China for about exactly 10 seconds, that they were part of the Allie force, that Japan invaded them. And it was not until we defeated the Japanese and won the war that China was finally free. I mean... that it all, all of it. We spend rest of the semester learning the heroic American landing on Normandy, the Pearl harbor attack, the pacific war. Very little mention of Russia even. When I finish the class I didn't known better, I thought that America single handedly won the war by itself.

Yep, you want to complain that Chinese don't have enough KMT credit, you know what? In the western world, no one gives China any credit whatsoever. They give no credit to KMT, they give no credit to communist, all of their millions of death and sacrifice is a footnote on the pages. Want complain about that? Or since we have a "free" media then everything is alright?