SinoDefence Forum

Inst

Isn't this sort of like CSM v SM warfare? =).

Actually, I'm told the Romans have better morale, their troops are "harder". They're very muscular from heavy road work, and their society glorifies the martial virtues(Rome only got to where it was by conquering its neighbors, it was not innately an economic power).

The Chinese general has to be very careful. If he screws up or dies, the entire Chinese army will break and get decimated. As long as this scenario does not occur, the Han can exploit their technological and doctrinal advantages.

By the way, what's the history of siege crossbows? You know, the leg powered artillery crossbow? The first time I've encountered those were when I watched the movie "Hero", they don't seem to pop up a lot in the popular culture.

IDonT

The Qin got to where it was from conquering its neighbors.
The Han under Wudi conquered and destroyed the Xiongnu (huns) and broke their hold on Northwestern China.

The Chinese military expedition under Ban Chao, with 70,000 men, reached all the way to the Caspian sea in 97 AD. The Parthians seek an alliance with them because they were being conquered by the Romans under Trajan. When the Roman's conquered the Parthian capital of Csitephon (sp), they were within 1 day march from Ban Chao's border outpost. After Trajan's death, the Romans withdraw...so did Ban Chao.

Inst

Chinese military history is filled with turn and flee actions.

FriedRiceNSpice

Wow Sumdud. You are a square. First off- you wrote rate of fire as RoF. Secondly, what kind of douche bag would apply the term rate of fire to a sword!?!?

ordinary dude

Well, long sword are much more deadly at arms-length, and short swords are very useful if you want to get intimate with your opponent. That way the Japanese samuri carrys 2 katanas most of the time, one long katana to attack and a short katana to defend and attack at short range.

Liberator

I would say that overall. Han China can win.

Reasons.

China has an army that can overpower the Romans in great numbers. China can supply all these soldiers with either scale or plate armours. While the romans can only supply up to tens of thousands with scale, chain mail and legion armours.

Chinese weapons include crossbow or maybe early Chu Ko Nu(s). A crossbow can pierce a thick wooden shield, and can also pierce metal armours and metal shields. Roman soldiers' ranged weapons are javelims, pilums, and short bow. (Slings???).

War machines used by the Romans are balistas that fires bolts -OR- rocks. For China, there are enlarged crossbows and bows that need 2 or more soldiers to fire. China also have stone throwers.

To against the Roman turtle formations, China soldiers can use fire arrows, or crossbows to pierce their shields.

Chinese shields are also big too! Some shields have a tiger or dragon symbols on them, which are rectangle.

Well, horses. Rome ALONE has less horse than China.

Liberator

Short Katana?????? Learn the Japanese swords.

-Japanese long sword = Katana.
-Japanese short sword = Wakisashi.

By the way, Katana and Wakisashi makes me sick.

I think Katana can break when against a European 2 handed sword. BIG TIME!

Liberator

Katana is for fighting in 2 hands when encounters an enemy. Good for slash and chop, and well, stabbing.

Wakizashi or Wakisashi is good when you need your other hand to wield a weapon, Wakizashi is used when enemies is very near you. Better than Katana when stabbing.

Katana and Wakizashi in a Han Chinese versus Roman section???

Obcession

They make me sick too.

So we have heard about a lot of the Han equipment, what of the Romans? How will the Han formation fare against pilums thrown at them, possibly killing many? (since they wear scale armor, and assuming the Romans could get close enough to use their pilums) How about siegecraft, How will Chinese cities fare against Roman sieges and Roman cities fare against a Chinese army? I think the Chinese would have an advantage in siegecraft, I'm not sure if mongonels were invented at this time, but to my knowledge Chinese architects built siege engines very suitable and powerful for siegecraft.

FriedRiceNSpice

I thought the katana and wakibasih were Japanese. Why are we talking about them? The katana is supposed to have a molecular blade, and both Japanese swords are made with highly advance metallugury skills. The Japanese learned their metallgury skills from the Chinese, who also made very good swords, just in different styles and designs. Europe didnt' have metallgury technology until long after the Chinese started using it.

Liberator

I think Chinese siege weapons are better. Roman balistas cannot destroy Chinese walls (If you see how think Chinese walls are).

Pilums, I heard they are very good. But how can they be strong when people use arms to throw spears?

Obcession

I don't know how thick Roman walls are, but Chinese walls, from what I've seen, are extremely thick.

Xi'an's city walls are about 5-10m x 5-10m, thickness and height. I've visited that city in such a long time ago I don't remember.

drunkhomer

ppl go watch da opening battle scene in da movie gladiater...really good movie

rommel

Well, the Roman dosen't just have ballistas, their also have a catapult (the latin name is : onager, onagri) That was good in siege and could break thick wall, the Romans used to launched 20-35 pounds rock with their onagers.

The pilum, ah, that was a great weapon, think as a militarised version of the javelin used in athletism, the light one could be pitched up to 50m and the heavy is up to 35m, the heavy stay stuck in the whatever they hit and i think that moving with a 2,1m pilum in your shield or armor is not so great, assuming you're still in shape to fight... also the heavy pilum got this special handle fix that cover permit legionnary to uncover the opponent shield. When the pilum hit something, the tip stay stuck, and the rear, with an ingenious system of hinge, will be on the ground, the legionnary only have to step on this part that is on the ground and the shiled will be pulled, uncovering the target !!

__________________
No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of men and women.

"Rowing is the only sport that started as a punishment"

Obcession

I know how they use the pilums, but how would the Chinese army fair against it?