Tom Clancy's "The Bear and the Dragon"

oooo, you are so screwed now.. jk.. it is written by our very own Jeff Head. so if you want to discuss the book, just pm him, and BUY a copy. i'm sure he'll appreciated it.

Now that I've got all your attention...

Well, I've always been a fan of technothrillers. I should read this one out...

PS: No offence meant...

I think Jeff still has his book avail via free download (.pdf) from his web site (jeffhead.com?), but I'm sure he'd be happy if ya'll went and bought a copy off amazon.com.

IMO Dragon's Fury is far better than Bear and the Dragon. In Bear and the Dragon the Chinese had no contingency plan whatsoever for foreign involvement, which is completely unrealistic. In Dragon's Fury at least Jeff explore the possibility of terriorism as a tool to damage US economic and industrial capability.

Personally I think western authors tend to write Chinese expansionism based on their own "western" perception of expansionist powers, specifically a megalomanic drive to crush and conquer as much as possible -- Alexander, Napoleon, Hitler, various Roman emperors, etc. You could also say that the Japanese in WW2 was influenced by this type of western thought.

However I think very few of them explore the possibility that Eastern (and sone western) conquerers are content with grabbing what they want, then build a wall and sit on it instead of going further, after a "cost-benefit" analysis. Examples include Hadrian's Wall, and even the Soviet Union. Had the Soviets been hell-bent on miltiary conquest of the world, they wouldn't have lasted 70 years. Imagine if Hitler had been content with his earlier conquest and not declared war on US or Russia.

This is one reason why I like SM Stirling's Draka-series. Instead of the typical foam-at-the-mount, drug-crazed and wild-eyed villian hellbent on global conquest in 3 years, the Domination of the Draka is far more intelligent and willing to sit and consoldiate their conquest, then slowly creep forward to grab more territory. From the time when th Draka developed their world domination ideology, to the time of total global conquest, roughly took a century to complete.

I have yet to see fictions where the PRC becomes economically and politically powerful in the 21st century, extend its influence over Asia, then engage in a cold-war style power struggle vs. the US over a span of 50-100 years, or even a 3-way power struggle in 2100 between Chinese & Indian dominated Asia, vs. Muslinm-dominated Middle East-Europe-Africa, vs. the American Empire. Typical American fiction leans toward crazed oriental vs. white american male savior of the world with very short timelines, which is getting really old.

Originally Posted by adeptitus

However I think very few of them explore the possibility that Eastern (and sone western) conquerers are content with grabbing what they want, then build a wall and sit on it instead of going further, after a "cost-benefit" analysis. Examples include Hadrian's Wall, and even the Soviet Union. Had the Soviets been hell-bent on miltiary conquest of the world, they wouldn't have lasted 70 years. Imagine if Hitler had been content with his earlier conquest and not declared war on US or Russia.

A little correction. Hitler didn't declare war on US. US declared war on Germany after some U-boats sunk a few American convoy ships to UK. Hitler didn't declare war on USSR either; he just directly started attacking Russia. IMHO even if he didn't invade USSR, Stalin would've probably opened war with Germany eventually. The secret treaty between Germany and USSR were only temporary, and they both knew it.

Originally Posted by oringo

A little correction. Hitler didn't declare war on US. US declared war on Germany after some U-boats sunk a few American convoy ships to UK. Hitler didn't declare war on USSR either; he just directly started attacking Russia. IMHO even if he didn't invade USSR, Stalin would've probably opened war with Germany eventually. The secret treaty between Germany and USSR were only temporary, and they both knew it.

I was taught that Nazi Germany had a policy of appeasement toward the US to prevent US from entering the war, then Hitler decided to declare war agains the US 4 days after the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

I think, if we were explore an "alternate history" fiction where Hitler was more reasonable and listened to J. Goebbels and R. Hess instead of H. Goring, things would've turned out very differently. Also, in the event that Germany was able to make a cease fire agreement with UK, and the Soviets decided to attack, I think Nazi Germany on the defensive with full force would've infliced severe punishment on the Soviets on a far bigger scale than the Russo-Finnish Winter War.

Originally Posted by adeptitus

I was taught that Nazi Germany had a policy of appeasement toward the US to prevent US from entering the war, then Hitler decided to declare war agains the US 4 days after the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

I think, if we were explore an "alternate history" fiction where Hitler was more reasonable and listened to J. Goebbels and R. Hess instead of H. Goring, things would've turned out very differently. Also, in the event that Germany was able to make a cease fire agreement with UK, and the Soviets decided to attack, I think Nazi Germany on the defensive with full force would've infliced severe punishment on the Soviets on a far bigger scale than the Russo-Finnish Winter War.

You are right. I was thinking WWI. However, I think that if USSR had attacked Germany first, things would've been different. The reason why Germany was able to inflict so much damange on USSR at the beginning of the war was because they took the Russians by supprise. The Russians knew that the Germans were getting ready for an invasion, but they thought the Germans would at least get some winter gears first. While the Russians were slowly mobilizing their troops, the Germans suddenly attacked USSR without equipping their troops with winter gears, hoping that they would finish the major battles before winter arrives. A famous story was that USSR intel was monitoring the price of lamb to determine when the Germans would attack (Germans would have needed to kill lots of sheep to make winter gears for their troops, and coincidentally the lamb price would fall).