This is a discussion on Jeff Head's 1/350 Scale Naval Vessel Hobby Site within the Members' Club Room forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by siegecrossbow How long did the Saturn rocket take? Wasn't that a comment on a different picture? I ...
As a teenager I did build a Saturn V though, with the Command and LEM modules and it took several weeks. I wasn't nearly as patient or adept then...and did not have the tools either.
Later, it sadly had a massive failure on the launch pad and blew up...hehehe.
Last edited by Jeff Head; 06-05-2012 at 05:48 PM.
I have recently purchased two 1/350 scale Type 054A FFGs which just came out last week in China from Trumpeter. They will not be in the US stores until August, but the wonder of the internet and the world-wide market is that I can buy them in China now, and have them shipped here, which I did. It's the same thing I did with the the PLAN Carrier. That will round out my PLAN CSG centered on that new PLAB Carrier.
I also have pre-ordered two Type 45 Daring Class DDGs in 1/350 scale vessels by AirFix. They will not be available in the UK until August, but I have them pre-ordered so I will get them a month before they arrive for sale here in the states.
Also I added a pre-order for a 1/350 scale Trumpeter Type 23 FFG from the UK. This too will not be available in the States until late August or early September, but I should have it in late July here from China.
These last three will round out my UK CSG based on the HMS Illustrious...though what I am really looking for is a 1/350 scale HMS Queen Elizabeth or Prince of Wales CV which has not been developed or announced yet. I expect AirFix will put those models out eventually.
Anyhow...life rolls on.
Last edited by Jeff Head; 06-18-2012 at 02:15 PM.
No sence in putting a model out when that huge question may still be up in the air (pun intended...hehehe).
So, I expect once this supposedly finalized decision to revert back to STOBAR is made final by the way the vessel is constructed, that then we will see models of the class come out. I hope it's soon because I am anxious to get one.
What do you think, Obi Wan? Any word on if there is still a chance to go back to the CATOBAR configuartion (which, IMHO, for the long term is where the UKO should be)?
Last edited by Jeff Head; 06-18-2012 at 02:16 PM.
Politics. It's a very murky world, where the right thing only happens by accident, never by design. The 2010 SDSR changed the CVF project from two STOVL carriers to one CATOBAR and one immediately mothballed mega LPH. SecDef at the time, Dr Liam Fox was one of the few Tory politicians who actually understood Defence, most British Pollys have absolutely no idea what the armed forces do, or indeed why we still have them when WW2 ended so long ago!
Fox knew that the best 'bang for Buck would be via CATOBAR and F-35C, but Chancellor Osbourne was from the start out to cut huge sums from every department's budget. the whole 'only one carrier to be commissioned and the other mothballed' was a way of making the treasury think they had their pound of flesh, whislt keeping both ships in the building programme. Converting a second carrier to CATOBAR at a later date (early 2020s) was always on Fox's agenda and the MODs, but obviously it was not publicly mentioned officially lest the Treasury realised they had been duped. So far, so good, two new carriers for the RN which had escaped the axe. Carriers though are linked to the aircraft they carry...
...Enter developmental problems for the F-35C (tailhook related). To those in the know, nothing special, Big headlines scaring the ignorant and exaggerated beyond belief. IOC dates then start slipping mysteriously to the right (2018 became 2020, then 2023 and finally 2030!). The costs of conversion also started to mysteriously inflate beyond belief, without any substantive evidence being presented. The USN priced the cost of conversion at £458million per ship for equipment (EMALS and AAG) with installation costing another £400million. But on this side of the pond the cost per ship suddenly became £2Billion+ per ship! (£3Billion for QE herself). Simply unbelievable.
Because it was all nonsense.
Fox was ousted from the MOD because he rubbed other Tories up the wrong way, and was stupid enough to bring in a close friend as an unofficial advisor and let him into meetings he was not authorised to, in prefference to officials from the MOD. Replaced at short notice by Phillip Hammond, the Transport Secretary, known to be good at admin and balancing the books (he is strongly tipped to be the next Chancellor). He has miraculously eliminated the MOD's £38Billion 'Black Hole' in next to no time (because it never existed in the first place). Actually it was essentially composed of the £20Billion for Trident replacement, which was previously funded not by the MOD but directly from the Treasury. Osbourne changed that in 2010. Also there was the Army's FRES programme (Future Rapid Effects System,- don't you just love military acronyms? It basically covers all the Army's future combat vehicles other than tanks), costed at around £18Billion. Funny how those two add up to £38Billion...
2012, and Hammond is under pressure to come up with a few Billion more in savings. The CATOBAR conversion programme needs to be funded around now, so it comes into the firing line. But a U-turn is difficult to justify, so a case has to be built/fabricated. BAe systems see the lie of the land and jump aboard Hammond's bandwagon (fabricating the sky high costs of conversion in the process). Why? because they have a large investment in the Lightning II, especially the 'B. The projected delay to the service entry of the 'C meant there ws a possibility that the Lightning order would be cancelled in favour of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, being much cheaper and available now (and a plane which BAe has no financial interest in). The '35B however would mean STOVL carriers which could not take the Hornet, safeguarding BAe's business. The RAF also jumped aboard because they simply do not want the Hornet, they want the Lightning because it has Stealth, preserving their deep strike capability. The RN jumped aboard the U-turn bandwagon because I suspect they were promised that in return BOTH carriers would be commissioned instead of just one. SO different reasons for the same decision. Ulterior motives aplenty. The RAF is still talking as if the F-35Bs will be a wholly land based asset replacing the Tornado GR4s directly. The Navy has the rump of it's Harrier pilots in the US training on Super Hornets (9 pilots now, to be joined soon by 4 more) at NAS LeMoore, to gain the necessary experience in all round carrier ops. It is currently believed that the JFL (Joint Force Lightning) will have at least two NAS as well as two frontline RAF sqns and an OCU.
A further U-turn back to CATOBAR is highly unlikely now because it will just turn the whole process into Farce; a change of government to Labour in 2015 won't do it as they supported STOVL from the start. Unless the B gets cancelled there will be no cats and traps for the QEC for at least a decade.
"Without Organic Airpower at Sea (Aircraft Carriers), you don't have a Navy, You have a Coast Guard!"
Tragic. The UK is completely capable of building and fielding both CATOBAR carriers and doing it in a timely fashion if they simply have the will.
Apparently, the pols you have have no stomach or will for such things...not even their own defence, feeling that all that is spomehow past them now.
History has a way of making fools of such.
Well, if you get both carriers and if they are fully equipped with F-35Bs and the RN gets decent AEW and ASW support on the deck...and I mean something like a Osprey version for those functions that has much longer range and altitude and weapons carry advantages over helos, then they will still be very strong vessels.
Just too bad the UK will not have those CATOBARs. E-2D HAwkeyes, F/A-18F Superhorntets, F-35Cs, the whole range of capabilities...and cross deckoing to boot.
I guess I will go ahead and update my QE page now back to the STOBAR. Had been holding off in the hope against hope that maybe somehow it would revert...I mean the fact that it wnet STOBAR to CATOBAR and back to STOBAR is already a farce IMHO, why not one more to make it right?
Oh well, such is life.
For me and my 1/350 CSGs, it means the UK will start off with the Lusty, escorted by two Type 45 Darings and one Type 23 Duke, along with an Astute and a Trafalgar. Then, once there are models for them, I will add the QE and the Ocean if they become available, and another Type 23. That would be a nice strong grouping for sure. But to begin with it's:
R06 HMS Illustrious CVL
D32 HMS Daring DDG
D35 HMS Dragon DDG
F78 HMS Kent FFG
S120 HMS Ambush SSN
S93 HMS Triumph SSN
That should be a strong grouping as well to start. Heck, maybe I will buy some extra F-35Bs and show a fictitious Lusty with some JSFs embarked to sweeten the pot, and look for some 1/350 Ospreys (they make them for the 1/350 scale Wasp Class vessels) and scratch build four into two AEW and two ASW birds for the Lusty and really pretty her up.
Last edited by Jeff Head; 06-19-2012 at 03:18 PM.
So, Obi Wan and all. I have now ordered all that I can for my UK Carrier Group, adding an additional Type 23 Frigate. My UK group will look like this:
R06 HMS Illustrious CVL
D32 HMS Daring DDG
D35 HMS Dragon DDG
F78 HMS Kent FFG
F81 HMS Sutherland FFG
S120 HMS Ambush SSN
S93 HMS Triumph SSN
Some day I hope to add the Queen Elizabeth CV and the Ocean LPH when models of each are available (Come on AirFix!).
I have also now purchased the better part of a French Carrier Battle Group. I had to go to 1/400 scale (slightly smaller than the 1/350 scale vessels) because the French Model maker Heller is about the only company making the French vessels and that is their standard scale (French always have to be a little different!...but at least there are models of them).
What I have now purchased and have coming in the mail is the following:
R91 FR Charles de Gaulle CVN
D612 FR De Grasse DDG (Tourville Class ASW)
F713 FR Aconit (La Fayette Class)
F714 FR Guepratte FFG (La Fayette Class)
Charles de Gaulle
I want to get the Forbin D620 Horizon class DDG and the Perle S606 Rubis Class SSN but cannot find those models anywhere. I'm really surprised that there is no Italian or French Horizon class DDG out there in 1/350 scale. But oh well, you have to use what you can and I believe these four vessels will make a good start at a grouping though to be sure, one Horizon class is going to be with the De Gaulle whenever she is out and about the world's oceans so I hope I can get one of them some day. I may have to buy another Type 45 and do a scratch conversion as that model is about as close as I can find to a Horizon vessel.
There is a Heller 1/400 Suffren AAW DDG available, but they have all been long since decommissioned and I really want active vessels in these groups as much as possible and all of those vessels above are active. Revising the Type 45 into a Horizon may be the way to go.
This means I now have all the vessels necessary (and am in the process of building) CSGs for the US, UK, PLAN, and France. I will eventually be able to easily get the Russian vessels and already have the subs for it, but have emptied the piggy bank right now and it will be a while before I can afford to buy the five surface vessels I have outlined for the Russian group.
JEFF HEAD'S 1/350 SCALE CARRIER BATTLE GROUP MODELS
LATEST PROGRESS ON JEFF HEAD'S 1/350 SCALE USS ENTERPRISE BUILD
Last edited by Jeff Head; 09-17-2012 at 10:18 AM.