London Summer Olympics 2012

Gold-medal swimmer admits to cheating in 100 breaststroke | Fourth-Place Medal - Yahoo! Sports

Yep he got away with it, keeping his medal. Clearly he broke the rules and even admit to it, look at the consequences.

Originally Posted by s002wjh

right the committee and the rest of world, and the chinese government is wrong. throwing game is ok, expolit any loophole in the olympic is ok. i rest my case. maybe you should goto other forum and put the same argument there.

yes throwing the game intentionaly was right, seriouslly listen to yourself. clearly you need take some moral/ethical class.

Of course it is right, because the rules permit it. Strategy is the norm in sports. Case closed unless you have valid arguments showing how the Chinese team is in the wrong.

The organizers have only themselves to blame when they didn't heed the warnings that such tactics would be employed. Playing by the rules is not wrong, pure and simple. Of course, to those with covert racism, it is wrong because it gives the Chinese advantages.

Originally Posted by bluewater2012

The referee gave warnings after the crowd booed. Is it wrong for the referee to make decision like that? Once again, if it did not break any rules within the game there no wrong. To win a game esp with medals to grab you need to exploit every opportunities the game allow. If you think the olympics is only about playing/judging games fairly, then i'm sorry, maybe you'd get better sports ethis from watching world champion competitions instead of the olympics mixing with politics nowadays and the bragging rights with gold medals.

clearly thats ethical question. which all the committee doesn't matter IOC, china or other agree its morally wrong, and many others agree clearly not on this forum though. olympic game should be play fair, play to the best of ability, paly to win. not exploiting the loopholes. there are countries do that not just china, it does not mean its right. and pretty much all the sport committee agree upon this. and if you guys put this argument in any other forum, i doubt any those forum members agree throwing the game is ok.
i consider its wrong but hey if all of you consider its ok. there is nothing much to say.
if the IOC think someone will expolit the loophole in the rule beforehand, the rule will be fix before the game start. in fact they are already change the rules now. if cheating on test was not against school policy would that consider ok too or wrong. you guys are growing man, i presume, can distinguish moral wrong issue or not. the rule are there so athlete won't cheat, but just like laws exist in society, it doesn't cover all the loopholes, and it depend on the individual/coach to know its morally wrong or not. and if they did it and later admit its wrong then its fine, but if they insist its right despite IOC, and many other committees ruling, especially in olympic, then they are not only embrass themself but also their country. so yes they didnt break any rules, but is it right, no. and they apologize and recognize its wrong.
so again if you guys think throwing game in the olympic is ok, IOC is wrong and making china a laugh stick in others eyes, there is nothing much to talk about it if you can't even recongize its morally wrong to do this. the athlete is not there for themself but also represent their country.

Originally Posted by s002wjh

clearly thats ethical question. which all the committee doesn't matter IOC, china or other agree its morally wrong. same with many people opinions. olympic game should be play fair, play for the best of ability, paly to win. not exploiting the loopholes. there are countries do that not just china, it does not mean its right. and pretty much all the sport committee agree upon this. and if you guys put this argument in any other forum, i doubt any those forum member agree throwing the game is ok.

I couldn't edit my post in time. Anyway, I want to add this article:
Li Xuerui wins Olympic women's badminton singles, Wang Xin withdraws over injury
Xin had asked Danish referee Torsten Berg several times to have the sweat wiped, but the latter refused.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sp..._123529373.htm

Is that ethic moral of the coach against this badminton player request? Should the IOC return her bronze medal which this neglected referee ignored her plea and caused her her injury and the loss of the bronze medal?

Originally Posted by Engineer

Of course it is right, because the rules permit it. Strategy is the norm in sports. Case closed unless you have valid arguments showing how the Chinese team is in the wrong.

The organizers have only themselves to blame when they didn't heed the warnings that such tactics would be employed. Playing by the rules is not wrong, pure and simple. Of course, to those with covert racism, it is wrong because it gives the Chinese advantages.

like i said you need take some ethical class, and tone down your ultra nationlism. its not just chinese athlete did this.

Originally Posted by bluewater2012

I couldn't edit my post in time. Anyway, I want to add this article:
Li Xuerui wins Olympic women's badminton singles, Wang Xin withdraws over injury
Xin had asked Danish referee Torsten Berg several times to have the sweat wiped, but the latter refused.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sp..._123529373.htm

Is that ethic moral of the coach against this badminton player request? Should the IOC return her bronze medal which this neglected referee ignored her plea and caused her her injury and the loss of the bronze medal?

i read it after i get home, since can't do here at work.

Originally Posted by s002wjh

like i said you need take some ethical class, and tone down your ultra nationlism. its not just chinese athlete did this.

Clearly, it's pointless arguing with you since you simply ignore anything you can't refute.

Originally Posted by s002wjh

like i said you need take some ethical class, and tone down your ultra nationlism.

This has nothing to do with nationalism, but with right and wrong. Typically, people who hide behind the word "nationalism" have covert racism, for they couldn't accept the fact of losing to superior opponents who have independent thinking.

Also, I don't see why I need to take ethic classes when my ethic is vastly superior to yours. After all, I am not the one who suggested that following rules is wrong.

Originally Posted by s002wjh

its not just chinese athlete did this.

The fact that this happens means it is the fault of the rule-makers, not the players.

Originally Posted by s002wjh

clearly thats ethical question. which all the committee doesn't matter IOC, china or other agree its morally wrong, and many others agree clearly not on this forum though. olympic game should be play fair, play to the best of ability, paly to win. not exploiting the loopholes. there are countries do that not just china, it does not mean its right. and pretty much all the sport committee agree upon this. and if you guys put this argument in any other forum, i doubt any those forum members agree throwing the game is ok.
i consider its wrong but hey if all of you consider its ok. there is nothing much to say.
if the IOC think someone will expolit the loophole in the rule beforehand, the rule will be fix before the game start. in fact they are already change the rules now. if cheating on test was not against school policy would that consider ok too or wrong. you guys are growing man, i presume, can distinguish moral wrong issue or not. the rule are there so athlete won't cheat, but just like laws exist in society, it doesn't cover all the loopholes, and it depend on the individual/coach to know its morally wrong or not. and if they did it and later admit its wrong then its fine, but if they insist its right despite IOC, and many other committees ruling, especially in olympic, then they are not only embrass themself but also their country. so yes they didnt break any rules, but is it right, no. and they apologize and recognize its wrong.
so again if you guys think throwing game in the olympic is ok, IOC is wrong and making china a laugh stick in others eyes, there is nothing much to talk about it if you can't even recongize its morally wrong to do this. the athlete is not there for themself but also represent their country.

Take a look at the wiki link i gave you ealier regarding the round robin tournament, it it states "[5] The round robin stage at the Olympics were a new introduction and potential problems were readily known prior to the tournament." and going by your logic when they know there a problem they should fix it right away, which they did not but instead penalized the athletes for their slacking efforts. How is that fair? Yes the rules are changed now after you ousted 8 members from the game, bravo! And how should you expect china to respond to the DQ knowingly china are a complete unlike the americans who supports their athletes all the way. Should china say otherwise dont be surprised the media ganging up on china which already did with ye shiwen gold medal. Talk about bad timeing DQ right after that and here china like to save face so they prob suck it up and keep quiet like what they would usually do that what irks me so much. As for your logic of cheating not against school policy, that is like saying taking an exam with an open book. There is no problem with that when it clearly states you can look at the answer. Its clearly within the rules going by that logic.

Engineer, I agree with you that the disqualifying had everything to do with the Olympic Officials being embarrassed by the players demonstrating their idiocy to the world for designing rules that made loosing some games advantageous, and that there were no clear rules against loosing on purpose, otherwise they would not have charged the players with such bland and generic infringements.

The officials clearly need to take their share of the blame for designing such a stupid system and in ignoring repeated warnings that players might be incentivised into loosing to game the system. They absolutely knew that they were going to get massive stick for it, and that is why they were being so harsh in the punishment.

Having said that, the players and coaches are clearly not guiltless either. The argument that they did not think they broke any rules in deliberately loosing is undermined by the fact that the players were warned in no uncertain terms by the match ref of what would happen if they continued to play so badly.

That decision probably came from a little bit of arrogance and stupidity in that the Chinese team no doubt went through the rule book with a fine tooth comb to check if there were any rules against loosing on purpose beforehand when they first thought of doing this. Having found nothing, they no doubt thought they were safe from sanction, the fact that they were the top seeds and defending champions probably gave them a little added arrogance as they probably thought the officials would not dare to really disqualify them.

It is more than a little ironic that a Chinese team would not anticipate the petty wrath of officials or application of a principles based interpretation of the rules as opposed to a rules based once since there are plenty of petty and wrathful officials in China and China operates a principles based legal system as opposed rules based on in the west.

The coaches and players should have known better than to think they can be so blatant in their attempts in loosing without consequence, and they were arrogant in ignoring the stern warnings of the match official. There was no doubt some naivety involved, but then how many times had athletes and teams lost out for being too naive in sports?

I think acquisitions that Olympic officials were being racist against China in DQing the players are unjustified and unfounded. It is quite clear why the officials DQed them and that has nothing to do with their nationality or race and everything to do with them embarrassing and pissing off the officials.

Only one of the 4 teams QDed were Chinese, so there is really no basis for claims of special unfair treatment. The decision to DQ the players might have been very harsh, but it was at least applied with equal harshness to everyone caught and no one was singled out for special treatment.

It was the media who were being biased by making the story almost exclusively about China and trying to spin it as if all the criticism was only directed towards China when it was directed with equal force to all the players involved by officials and commentators.

The blame for that should be laid at the feet of those responsible, and Olympic Officials might have been guilty of much, but no one really could or should blame them for being racist when they clearly were not.

Originally Posted by plawolf

Having said that, the players and coaches are clearly not guiltless either. The argument that they did not think they broke any rules in deliberately loosing is undermined by the fact that the players were warned in no uncertain terms by the match ref of what would happen if they continued to play so badly.

Of course not. Losing a match intentionally is nothing to boast about. However, is it fair to disqualify these players based on that? That's what the issue really is about. Considering that so many athletes of other countries manipulate or outright break the rules and get away with it, China would have been perfectly within its right to protest about the DQ.

Isn't there a forum rule here forbidding any members from accusing other members of trolling, ultra-nationalism and other accusations of such nature?

Originally Posted by Quickie

Isn't there a forum rule here forbidding any members from accusing other members of trolling, ultra-nationalism and other accusations of such nature?

yes, in a round about way..

The following posts will be deleted or edited;

•Posts containing personal attack, swearing, foul language, political propaganda, and commercial advertisement better know as spam.
•Posts that are offensive to any ethnic, racial or religious groups or government. This isn't political forum.
•Posts that prompt hatred between different countries or groups of people. This includes,"Nationalistic chest thumping", "country bashing" remarks and underhanded attempts to insult various countries and governments.
•Meaningless arguments and inappropriate provocation of other members.

So let's all get back on track and knock off this silly bickering. Afterall the Olympics are just games.

bd popeye super moderator

Originally Posted by solarz

Of course not. Losing a match intentionally is nothing to boast about. However, is it fair to disqualify these players based on that? That's what the issue really is about. Considering that so many athletes of other countries manipulate or outright break the rules and get away with it, China would have been perfectly within its right to protest about the DQ.

As I already said, the decision to disqualify the players were unduly harsh and probably unfair and unjust considering they did not break any actual rules.

However, the harshness of the penalty had nothing to do with the nationality of the players and everything to do with image.

By playing to loose, the players exposed the idiocy in the officials for creating a system that made such tactics advantageous in the first place and that badly embarrassed the officials. In addition, the actions of the players generated some negative publicity and annoyance amongst the fans. I would put that as a distance secondary reason as apart from the fans who paid to watch the game live, I don't really think that many people were all that upset by players trying to deliberately loose. Most people would have just rolled the eyes and forgot about it.

It was no doubt a factor, but the main reason the officials were so harsh was because the players made them look like muppets for designing such a stupid system.