elite spoiled children in china

I'll preface my remarks by saying that I know, personally, what some here would term 'princelings' or 高干子弟 (lit: children of high officials), through college and work.

Out of the dozen or so I met, most of them were pretty normal--maybe a bit more tilted towards going into finance or law than most of us, but not really by much. All of them went to boarding schools in the US, Canada, or Britain.

It was about half and half in terms of how protective they were about their identities--some, like the grandson of Zhu Rongji, were pretty open about their identities (but not in an overbearing way--he'd just tell you if you asked him or if it came up in the conversation). Others, like the granddaughter of Jia Qinglin, were much more discreet about it (although you could tell that she was well-off).

One thing that did set them apart was the fact that they didn't seem very Chinese, in that their outlook on life was a lot more Western than other Chinese international students. Most Chinese internationals I know try to stay out of 'politics' in school--they don't join Greeks, or if they do, they don't try to lead them, nor do they do run for student government--but a lot of the princelings I met were quite comfortable (and successful) doing things like that. E.g. One of my best friends in college ended up running for student body VP his second year and winning as President his third year. Ironically enough, his dad served on the 中央宣传思想领导小组, or the Party's Leading Group on Propaganda and Ideological Affairs. We used to make fun of him for it, ask him whether his dad saw him as a "tool of Western imperialism". He would joke that it was okay since he could tell his dad he was the one calling the shots, not the other way around.

The other thing that set them apart was a greater willingness to take personal and professional risks. That guy I previously mentioned was comfortable enough to take a year off from school between his third and fourth year and go start a company with some friends in the Valley, and when he graduated, he continued with the startup even though it paid next to nothing--no student loans to worry about.

None of them were complete asshats like the person mentioned in the OP. All of them were decently intelligent and had a good work ethic. (Yes, even Bo Guagua--although he was a bit more socially aggressive than his peers). Most of them tried to fit in with the rest of their peer set--none of them did the dumb things undergrads sometimes try to do to make themselves look unique. I have a feeling the person in the OP is more of an outlier in terms of behavior than anything, although I can understand what sort of sociopolitical tendencies made such behavior more likely to manifest itself in him.

Overall--a nice enough group of guys and gals. (I even dated two of them--one of them had a dad who was a vice-minister of finance; the other's father headed a mid-sized SOE. It was kind of funny because both girls lived on opposite corners of the Gongzhufen subway station in Beijing, and when I got lost in that station and ended up exiting on the wrong side while going to see girlfriend #2 she chewed me out about my subconscious wanting to be with the other girl).

Originally Posted by t_co

I'll preface my remarks by saying that I know, personally, what some here would term 'princelings' or 高干子弟 (lit: children of high officials), through college and work.

Out of the dozen or so I met, most of them were pretty normal--maybe a bit more tilted towards going into finance or law than most of us, but not really by much. All of them went to boarding schools in the US, Canada, or Britain.

It was about half and half in terms of how protective they were about their identities--some, like the grandson of Zhu Rongji, were pretty open about their identities (but not in an overbearing way--he'd just tell you if you asked him or if it came up in the conversation). Others, like the granddaughter of Jia Qinglin, were much more discreet about it (although you could tell that she was well-off).

One thing that did set them apart was the fact that they didn't seem very Chinese, in that their outlook on life was a lot more Western than other Chinese international students. Most Chinese internationals I know try to stay out of 'politics' in school--they don't join Greeks, or if they do, they don't try to lead them, nor do they do run for student government--but a lot of the princelings I met were quite comfortable (and successful) doing things like that. E.g. One of my best friends in college ended up running for student body VP his second year and winning as President his third year. Ironically enough, his dad served on the 中央宣传思想领导小组, or the Party's Leading Group on Propaganda and Ideological Affairs. We used to make fun of him for it, ask him whether his dad saw him as a "tool of Western imperialism". He would joke that it was okay since he could tell his dad he was the one calling the shots, not the other way around.

The other thing that set them apart was a greater willingness to take personal and professional risks. That guy I previously mentioned was comfortable enough to take a year off from school between his third and fourth year and go start a company with some friends in the Valley, and when he graduated, he continued with the startup even though it paid next to nothing--no student loans to worry about.

None of them were complete asshats like the person mentioned in the OP. All of them were decently intelligent and had a good work ethic. (Yes, even Bo Guagua--although he was a bit more socially aggressive than his peers). Most of them tried to fit in with the rest of their peer set--none of them did the dumb things undergrads sometimes try to do to make themselves look unique. I have a feeling the person in the OP is more of an outlier in terms of behavior than anything, although I can understand what sort of sociopolitical tendencies made such behavior more likely to manifest itself in him.

Overall--a nice enough group of guys and gals. (I even dated two of them--one of them had a dad who was a vice-minister of finance; the other's father headed a mid-sized SOE. It was kind of funny because both girls lived on opposite corners of the Gongzhufen subway station in Beijing, and when I got lost in that station and ended up exiting on the wrong side while going to see girlfriend #2 she chewed me out about my subconscious wanting to be with the other girl).

hm....maybe you are "fortunate" enough to meet the "good" ones, but if you ask me, my friends, 60% of vancouver, etc...we all beg to differ. simply reminded of them already pisses the sh!t off out of me, and it's more than sufficient for me to say i'd receive a grand round of applause from my folks if i openly call those "elite kids" "complete human waste"

in vancouver, the following occurs: rude, no manner, excessively spoiled, narcisstic, wasteful, arrogant, disrespectful, throws wealth around, lack of concern to others and society, very rich, only cares about wealth, buys ferraris and expensive cars, money laundering, have powerful connections within their ring, some steals for fun, don't speak english a lot of times ( i don't really have problem with that usually, but then some of them you can tell, they just stick within their circle). they give us asians a very bad name, and especially the ones from china because even though the bad apples from hk and taiwan are bad, they aint as outrageous as those from china. they literally stink up the entire city, that i feel so sad they are nothing but embarrassment and destruction of multiculturalism. to further my point, it's only last year or so when a bunch of them were caught illegal racing on the highway in their ferraris. when they were pulled over and arrested, some even took photos of "this unique experience of being pulled over by the cops". the story was big in vancouver and everyone knew about it, and they simply reflect the scums their parents' reproductive organs had produced.
there are still some who arent bad..of course..
but anyways, generally speaking, our experiences with them are terrible
locals hate them, integrated immigrants like myself( and my friends who immigrated here and lived here many years) hated them, other groups hated them, and even folks in hk, taiwan hate them too.
with that said, im sorry to say, but WE definitely don't have that "positive" of an experience as yours. i'd hope you're not biased and not defending them and it's just simply you had good experiences with them, but for us, we definitely don't see it that way.


Ferrari and Lamborghini among $2 million of supercars seized in B.C. street race
"Now with power, comes speed and this young clique (all under-21) decided to try and stretch them out to over 200 km/h on a public road. At one point, the group would hang back slowing up traffic so that the leaders could race highway runs in pairs. Highway 99 in Surrey, B.C. was the sight of this multi-cylinder procession that attracted a lot of attention on a clear mid-afternoon... cops included. Other motorists snitched and the authorities closed in to intercept the speeding vehicles before anyone was injured during the looming rush hour.

In a double face-palm moment, some of the mega-hp vehicles were wearing green "N" novice driver decals meaning they probably can't even parallel park let alone handle a 563hp SLS AMG at man's speeds. But for these boys, they had a great excuse because they were headed towards the town of White Rock for a friend's going-away party!? Why even talk, just lawyer-up!

EDIT: The driver of the Audi R8, identified as Matt Zhang has gone on record as saying they were exceeding 200 km/h but obeying the law otherwise. We're not sure what that means but here is the video admission of guilt!"
That's your "a nice enough group of guys and gals."

and this forum is full of them showing off their wealth and praising "oh so wealthy", when in fact speaking of themselves
"http://forum.vanpeople.com/showtopic-168637.php
http://forum.vanpeople.com/showtopic-168700.php
" 今天街上看到的一豪车，我以为是谁家的床单掉了。
温哥华的牛逼车可真多"

and here we go, just another link of them bragging of their extravagence
http://forum.vanpeople.com/showtopic-168637.php
" 深圳16岁顶级富二代的奢华生活
照片里这个没戴眼镜，穿黑衣服的小正太就是传说中的顶级富二代了。
私人保镖，私人飞机。
不过小孩长得真可爱，怪不得富翁都喜欢选漂亮有素质的女人当老婆。基因很重要啊！"

and let's not forget "my dad is li gang". http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...six_years.htmlso with all due respect, you must be very lucky to meet a group who happens to be so "exceptionally" good that gives you such a "positive" impression, but i'm sure the rest of china, tw, and hk won't share the same sentiments at all.
in fact, i dare to say that this group of waste of food represents the stench of china's negative side

I think whether the so-called 'princelings' are "spoiled" or "nice" is beside the issue. Their very existance and the life they lead reflected on the social injustice of the one-party-rule in China. How can you ask common chinese to feel good about them? The "spoiled" is just a label to put on them so public can have some relief of their resentment.

I know a lot of chinese whose families are by no means wealthy but very spoiled. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with wealth but rather have a lot to do with one-child policy. My father and mother both have many siblings. They learned sharing, responsibility and group work when they were very young. I, being the only child, am much more individualistic in my approach to life. Child with parents that yield to them incessantly is called "little emperor", this is a common phenomena in China, not limited to rich. Those "little emperors" grow up unchanlleged and, as a result, do not acquire good social skills.

Originally Posted by ahadicow

I think whether the so-called 'princelings' are "spoiled" or "nice" is beside the issue. Their very existance and the life they lead reflected on the social injustice of the one-party-rule in China. How can you ask common chinese to feel good about them? The "spoiled" is just a label to put on them so public can have some relief of their resentment.

I know a lot of chinese whose families are by no means wealthy but very spoiled. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with wealth but rather have a lot to do with one-child policy. My father and mother both have many siblings. They learned sharing, responsibility and group work when they were very young. I, being the only child, am much more individualistic in my approach to life. Child with parents that yield to them incessantly is called "little emperor", this is a common phenomena in China, not limited to rich. Those "little emperors" grow up unchanlleged and, as a result, do not acquire good social skills.

That's very right. In psychology we look at the causes leading up to them, and it seems like the one child policy combined with the contemporary mainland chinese societal values on wealth and materialism had bred poor parenting and of course, their pitiful residues. of course there always remain a few who aren't like that, and it's definitely a shame that for what China is today, the beautiful artful traditions and moralistic values in its culture could not be displayed by some of its contemporary descendants.

These issues also reflect one more very important thing that hopefully some forum members would come to acknowledge: while prejudice and discrimination aint good, inexcusable, and is certainly an issue to be recognized by people of hk and taiwan in seeing mainland china, the other half causes are also to do with the behaviors and conducts of some of these mainland chinese people. their actions are displayed most vividly with their interaction with other groups, and their actions and behavior disrespects and offends who they come in contact with. this earn a bad stereotype or others to associate thats how chinese are, unfortunately.

here is a standard case of how bad parenting creates residues to live on their stinking legacies:

Sharp Daily 爽å*± - 20130220 - 門常開：強國細路自由屙　ç¿*è�¯ä¾�æ‡‰è‡ ªç„¶å�«
"細路自由屙　翠華侍應自然叫

「世通假期」逼旅客瞓旅遊巴好離譜，亦有茶餐廳對同胞唔夠體貼被投訴。話說喺強國嘅「十六番旅遊社區」，有 同胞發帖分享港澳遊慘痛經歷，佢哋一家八口去尖沙嘴加連威老道嘅源記茶餐廳，想話包房食嘢，點知「瘸腿」嘅 侍應話人均消費要100蚊港紙，有錢就入得，同胞豪氣幫襯，但投訴跟餐嘅奶茶遲遲未送到，覺得 俾人歧視。

有同胞體諒文化差異

後嚟佢哋去加拿芬道嘅翠華餐廳，兩歲囝囝話尿急，大人即刻搵個角落，拎出隨身攜帶嘅膠樽畀佢當眾尿尿，點知 有個女侍應見到，大叫五次「二樓有廁所」，搞到成間舖啲人都望住。同胞好委屈咁解釋：「寶寶小，怕上二樓就 來不及，要尿在褲子上，天氣冷，怕他感冒。」仲埋怨如果真心為食客着想，應該細細聲講，咁樣係 針對大陸人。

好彩唔少同胞體諒香港嘅文化差異，有人認為源記做法夠均真，而樓主更加係歧視殘疾人士；亦有網友激讚翠華侍 應反應快，「服務員叫嚷也有可能是着急了，我估計，人家走到了，你家小孩的問題也已經解決好了」。但亦有人 苦心勸同胞：「麻煩你沒素質不要隨便亂出門。」
翠華發言人話當時店面人多嘈雜，加上侍應嘅普通話唔太靈光，所以大聲咁提醒幾次，如果令客人難受，願意致歉 ，但強調翠華係有牌食肆，唔容許任何影響食肆衞生同安全嘅行為。"

very pathetic parenting. "worried" that the kid can't hold it in and therefore can pee anywhere? that just won't teach kids the understanding of holding in impulse and to respect the society.

I'm wondering if there is a big difference between the "true" elites and the "middling" elites. I.E. Those officials of the central government, or those officials of local counties.

From what I've heard, local officials are often far more corrupt and unrestrained than central government officials. I'm reminded of a story about some local official who tapped Song Zuying on her, presumably bare, shoulders. These guys are used to be the one in charge most of the time, while officials in the central government, although theoretically higher ranked, have to work under the scrutiny of their bosses.

I also think the influence of the one-child policy is vastly exaggerated. I am an only child, my wife is an only child, several of my closest friends are also only children. We each have our own personality and family issues, but on the whole we are no more or less well adjusted than my other friends who have siblings.

Originally Posted by solarz

I'm wondering if there is a big difference between the "true" elites and the "middling" elites. I.E. Those officials of the central government, or those officials of local counties.

From what I've heard, local officials are often far more corrupt and unrestrained than central government officials. I'm reminded of a story about some local official who tapped Song Zuying on her, presumably bare, shoulders. These guys are used to be the one in charge most of the time, while officials in the central government, although theoretically higher ranked, have to work under the scrutiny of their bosses.

I also think the influence of the one-child policy is vastly exaggerated. I am an only child, my wife is an only child, several of my closest friends are also only children. We each have our own personality and family issues, but on the whole we are no more or less well adjusted than my other friends who have siblings.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I speculate that the kids of the top tier central government elites are probably more discreet than those middle tier parents (or business people who are simply rich). Of course I can only speculate because I've never personally met any of those top tier kids. The international students I met back in highschool in Vancouver were pretty rich, but not that show-off-ish.

Yeah I think the wealth culture in China is particular bad because of suppressed individuality prevalent in Confucian Societies. People want to express themselves but the society expects you to remain docile and silent, so they turn to brands and money to show off their individuality.

I have had very little exposure to the so called "princelings" or the rich elite but I did meet one while interning/temp'ing at Huawei's North American HQ a few years back that did not fit the profile of what I hear on the news. She was a daughter of China Mobile executive but tried to shy away from her wealthy background and influence, living in company dorm and working at a cleric position as a summer internship, etc. She was actually a very affable and likable with a bubbly personality which is really surprising b/c that's completely different from even most FOBs let alone a rich daughter of a Chinese executive. But yeah I suspect the general notion of them being true, especially among the newly rich.

However the general trend is there is a transition point where the flaunting rich start to flaunt their "class culture" rather than money and become a little more bearable.

Originally Posted by solarz

I also think the influence of the one-child policy is vastly exaggerated. I am an only child, my wife is an only child, several of my closest friends are also only children. We each have our own personality and family issues, but on the whole we are no more or less well adjusted than my other friends who have siblings.

Depends on what do you want to be "adjusted" to. In an industral-capitalist society, individualism and rational self-interest are considered to be well adjusted. In a communitarian feudal society a.k.a medival China, such personality would have hard time survive. There is a general trend in the west, I think, for societies to become more indvidualistic and fragmented because of technology, because of economy and because of mordern culture. Therefore, for the world I found myself to be in, my attitude doesn't seem so bad.

However, just last December when I went to theatre to watch Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, I couldn't help but to notice how communitarian is the vision expressed in that moive. The Lord of the Ring itself is a story of communities and my individualistic vision of the world had enstranged me to that concept to the point that I can hardly understand it. For example, I don't know what heck is a "fellowship" when I watched Fellowship of the Ring, so I used to think that movie is an insult to my intelligence.

This had led me to think a lot of the stuff. One of the first is my education. I always hated chinese schools. The teachers are always right and harbor an inherent hatred for creativity and orignality, everything you do there is suppose to help you pass the exam to go to universities. I had always rebelled against those and my ultimate rebellion is to give chinese universities the finger and study abroad. Now, when I look back, I think I might be wrong. Maybe school is not there only to teach me knowledge but also help me to find a place in a community. In my urge to express myself and shrug off my percieved "oppression", I refused to learn how to compromise, how to reach consensus, how to be a leader.

My father had told me I was "meant to go out" (meaning China). Now I think about it, that is a statement of fact, a blessing and a condamnation all at once. Chinese trandition had always been communitarian. My refusal to accept that part of my heritage had led me to my present self-exile. Confucianism is all about how the individual can be contended with the collective. When I finally start to understand some of the Confucianist text hammered to me in my school, I had a strange but distinctive feeling of shame. I might not be "spoiled" in ways that I have entitlement problem, but I am very spoiled in the sense that I do not embody the virtue of my ancestors.

In any case, My life is in the process of a paradigm shift to recocile myself with my chinese heritage, I discovered sinodefense on that process. The suprise, for me, is the more I learned of ancient chinese thinkers, the more they blow me away with their sophitication of thought, elegent metaphoric argument and the relevence of those thousands-years-old thinking to today's world. So I totally agree with airsuperiority that it is a gravious shame that many chinese youth know next to nothing about their cultural heritage and had filled their mind entirely with imported values.

All in all, the word "spoiled" could be interpreted in many different ways. It could mean hedonism, which is all but become a social norm in the better part of the world. It could mean a lack of the sense of social responsibility. It could also mean someone who lacks tranditional virtues of his/her culture. In all these cases, I think there are very good guidances offered in tranditional chinese thought. On personal level, chinese youth should have more knowledge/respect of their cultural heritage. Moreover, China as a whole still has a lot soul-searching to do about its past.

There's a difference between Elite and Rich, while there are many overlaps, they are not always the same. People in China can become rich without even fully realizing how it happened, those are the worst offenders. I have seen my fair share of them, I wouldn't say they are a rare breed, but they are definitely not representative of the elite as a whole.

I have many friends who come from rich backgrounds, but aside from luxury mansions(mostly for their mothers) there are few telling signs, even the cars they drive are simply above average. Many of them work full time jobs just like anyone else, despite how those jobs would never pay enough in a lifetime to make a significant difference when compared to the wealth they would inherit. They continue to work and improve themselves in the hopes that one day they can make their own fortune.

The real elite don't care about where you came from, they look at where you are going. If you have 10 billion only because you started with 10 billion, then you are still a big fat zero.

I think the reason some of you haven't had many good experiences with them is probably because you simply don't know who is elite. You only see the surface, just like how whiners get a disproportionate amount of attention, the spoiled rich second gen is overly emphasized.

Originally Posted by xywdx

There's a difference between Elite and Rich, while there are many overlaps, they are not always the same. People in China can become rich without even fully realizing how it happened, those are the worst offenders. I have seen my fair share of them, I wouldn't say they are a rare breed, but they are definitely not representative of the elite as a whole.

.......

The real elite don't care about where you came from, they look at where you are going. If you have 10 billion only because you started with 10 billion, then you are still a big fat zero.

I think the reason some of you haven't had many good experiences with them is probably because you simply don't know who is elite. You only see the surface, just like how whiners get a disproportionate amount of attention, the spoiled rich second gen is overly emphasized.

Congratulation sir, You understood elitism in its essence. Look, I am very rich. The reason that I'm rich has absolutely nothing to do with the opptunities that my society had presented me or the work and effort of anyone invloved in my enterprise or the gracious gift of nature or the knowledge that scholars and educators allow me to share for free or anything else. It is ALL ME. Because you know what? I call gold into existence from thin air, That's what I do. There are always people who don't understand being such as I and called me lucky or fortunate and all those dirty names, but, finally, someone understood. You and I should Definitely keep in touch.

/sarcasm

Originally Posted by ahadicow

Depends on what do you want to be "adjusted" to. In an industral-capitalist society, individualism and rational self-interest are considered to be well adjusted. In a communitarian feudal society a.k.a medival China, such personality would have hard time survive. There is a general trend in the west, I think, for societies to become more indvidualistic and fragmented because of technology, because of economy and because of mordern culture. Therefore, for the world I found myself to be in, my attitude doesn't seem so bad.

However, just last December when I went to theatre to watch Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, I couldn't help but to notice how communitarian is the vision expressed in that moive. The Lord of the Ring itself is a story of communities and my individualistic vision of the world had enstranged me to that concept to the point that I can hardly understand it. For example, I don't know what heck is a "fellowship" when I watched Fellowship of the Ring, so I used to think that movie is an insult to my intelligence.

This had led me to think a lot of the stuff. One of the first is my education. I always hated chinese schools. The teachers are always right and harbor an inherent hatred for creativity and orignality, everything you do there is suppose to help you pass the exam to go to universities. I had always rebelled against those and my ultimate rebellion is to give chinese universities the finger and study abroad. Now, when I look back, I think I might be wrong. Maybe school is not there only to teach me knowledge but also help me to find a place in a community. In my urge to express myself and shrug off my percieved "oppression", I refused to learn how to compromise, how to reach consensus, how to be a leader.

My father had told me I was "meant to go out" (meaning China). Now I think about it, that is a statement of fact, a blessing and a condamnation all at once. Chinese trandition had always been communitarian. My refusal to accept that part of my heritage had led me to my present self-exile. Confucianism is all about how the individual can be contended with the collective. When I finally start to understand some of the Confucianist text hammered to me in my school, I had a strange but distinctive feeling of shame. I might not be "spoiled" in ways that I have entitlement problem, but I am very spoiled in the sense that I do not embody the virtue of my ancestors.

In any case, My life is in the process of a paradigm shift to recocile myself with my chinese heritage, I discovered sinodefense on that process. The suprise, for me, is the more I learned of ancient chinese thinkers, the more they blow me away with their sophitication of thought, elegent metaphoric argument and the relevence of those thousands-years-old thinking to today's world. So I totally agree with airsuperiority that it is a gravious shame that many chinese youth know next to nothing about their cultural heritage and had filled their mind entirely with imported values.

All in all, the word "spoiled" could be interpreted in many different ways. It could mean hedonism, which is all but become a social norm in the better part of the world. It could mean a lack of the sense of social responsibility. It could also mean someone who lacks tranditional virtues of his/her culture. In all these cases, I think there are very good guidances offered in tranditional chinese thought. On personal level, chinese youth should have more knowledge/respect of their cultural heritage. Moreover, China as a whole still has a lot soul-searching to do about its past.

Furthermore, people today are so swept with work and making a living that the most important things: moral values, family, self realization, what life means..etc.. all are forgotten. We become slaves to our own society. Absolutely sad. To make it worse, many pass these false meanings of life(work, money, fame) to their next generation without truly teaching the real aspects of what's important.
I see this happening in many places. HK, taiwan, China, Japan, wherever you can name. As we're talking about China here, we're of course dealing with how important values aren't taught, but rather a brainwashed and hollow worldview(money, fame) are, and how in essence, "parents" only become a definition of biological entity, but not actually carriers of what it truly means to be parents.

Seriously, look at those photos and videos. How do those kids become like this? I put 80% on their parents. It's true that peers also influence, but if the fact some members here meet decent ones(myself included), then this show that there must be something that's working, and something that's not. Most importantly, it's all a matter of giving a soul and a mind to your children, which makes them human. This is the true gift that they can receive.

雲å�—政å�”誤航ç�*ç*¸å£žç™»æ©Ÿå�£è¨*æ–½ - 有線寬é*» i-CABLE
"雲 南 一 名 政 協 委 員 因 為 趕 不 及 上 飛 機 ， 於 登 機 閘 口 大 吵 大 鬧 ， 破 壞 櫃 檯 電 腦 和 玻 璃 門 。

從 上 載 到 互 聯 網 的 片 段 看 到 ， 一 名 男 子 將 登 機 證 交 給 機 場 職 員 掃 描 ， 但 閘 口 已 關 ， 他 和 一 名 女 子 ， 以 及 兩 名 小 童 都 不 能 上 飛 機 。 經 過 一 輪 爭 論 後 ， 該 名 男 子 突 然 扯 走 櫃 檯 上 的 電 腦 ， 之 後 更 拿 起 硬 物 打 破 閘 口 玻 璃 門 ~"

With savages like these as parents, of course it won't do children any good, and won't teach the children any good values.

One more thing.

In lord of the flies, ralph and piggy warned against jack and rogers' intention to kill the pig. ralph and piggy knew that by killing the pig, they kill off one of their most important food source. they demonstrate an understanding of source of their food and where it comes from, and what it is this island that offers them. and this is what will keep them survive. same idea goes here. survive or falter depends on the person's abilities to understand and cherish what their society gives them and how they have what they access to. without such, one won't understand the scarcity and uncertainty of life and what one has, and ultimately will eventually be a loser. loser as in either losing what they once owned, or even what makes human a human.

Originally Posted by airsuperiority

Furthermore, people today are so swept with work and making a living that the most important things: moral values, family, self realization, what life means..etc.. all are forgotten. We become slaves to our own society. Absolutely sad. To make it worse, many pass these false meanings of life(work, money, fame) to their next generation without truly teaching the real aspects of what's important.
I see this happening in many places. HK, taiwan, China, Japan, wherever you can name. As we're talking about China here, we're of course dealing with how important values aren't taught, but rather a brainwashed and hollow worldview(money, fame) are, and how in essence, "parents" only become a definition of biological entity, but not actually carriers of what it truly means to be parents.

Seriously, look at those photos and videos. How do those kids become like this? I put 80% on their parents. It's true that peers also influence, but if the fact some members here meet decent ones(myself included), then this show that there must be something that's working, and something that's not. Most importantly, it's all a matter of giving a soul and a mind to your children, which makes them human. This is the true gift that they can receive.

雲å�—政å�”誤航ç�*ç*¸å£žç™»æ©Ÿå�£è¨*æ–½ - 有線寬é*» i-CABLE
"雲 南 一 名 政 協 委 員 因 為 趕 不 及 上 飛 機 ， 於 登 機 閘 口 大 吵 大 鬧 ， 破 壞 櫃 檯 電 腦 和 玻 璃 門 。

從 上 載 到 互 聯 網 的 片 段 看 到 ， 一 名 男 子 將 登 機 證 交 給 機 場 職 員 掃 描 ， 但 閘 口 已 關 ， 他 和 一 名 女 子 ， 以 及 兩 名 小 童 都 不 能 上 飛 機 。 經 過 一 輪 爭 論 後 ， 該 名 男 子 突 然 扯 走 櫃 檯 上 的 電 腦 ， 之 後 更 拿 起 硬 物 打 破 閘 口 玻 璃 門 ~"

With savages like these as parents, of course it won't do children any good, and won't teach the children any good values.

One more thing.

In lord of the flies, ralph and piggy warned against jack and rogers' intention to kill the pig. ralph and piggy knew that by killing the pig, they kill off one of their most important food source. they demonstrate an understanding of source of their food and where it comes from, and what it is this island that offers them. and this is what will keep them survive. same idea goes here. survive or falter depends on the person's abilities to understand and cherish what their society gives them and how they have what they access to. without such, one won't understand the scarcity and uncertainty of life and what one has, and ultimately will eventually be a loser. loser as in either losing what they once owned, or even what makes human a human.

well, don't worry too much. I'm fully confident that the societies before ours are just courrupt and morally bankrupt. Humanity endured. What's more, I do think the situation is much better now then it was not very long ago. If you take a look of what world was like in 60s, we wouldn't have the luxury to be concerned oursalves with wall street types. Back then, human's were still fighting the racial war and the sex war and the vietnem war. There were political assinations in US and culture revolution in China. I mean who gave a d*** to environment and animals at those days?

That's why histroy is your friend. When you're disappointed, when you felt hopeless, just read history. I always instantly felt better after lamenting what happened in the past how much progress had been made by the morally exceptional in each page of the human histroy. 2000 years ago Romans are crucifying Jesus, in 20 person's lifespan, whether animals deserve to die as food become a legitmate topic of debate, it's a miracle.

Originally Posted by ahadicow

well, don't worry too much. I'm fully confident that the societies before ours are just courrupt and morally bankrupt. Humanity endured. What's more, I do think the situation is much better now then it was not very long ago. If you take a look of what world was like in 60s, we wouldn't have the luxury to be concerned oursalves with wall street types. Back then, human's were still fighting the racial war and the sex war and the vietnem war. There were political assinations in US and culture revolution in China. I mean who gave a d*** to environment and animals at those days?

That's why histroy is your friend. When you're disappointed, when you felt hopeless, just read history. I always instantly felt better after lamenting what happened in the past how much progress had been made by the morally exceptional in each page of the human histroy. 2000 years ago Romans are crucifying Jesus, in 20 person's lifespan, whether animals deserve to die as food become a legitmate topic of debate, it's a miracle.

i like ur positive outlook and i agree to it.

but unfortunately, change only occurs when we don't have anything. once we're settled with what we have, we are reluctant to change, for in fear of losing. in other words, today we dwell the energies that we have in ourselves by spending it on material wealth. change is now left for obama and those who claim it, to show, while we get to watch and see his report card, and feel we have the right to criticize when he doesnt meet what our fantasies, all the while we have our arms crossed. we let others do our job. only fools believe in change. we are content with what we have, knowing it is heaven. people who don't have what we have, means they deserve it, and its up to them to do it, not us, as we are in full legitimacy to our own enjoyment and wealth. if they cant get it, then it just means heaven has no place for them.

that, my friend, is me describing to you the progress of humanity's spirit towards humanism and meaning of life, since the beginning of 95 theses, to obama's pronounces for change and this very exact moment.

this is the prevalent culture of today, of people's attitudes. it's true we had progressed, but in all my heart, i always asked, how many f--king billion people do we pass by before the next change appears? is it a random selection like lottery?

regardless, i'm disappointed.