The long-awaited eruption of Anti-mainland tensions in Hong Kong

Originally Posted by xywdx

I seem to have a different understanding of the situation.

I thought it was a passenger that went all offensive, he even pressed the emergency stop button and told the mother to get off. The train personnel came to investigate and like any logical person, was trying to calm the man down. TBH I find it really childish behaviour that caused inconvenience to many bystanders.

They did an interview with the primary source later on, who said the video missed the beginning where he tried telling them no eating in Mandarin, but the women screamed back at them. From then on things picked up heat and that's where the video started rolling(him pressing the stop button, then the staff came onboard to investigate. He complained, which then the staff talked to the woman, who said they didn't know, and they were only kids. Another quarrel started escalating, then the staff asked the family politely to exit the train at the next station.)

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/01/20/china-and-hong-kong-train-scuffle-ignites-cross-border-fury/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2836773/posts

The following is an account by a Hong Kong resident who was embroiled in the incident.

On that day I was with my girlfriend at Hung Hom Station. All the seats in the cabin were taken. On one side was an adult and three children, on the other side were three adults with their luggage. Later, I saw the mother pouring some noodle snack into the hands of one kid, while the other two girls were holding some candies. The kid with the noodle snack spilt some on his clothes and on the floor. I used my limited Mandarin [standard Chinese of mainland China], pointed at the “No eating allowed” sign in the cabin, and told them: ‘Excuse me, you can't eat here’. What happened next was a round of defense. The mom said that only the kids were eating, that she was about to take it away, and that it was none of my business… I told her that I saw her eating as well… I knew I could not change their attitude and was about to shut up, but then her friends sitting opposite to her, sneered at me: “Their Mandarin is so lousy.” I got so angry and talked back in Cantonese: ‘My Mandarin is lousy! This is Hong Kong, you should speak in Cantonese!’ They kept on defending themselves in loud voices. A man in the cabin stood up by my side: “Shut up! It's so noisy here! Just keep on eating OK? How could you yell like this when you have done wrong? Should I call the railway staff?” As they continued to speak loudly, the man pushed the button to call staff when the train reached the next station. And I waved the railway staff over to take care of the situation. What happened next, you can see on the YouTube video.

Seems like there was more to it than I first thought, the Hong Kong man's position is not something I am unfamiliar with. Still I don't think he should have made so much drama out of it, and TBH this kind of things happen all the time in mainland China too. It's hardly a hk versus China issue, more of a cultured citizens versus "farmers" kind of thing.

In fact, it happens here too, despite how vulgar many mainlanders are, I still find them far better than certain extremely privileged people whom the North American authorities wouldn't dare to reprimand.

當天與女友在紅磡站上車，上車後近我的兩排位都坐滿人，一邊一個**大人三個小孩，一邊即是三個大人以及他 們的行李。當時都不以為*然*；後來看到那個媽咪張一包童星點心麵倒進她旁的小孩手中，而*另外*兩個女孩 則有一個拿著糖包。及後雙手捧著一堆點心麵的小孩*不小心*將一些灑到身上及地上。看到這個程況，我便以我 有限的普*通話，指*著不准飲食的牌向他們說：不好意思，這裡不能吃東西。*之後…..*換來一輪啾呼叫。 那媽咪說只是小孩子吃，以及正在收*起，問我為何*要多事…..我向他說剛才我都有見你放進自己口中*，你 也有吃….*.其實講左幾句我都知冇結果，誰知這時他們對面*的友伴邊笑邊出聲*：佢地說得真是很差！我很 火用廣東話同佢地講*：我係講得差！呢度*係香港人的地方，你同我講返廣東話。這時他*們有一句沒一句繼續 講*，這時有位見義勇為的男仕出聲：收聲啦！*好嘈呀！繼續食呀好唔好*？自己做錯野仲嘈，要唔要叫職員呀 ？當*那班人還在嘈時，男仕在旺*角東站按著車門，等職員過來。而我亦*第一時間下車向職員揮手叫他*們過 來。之後你地都響YTUBE度*見到晒

Reading the Chinese text, I get the impression that this guy is definitely not telling the whole story.

If he got angry because the mother's friend commented on his mandarin, why did he keep yelling at the mother?

Secondly, I very much doubt that his initial comment was as benign as he claimed. Why would the mother say that only the kids were eating, if the guy didn't specifically accuse her? It's very unlikely that anyone would react to a polite, benign comment with a flurry of protests.

Ok, now I know the guy isn't a train official. Well the fact that he acted like a personnel having authority in the train and that he accused "all mainlanders are like that" tells a lot of his motive for making such a fuss.

I don't think stick to "what's exactly happening at the train?" would explain anything profound enough.

Purely for example, if one tries to convince some ordinary people in the west (or more specific, the States) that it is not Chinese people stole your job, and boycott Made in China won't change it - it would not gives any decent results or change of aspects to the crowd. That's just it, nobody "right", nobody "wrong", people have some opinons, like or not, those opinons stays.

For people being "Hong Kongers", which is pretty much a parallel (which means "no common point") identity of being "Ordinary Chinese citizens", the IDENTITY TAG stands out. Identity tag didn't means anything outright wrong or right, but it always STANDS OUT the more
we try to mix other things with it. (Like, mix the general feeling of "developed area", "open air", "corrupt-free", "proper mannered"...)

China, being the most long living civilization that 包容 ("contains", cann't find a proper word) all walks of lifes, from all kinds of cultural backgrounds, HAMMERS the identity tags. The identity tags have nothing outright wrong, Chinese vox pops just hammer it outright, we have to!

Airsuperiority, knowing you not being naive and being open minded to touch some stinking solid facts of our lives, you and I both know this is not a MTR issue, not a "right or wrong" issue, and it is an issue way before "commies" have anything to do with it. Let's say, in another topic "movie topics" in SDF, you once pointed out that mainlanders' image used to be poor peasants, prostitutes, 苦力 or something alike, nowadays they became more and more positive, more and more "normal" - Let's say, that is how identity tags fades away - normal, when people are "normal" to each other, we have a far more better position to talk about the proper and polite way of public transportation. - And by the way our society works these days, the future is bright, dare I say.

What's happening here is the people who want to distinguish themselves from being Chinese are doing their part in perpetuating racism. It reminds of how some racists make a distinction by name of one ethnicity to make themselves feel like they're not racist. They have two groups that exist in one ethnicity. One is the derogatory racist name (the bad) and the other is a usually not offensive or neutral label (the good). So just because they will accept some of these people declaring them as good, they can't be called racist. Yeah and guess what makes them good. So they're trying to turn being called Chinese into a derogatory slur.

Originally Posted by solarz

If I was in the Hong Kong subway train, and my kid or wife was eating because they were hungry, and some complete stranger started yelling at them, I'd tell them to f--- off in no uncertain terms.

Being someone from Canada, I gathered that it's pretty common to hear criticism from others on public transit. I live in Toronto and it happens everyday that someone would complain about this and that on the subway. In this case, that Mainland mother was making a mess on the subway...if you saw the entire clip, you'd know that she was making a mess. Yes, it affects others and they are entitled to make criticism. Why is that uncivilized?
Why would you call the authority for every little thing when you can resolve it yourself. I feel sorry for you if you're like that.

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Quickie

I tend to agree. We don't know why the mother of the kid got so defensive in the first place. Could it be the train personnel didn't do his job professionally and told off the mother and child in a demeaning manner in front of the other train passengers? No doubt the kid broke the rule by eating in the train but that doesn't mean the train personnel can take the matter personnally and start talking offensively out of line of his job duty.

Because it's CHINA, hun....live in the Mainland away from the major cities like beijing and shanghai and you'll see how the rest of the population behaves...In China, it's all about being tough, all about defending yourself even if you're wrong...it's a dog eat dog world there....

laiwingnang, welcome to SDF.

Apparently you've not read the forum rules. You need to do so before you post again.

FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!

An introduce yourself to the rest of the forum..

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bd popeye super modertor

Originally Posted by laiwingnang

Being someone from Canada, I gathered that it's pretty common to hear criticism from others on public transit. I live in Toronto and it happens everyday that someone would complain about this and that on the subway. In this case, that Mainland mother was making a mess on the subway...if you saw the entire clip, you'd know that she was making a mess. Yes, it affects others and they are entitled to make criticism. Why is that uncivilized?
Why would you call the authority for every little thing when you can resolve it yourself. I feel sorry for you if you're like that.

You must live in a different Toronto than I, because I have *never* seen anything like what's in the video happen on the TTC, and I take both the subway and the bus to work every day.

Sorry, do you have some video clip that we've not seen? Where do you see that they were "making a mess"?

Originally Posted by bd popeye

laiwingnang, welcome to SDF.

Apparently you've not read the forum rules. You need to do so before you post again.
FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!

Done!

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

You must live in a different Toronto than I, because I have *never* seen anything like what's in the video happen on the TTC, and I take both the subway and the bus to work every day.

Sorry, do you have some video clip that we've not seen? Where do you see that they were "making a mess"?

you probably don't speak any Cantonese..
but this is the clip...this is the youtube video code...put that behind the usual youtube link as I don't have enough posts to put links here..E7oU-QFGU8Q
get someone to translate the dialogue starting 1:29 to get the full story before you criticize

and Yes, I live in TORONTO, CANADA...I don't know which Toronto you came from, on Mars? but people here are always vocal about people standing in the doorway..people not automatically jump up to offer a seat to an elder...and it happened to me once when I was blamed for not yielding a seat to this supposedly old hag when I wake up from a nap in the subway...Are you sure you've been on the TTC?
But incidents like that don't escalate to calling security (which you actually recommend)...because people just shut up after a few words of arguement unlike this mainlander who keeps yelling back even when she is wrong...that's ghetto for you

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

another new one hits the papers...a mainlander got into an arguement with a HK girl, calling her a Hong Kong dog..then started gripping her at the throat..and causing another call for authority....
HK dog , which is what mainland netizens are calling HK people these days...
are we going to denounce these Mainlanders for being racist ...yeah, I think not because we all love to be the hero of the day to save the poor underpriviledge..

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

I forgot ...complains about people squeezing into each other on a packed train or people not moving in far enough, and the rude bus drivers yelling at passengers for not moving futher...happens so often in Toronto, do you have take the TTC?

As someone who physically live in Hong Kong, and physically witnessed how one of the movements ferment into the hate campaign today, perhaps I can share some points...

While generally the crowd haven't go beyond the "keyboard warrior" stage (the physical turnout compare with the number of "like" on Facebook, for instance), and the worst they did were nothing more than singing racial songs against mainlanders in the public and "that" advertisement, plus without solid organization (Facebook revolution can't sustain, unless political parties take over the subsequent works), the worrying signs of right-wing xenophobic are there for all to see:

1. "anti-locust" icons are gaining popularity and even commercialized
2. cultural vessels of the movements (songs and posters) are gaining viral popularity, spreading beyond the youth
3. even mothers and housewives joined the "anti-locust" movements, when these are usually the non-participants
4. loose, non-organized community can garner funds in less than a week

So all it takes is just a few more provocations from the mainlanders (y'know, if that so-called "professor" said nothing things would died down - or cooled down a lot - by now), further inaction by the government, and some politicians fan the fire...how long it'd take for Hong Kong to have their own "skinhead gang" or "neo-nazi-ish gang" who'd translate such rage into physical violence?

But with an Administration waiting to step down in less than 6 months time, and legislative council election in the 3rd quarter, it's just all too evident that many would rather do nothing, or worse let it ferment some more to turn it into viable munitions in election time.

Originally Posted by laiwingnang

you probably don't speak any Cantonese..
but this is the clip...this is the youtube video code...put that behind the usual youtube link as I don't have enough posts to put links here..E7oU-QFGU8Q
get someone to translate the dialogue starting 1:29 to get the full story before you criticize

So in other words, you haven't *SEEN* any mess, you're just relying on a one-sided narrative.

and Yes, I live in TORONTO, CANADA...I don't know which Toronto you came from, on Mars? but people here are always vocal about people standing in the doorway..people not automatically jump up to offer a seat to an elder...and it happened to me once when I was blamed for not yielding a seat to this supposedly old hag when I wake up from a nap in the subway...Are you sure you've been on the TTC?
But incidents like that don't escalate to calling security (which you actually recommend)...because people just shut up after a few words of arguement unlike this mainlander who keeps yelling back even when she is wrong...that's ghetto for you

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

another new one hits the papers...a mainlander got into an arguement with a HK girl, calling her a Hong Kong dog..then started gripping her at the throat..and causing another call for authority....
HK dog , which is what mainland netizens are calling HK people these days...
are we going to denounce these Mainlanders for being racist ...yeah, I think not because we all love to be the hero of the day to save the poor underpriviledge..

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

I forgot ...complains about people squeezing into each other on a packed train or people not moving in far enough, and the rude bus drivers yelling at passengers for not moving futher...happens so often in Toronto, do you have take the TTC?

1) Assume mainlander was wrong without any evidence other than a one-sided narrative. *check*

2) Assume mainlanders are "ghetto". *check*

3) Taking an isolated incident and generalizing it to an entire group of people. *check*

Yeah, no bigotry here...

As for the TTC, if you can't see the difference between people getting yelled at for eating, and the bus driver telling people to move back, then there's really no point in arguing with you.

BTW, I get on packed buses where people stand in front while leaving huge space in the back all the time. A few simple "excuse me"s are enough to get myself to the back. No yelling needed.

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 AM ----------

Originally Posted by MwRYum

As someone who physically live in Hong Kong, and physically witnessed how one of the movements ferment into the hate campaign today, perhaps I can share some points...

While generally the crowd haven't go beyond the "keyboard warrior" stage (the physical turnout compare with the number of "like" on Facebook, for instance), and the worst they did were nothing more than singing racial songs against mainlanders in the public and "that" advertisement, plus without solid organization (Facebook revolution can't sustain, unless political parties take over the subsequent works), the worrying signs of right-wing xenophobic are there for all to see:

1. "anti-locust" icons are gaining popularity and even commercialized
2. cultural vessels of the movements (songs and posters) are gaining viral popularity, spreading beyond the youth
3. even mothers and housewives joined the "anti-locust" movements, when these are usually the non-participants
4. loose, non-organized community can garner funds in less than a week

So all it takes is just a few more provocations from the mainlanders (y'know, if that so-called "professor" said nothing things would died down - or cooled down a lot - by now), further inaction by the government, and some politicians fan the fire...how long it'd take for Hong Kong to have their own "skinhead gang" or "neo-nazi-ish gang" who'd translate such rage into physical violence?

But with an Administration waiting to step down in less than 6 months time, and legislative council election in the 3rd quarter, it's just all too evident that many would rather do nothing, or worse let it ferment some more to turn it into viable munitions in election time.

These people forget that Hong Kong's wealth comes from the Mainland. If the anti-mainland attitude takes popularity, it will simply hasten the displacement of Hong Kong's economy to Mainland cities like Shanghai.

Originally Posted by laiwingnang

Done!

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------



you probably don't speak any Cantonese..
but this is the clip...this is the youtube video code...put that behind the usual youtube link as I don't have enough posts to put links here..E7oU-QFGU8Q
get someone to translate the dialogue starting 1:29 to get the full story before you criticize

and Yes, I live in TORONTO, CANADA...I don't know which Toronto you came from, on Mars? but people here are always vocal about people standing in the doorway..people not automatically jump up to offer a seat to an elder...and it happened to me once when I was blamed for not yielding a seat to this supposedly old hag when I wake up from a nap in the subway...Are you sure you've been on the TTC?
But incidents like that don't escalate to calling security (which you actually recommend)...because people just shut up after a few words of arguement unlike this mainlander who keeps yelling back even when she is wrong...that's ghetto for you

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

another new one hits the papers...a mainlander got into an arguement with a HK girl, calling her a Hong Kong dog..then started gripping her at the throat..and causing another call for authority....
HK dog , which is what mainland netizens are calling HK people these days...
are we going to denounce these Mainlanders for being racist ...yeah, I think not because we all love to be the hero of the day to save the poor underpriviledge..

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

I forgot ...complains about people squeezing into each other on a packed train or people not moving in far enough, and the rude bus drivers yelling at passengers for not moving futher...happens so often in Toronto, do you have take the TTC?

Well as someone who's lived in the 2 biggest Canadian cities Montreal and Toronto for over a decade, I can tell you more often than not, younger folks do not give up seats to elderly and kids nor do most people move towards the back in crowded buses. I've never heard of hyped up public scene like this young man caused.

I wonder what Hkers would do if they found couples having sex in the subway train...hey it happened in Toronto!

Regarding the "HK dog" label you mentioned, who do you think caused it in the first place? Hasn't racism towards mainlanders always been obvious? HKers here in Canada use the same derogatory terms. This self perceived superiority is what exactly the British had in mind when they colonized the island only to find out it was full of fishermen and farmers.

It will take a few generations for some mainlanders to have proper manners in public so calling them locusts shows lack of civility. Most of your forefathers came from the mainland too so feel free to insult them and your own mainland origins at will. You'd make them very proud.

Originally Posted by solarz

These people forget that Hong Kong's wealth comes from the Mainland. If the anti-mainland attitude takes popularity, it will simply hasten the displacement of Hong Kong's economy to Mainland cities like Shanghai.

Try this for size:

The "economic benefit" the mainland brings largely gobbled up by large corporations, with the general public taking bread crumbs of it at best and nothing filtered down at most; worse, it's the public that has to live with the ill effects -
1. local citizens getting squeezed out to make way for tourists;
2. property price hike drive actual inflation (not the gross average, but those that touch the people most) to somewhere in the 40-50% region;
3. endure the grotesque mannerism exhibited by mainlanders;
4. mainland mothers who flooded the local medical system not only overloading it, but so many case of "leave without paying" made the locals "pay the bills" in effect;
5. the dreaded upcoming scheme of allowing mainland drivers drive their cars down to HK for vacation (if not counting in the already congested local road condition, mainland drivers are notoriously known to run you down dead in what should've been minor accidents, among other clear and present threats);

And those are just tip of the icebergs.

It's not like in those oil-production dukedoms where the locals are tastings the benefits (call it "bribe" if you may) and living the good life in various forms of government subsidies, the populaces in HK mostly shares no fruit of it and getting the crap-end instead, so can you blame them for hating the mainlanders, REALLY?

In case that you said it's the government's fault, I'd say yes and a good deal of the anger is directed at the local Administration and the equally impotent Legislation Council (its recent proposal to raise the monthly pay for the members is widely regarded as further insult to the populaces).

I'm telling you, it's just fermenting a city-wide riot...it's no different than methane gas trap in a sewer system, it just wait for that little spark to trigger a big kaboom...unless the Administration get off their lazy arses and actually do something. If you don't believe me, then means you don't know how much hate is fermenting in local internet and tabloid-level media...wanna guess how long until some kids would lash out in violent fashion?

In some ways, I don't blame those who claimed to miss the "good'o days" when the British are in-charge - yes those people exists...but then again, there're people missing the "old regimes" of their respective locale everywhere...