Civil Strife Grips Thailand

...as a follow on to the above post....

The RED Shirts in Thailand battle the police and Army in the streets of Bangkok. 51 dead so far in the last two weeks.

















GRAPHIC IMAGE

GRAPHIC IMAGE

BANGKOK, THAILAND - MAY 15: Anti-government red shirt protester battle the army & police during street clashes as the violence in central part of the city escalates on May 15, 2010 in Bangkok, Thailand. So far at least 154 have been injured and over 20 killed in the clashes as the military and the government launched an operation to disperse anti-government protesters who have closed parts of the city for two months. A state of emergency is in effect that spreads to 17 provinces in the country. The Thai army declared certain protest areas where clashes are taking place as a 'Live Fire Zone.'

Some more PIX from Thailand That I posted yesterday in another forum..

Thai soldiers clash with "Red-Shirt" anti-government protestors and others during an operation to secure an area near Lumpini Park in downtown Bangkok, Thailand, Friday, May 14, 2010. Troops fired bullets and tear gas at anti-government protesters rioting near the U.S. and Japanese embassies as an army push to clear the streets sparked bloody clashes and turned central Bangkok into a virtual war zone.

Anti-government protestors fire home made rockets at soldiers in an area near Lumpini Park in downtown bangkok, Thailand, Friday, May 14, 2010.

QUOTE]Anti-government demonstrators throw cement blocks at fire trucks near Lumpini Park in downtown bangkok, Thailand, Friday, May 14, 2010.[/QUOTE]

NFSW

To be safe I put the NFSW tag on the photo above...

A 'Red Shirt' anti-government protestor gestures at Thai soldiers as he stands on a road divider with his pants down during a stand-off near their protest site in downtown Bangkok on May 14, 2010.

WARNING!! GRAPHIC IMAGE!!

A man holds the hand of a wounded Thai red shirt demonstrator after he was shot by soldiers trying to disperse a crowd of people moving towards the red shirts fortified camp in the central financial district of downtown Bangkok on May 13, 2010. A Thai protest leader was seriously wounded as gunshots and an explosion rang out at a vast protest camp in Bangkok after the army threatened to seal off the site, a hospital source said. The violence came after Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva shelved a plan for November elections and hopes faded for an imminent resolution to a crippling two-month crisis that has sparked outbreaks of violence, leaving 29 people dead and 1,000 injured.

Of all the places I've ever visited in my life Thailand is the one place where a person would feel as though peace would reign.
Not so.

The situation there is quickly developing into Civil war. What will be the reaction of the rest of Asia to the strife in Thailand?? Will China have a role? Will this situation be over in a few weeks? Will it develop to a full fledged civil war??

Crisis deepens as urban warfare rages in Bangkok - Yahoo! News

by Anusak Konglang Anusak Konglang – Sat May 15, 6:25 pm ET

BANGKOK (AFP) – Thai troops Sunday remained locked in a tense confrontation with anti-government protesters in the capital where at least 24 people have been killed and almost 200 wounded in two days of violent unrest.

Raging violence in the heart of Bangkok claimed eight lives Saturday as the embattled prime minister vowed no turning back and the army threatened a crackdown on thousands of protesters.

Two days of street battles between soldiers and anti-government "Red Shirts" have left 24 people dead, all civilians, and 187 wounded. The military declared one area of Bangkok a "live fire zone" as troops struggled to regain control.

Scenes of urban warfare erupted on the southern and northern fringes of the Red Shirts' sprawling encampment in the heart of Bangkok, after the army moved in Thursday to seal off the area.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, who last week shelved a plan to hold early elections because the protesters refused to disperse, warned the government "cannot turn back" in the two-month standoff.

Soldiers Saturday opened fire on demonstrators, some of them armed or hurling Molotov cocktails, as plumes of black smoke billowed from burning tyres.

More than 50 people have been killed and 1,600 wounded since the protests began on March 12, according to figures from the emergency services and the public health ministry.

"The current situation is almost full civil war," said a protest leader, Jatuporn Prompan. "I am not sure how this conflict will end."

The army warned it would move against the demonstrators' main rally site unless they dispersed, but gave no timetable for any such action.

"There is a plan to crack down on Ratchaprasong if the protest does not end," said army spokesman Sunsern Kaewkumnerd.

"But authorities will not set a deadline because without effective planning there will be more loss of life."

For two months thousands of protesters have turned a large area of Bangkok into a virtual state within a state, crippling a retail and hotel district and disrupting daily life for residents in the city of 12 million people.

The kingdom has been riven by political turmoil since the Reds' hero, former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was ousted in a bloodless coup in 2006. Its society is deeply divided between the urban elite and rural poor.

The rally site, where demonstrators sleep on mats on the ground and listen to speeches and music blasted from giant speakers, stretches for several square kilometres (miles). It is fortified with razor wire, bamboo stakes and piles of tyres.

The mostly poor and working class Reds say the government is elitist and undemocratic because it came to power in a 2008 parliamentary vote after a court ruling ousted elected allies of Thaksin.

Protest leaders have called for the intervention of revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej, 82. But the monarch, seen as a unifying force, has been hospitalised since September and has avoided commenting directly in public on the crisis.

Can anyone give a summary or link a good source on the story of players and what led to this unrest in general? I've been reading comments in Yahoo and some Thais are trying link China in with this. First I thought they were protest supporters but apparently they're saying the protestors are supporters of ousted Thanksin(?) who they say simply because he's part Chinese and the protestors call themselves "Redshirts" there is Chinese involvement. Then I read about how the protestors are from the poorer region demonstrating against corruption where only the few benefit from the Thai government. Well since I've heard that many of the business class in Thailand are part Chinese, that sort of contradicts everything else. Really confusing. Thanks.

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace

Can anyone give a summary or link a good source on the story of players and what led to this unrest in general? I've been reading comments in Yahoo and some Thais are trying link China in with this. First I thought they were protest supporters but apparently they're saying the protestors are supporters of ousted Thanksin(?) who they say simply because he's part Chinese and the protestors call themselves "Redshirts" there is Chinese involvement. Then I read about how the protestors are from the poorer region demonstrating against corruption where only the few benefit from the Thai government. Well since I've heard that many of the business class in Thailand are part Chinese, that sort of contradicts everything else. Really confusing. Thanks.

This really doesn't have anything to do with China. Also, don't use Yahoo comments to form opinions. I have never seen anything stupider than Yahoo comments. If you read them long enough you'd think the Thailand riots were Obama's fault.

Anyway, as I understand it, it all goes back to the fact that Thaksin Shinawatra, when he was prime minister, had very populist economic policies. He also used his large telecommunications and media companies to help win elections. Shinawatra was removed form power in 2006 by the Army after he was charged with corruption and "manipulating the electorate" or something. He probably was corrupt, but what politician in a country like Thailand isn't? Thanksin fled and I think he's in Dubai now. His real crime was that he wasn't playing by the rules of the elite in Thailand. Because in Thailand, the King and the Army hold a huge amount of power behind the scenes.

So after the coup elections were held and the Thaksin-supporting party won again but after a bunch of protests by the PAD aka "Yellow Shirts" (upper/upper middle class pro-king anti-Thaksin political group) the Constitutional Court overturned the results of the election, another election was held, and this time the candidate of the PAD won, the current PM, Abhisit Vejajivya. He is strongly backed by the Army, the King and the elite in general. The "Red Shirts" (lower class Thaksin supporters, mainly from the countryside) have also taken to the streets, because understandly they're pissed at losing what I think is more or less fairly earned power.

Basically its the lower classes and countryside provinces against the upper class Bangkok elite, which is mainly supported by the King and the Army. Thaksin Shinawatra is a corrupt son of a bitch most likely but its not about him anymore. It's about the divisions in Thai society, which makes it very dangerous.

However I don't think civil war will result. I hope that cleared things up.

Also, I got to say considering the circumstances the Thai Army has done a fairly good job of avoiding civilian casualties.

I would say that of Yahoo too, but some of these posters had some sense of knowledge of what was going on and who the players are unlike the rest of the posts.

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace View Post
Can anyone give a summary or link a good source on the story of players and what led to this unrest in general?

Before you read my comments below..it is not my intention to flame anyone...

Find it yourself. Google is your friend or what ever search engine you use.

Those links I posted are indeed from yahoo. But the news source that yahoo uses is AP...

Protesters urge peace talks to end Bangkok battles



See ^^ that little block? AP the Associated Press. That's is one of the many news sources yahoo uses. And many of our members do not trust any western news source no matter who writes it. That's a fact. As for me I just read the first few paragraphs of the story just to get the meat of it. We all know there has long been political infighting in Thailand. They had a military takeover about two years ago. It is what it is.

Protesters urge peace talks to end Bangkok battles - Yahoo! News

By DENIS D. GRAY, Associated Press Writer Denis D. Gray, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 25 mins ago

BANGKOK – Thailand's Red Shirts offered peace talks Monday to end raging street battles that have killed at least 37 people in Bangkok as a government deadline demanding the demonstrators vacate a protest zone passed without capitulation.

Helicopters buzzed over the demonstration site fortified with long wooden spikes and tires in the heart of the capital's commercial district, dropping leaflets ordering anyone inside to leave immediately.

The dead from clashes that erupted last Thursday include the military strategist of the Red Shirts, who succumbed Monday to a gunshot wound from a sniper attack last week. Maj. Gen. Khattiya Sawasdiphol's death raised fears of new violence in this Southeast Asian nation, which has been wracked by political turmoil and violence since mid-March.

A luxury hotel was the scene of a heated pre-dawn gunbattle Monday and later closed its doors. Loud blasts reverberated outside the main protest zone through the night as sustained bursts of automatic rifle fire echoed through the once-bustling business and shopping area.

The political conflict is Thailand's deadliest and most prolonged in decades, and each passing day of violence deeply divides in this nation of 65 million — a key U.S. ally and Southeast Asia's second-largest economy. Thailand has long been considered a democratic oasis in Southeast Asia, and the unrest has shaken faith in its ability to restore and maintain stability.

The Red Shirts, many of whom hail from the impoverished north and northeast, say Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's coalition government came to power through manipulation of the courts and the backing of the powerful military, and that it symbolizes a national elite indifferent to their plight.

A Red Shirt leader, Jatuporn Prompan, said the only hope now to end the violence was intervention by Thailand's revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej. Another protest leader, Nattawut Saikua, said the Red Shirts are ready to negotiate and to submit themselves to the courts.

On a lighthearted note I guess the Thai protesters weren't exactly knowledgeable of star trek.

this is what G20 will prolly be like in a couple of months here in toronto

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace

Can anyone give a summary or link a good source on the story of players and what led to this unrest in general? I've been reading comments in Yahoo and some Thais are trying link China in with this. First I thought they were protest supporters but apparently they're saying the protestors are supporters of ousted Thanksin(?) who they say simply because he's part Chinese and the protestors call themselves "Redshirts" there is Chinese involvement. Then I read about how the protestors are from the poorer region demonstrating against corruption where only the few benefit from the Thai government. Well since I've heard that many of the business class in Thailand are part Chinese, that sort of contradicts everything else. Really confusing. Thanks.

I will attempt to share what I know of the situation in Thailand, which is primarily based on the news carried in my local (Singapore) news channels.

And no, China has got nothing to do with it. It is all politics internal to Thailand.

A broad time-line of event leading up to the current situation:

19/20 Sep 2006 : Thai Coup
Link to the time-line of the coup as reported by "The Nation", an english language daily published in Thailand: Coup as it unfolds

Essentially, the military mounted a coup while the Prime Minister at that time, Thaksin, was attending an official conference in US.

Earlier in 2006, Thaksin's opponents, including the influential media tycoon Sondhi formed the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). PAD is also known as the "yellow shirts", and was formed in response to Thaksin's family's sale of Shin Corp to Singapore Temasek Holdings. The 73 billion baht transaction was controversial as it did not attract any government taxation at all. Hence, Sondhi formed PAD to call for Thaksin's resignation on the grounds of corruption, nepotism and eventually, undermining the Thai monarchy.

Link for the Shin corp sale: Thai Prime Minister Thaksin's Family Sells Shin Corp. (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

Note: Sondhi was originally a Thaksin supporter. But they apparently fell out as Sondhi felt that Thaksin was no longer looking after his interests. The Thaksin family was also a competitor for Sondhi in Thailand's media industry.

Other factors cited for the coup include the need for the military to defend the monarchy from Thaksin. Thus, the military were wearing yellow armbands when they conducted the coup. The yellow armbands signify the royalty in Thailand (thus, the military was seen to be acting in the interests of the monarchy).

The PAD protests culminated in the coup in Sep 2006. Thereafter, Sondhi announced the dissolution of the PAD.

As Thaksin was in US when the coup happened, he has been in self-imposed exile ever since. He fears being arrested on arrival back in Thailand.

Sep 2006 to Dec 2007: Military Government in Thailand

Following the coup, the military became the caretaker government in Thailand led by retired General Surayud. During that time, they re-wrote the Thai constitution, which was put to a public referendum.

Bangkok's Independent Newspaper

Despite criticisms that the new constitution was less democractic than the one it replaces, the new constitution was approved by the public referendum.

30 May 2007, the Constitutional Court of Thailand banned Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai political party (Thai Rak Thai means "Thai love Thai") on grounds of electoral fraud:
The Constitutional Tribunal disbands Thai Rak Thai

The members of Thai Rak Thai promptly formed the People's Power Party to contest the next election:
Bangkok's Independent Newspaper

Dec 2007: General Election in Thailand
In this election, the PPP was the biggest winner, but it did not have the numbers to form the administration on its own. Thus a coalition government was formed:

Channel NewsAsia - Political instability in Thailand looks likely to continue - channelnewsasia.com

This led to Samak (a Thaksin ally from PPP) being sworn in as PM.

29 Jan 2008 9 Sep 2008 : The Samak Administration in Thailand

With Samak (a Thaksin ally) in power as PM, the administration went about amending the military drafted constitution. This became a tricky issue as the PAD alleges that the amendments are meant to allow Thaksin to come back into Thai politics. as a result, the PAD started mobilising again in Mar 2008.

The initial PAD allegations didn't make much impact, until the Preah Vihear incident. Preah Vihear is an ancient temple on the Thai-Cambodia border that is disputed between the 2 countries. This is a convoluted issue, but the PAD alleges that Samak had compromised Thai sovereignty (sovereignty is a highly sensitive issue in Southeast Asia). As a result, the PAD movement gained strength, and their actions escalated.

Some notable incidents include the PAD siege of the Thai Government House. During this period of time, there were some small clashes between the PAD and Thaksin's supporters.

9 Sep 2008: Constitutional Court Ordered PM to Resign
PM Samak was ordered by the Thai Constitutional Court to resign onthe grounds that he violated the constitution by appearing in a cooking show on TV.
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Court says Thai PM 'must resign'

18 Sep to 2 Dec 2008 : The Somchai Administration
Following Samak's resignation, Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law) was nominated and sworn in as PM. This was clearly not acceptable to the PAD leaders.

Thus, the PAD escalated their actions, the most notable incident being the PAD occupation of the International Airport in Bangkok, effectively shutting down air travel in and out of Bangkok for about a week.
Suvarnabhumi Airport closed for security reasons | Suvarnabhumi Airport | New Bangkok Airport Guide

The fact that the military did not stop the protestors from occupying the airport, and their refusal to act against the PAD in the airport even when ordered by the PM made it quite clear that the PAD had the support of the military.

During this time (as well as during Samak's administration), the PAD leaders started calling for "New Politics", where a portion of the Parliament were to be appointed rather than elected. Their justification was that the rural poor were easily deceived by politicians. This was seen as a veiled attempt for the Bangkok elite to control the reins of power.

Meanwhile, the Thai Constitutional Court ruled that Somchai (the PM at that time) and his political party (PPP) be banned from politics on the grounds of electoral fraud: AFP: Thai premier banned from politics, ruling party dissolved: court

With this ruling on 2 Dec 2008, the PAD felt that they had won. And they promptly left the airport that they were occupying.

With the PPP banned, some of the politicians joined its successor party, the Puea Thai Party (meaning for Thai), whilst others defected to the Democrat Party.
Puea Thai Party to elect leader on Sunday - Nationmultimedia.com

17 Dec 2008 onwards : Abhisit Administration
With PPP banned from politics, and the defection of some Members of Parliament to the Democrat Party, the stage was set for the Democrat Party to form the next government. Thus, Abhisit was sworn in as the PM on 17 Dec 2008.

However, the Thaksin supporters felt that Abhisit has no mandate to rule as his party was not elected to power (the Democrat Party came in 2nd in the 2007 elections). Thus, they pressed for a new general election. This group of people formed the United Front of Democracy Against Dictotarship (UDD), and as they wear red, they are also known as the "red shirts".

The UDD protests started peacefully enough, but were largely ignored by the administration. Thus, the UDD had to escalate their actions in order to press their demands. 1 notable incident from the escalation was the UDD storming the 4th East Asia Summit, resulting in its cancellation. (Footages of politicians being airlifted to safety by helicopters was all over the local news).

The administration's continued refusal to give in to UDD demands resulted in continued escalation until the present state of affairs.
Channel NewsAsia - Thai protesters, army locked in tense standoff - channelnewsasia.com

Quote from the link above: "Thai society is deeply divided between the urban elite and rural poor, with most of the Red Shirts from the north and impoverished northeast."

My Own View
Esssentially, the UDD felt that their rights were looked after during the Thaksin Administration (and his allies). This was a novel thing for them, as previously, all power was centred in Bangkok and controlled by the elites there. When the Bangkok elites went about systemically dismantling Thaksin and his allies adminstration, and their refusal to hold new elections, fuelled the UDD's discontent. They felt that their rights have been trampled on and they also point out that the military did not crack down on the PAD in the past, but is now cracking down on the UDD as further proof of the elites suppressing the poor.

What I find wrong with the media is they generally leave out historical information. Yeah I know, they can't put everything down. But what I read from them is so only the surface. You have to read books focused on exact subjects in order to get an idea. When I first heard and read about this story... normally you'd figure sympathy was with the protestors. Even the media seems to show a lack of interest except for the violence aspect. You'd figure human rights organizations would be more vocal yet I've heard hardly any at least in front of the media. There's always a political angle when the general media gets interested. There's also a political angle when they're not reporting it as they usually do. That's what interesting to me. Reading some comments from posters that seem to know something at least surprised me on the way the protestors were negatively portrayed.

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

This really doesn't have anything to do with China. Also, don't use Yahoo comments to form opinions. I have never seen anything stupider than Yahoo comments. If you read them long enough you'd think the Thailand riots were Obama's fault.

Anyway, as I understand it, it all goes back to the fact that Thaksin Shinawatra, when he was prime minister, had very populist economic policies. He also used his large telecommunications and media companies to help win elections. Shinawatra was removed form power in 2006 by the Army after he was charged with corruption and "manipulating the electorate" or something. He probably was corrupt, but what politician in a country like Thailand isn't? Thanksin fled and I think he's in Dubai now. His real crime was that he wasn't playing by the rules of the elite in Thailand. Because in Thailand, the King and the Army hold a huge amount of power behind the scenes.

So after the coup elections were held and the Thaksin-supporting party won again but after a bunch of protests by the PAD aka "Yellow Shirts" (upper/upper middle class pro-king anti-Thaksin political group) the Constitutional Court overturned the results of the election, another election was held, and this time the candidate of the PAD won, the current PM, Abhisit Vejajivya. He is strongly backed by the Army, the King and the elite in general. The "Red Shirts" (lower class Thaksin supporters, mainly from the countryside) have also taken to the streets, because understandly they're pissed at losing what I think is more or less fairly earned power.

Basically its the lower classes and countryside provinces against the upper class Bangkok elite, which is mainly supported by the King and the Army. Thaksin Shinawatra is a corrupt son of a bitch most likely but its not about him anymore. It's about the divisions in Thai society, which makes it very dangerous.

However I don't think civil war will result. I hope that cleared things up.

Also, I got to say considering the circumstances the Thai Army has done a fairly good job of avoiding civilian casualties.

Thanks
That also explained to me why it happened.
I just think that for those people to start throwing around blood, which contained AIDS, is way beyond the line.

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

So after the coup elections were held and the Thaksin-supporting party won again but after a bunch of protests by the PAD aka "Yellow Shirts" (upper/upper middle class pro-king anti-Thaksin political group) the Constitutional Court overturned the results of the election, another election was held, and this time the candidate of the PAD won, the current PM, Abhisit Vejajivya. He is strongly backed by the Army, the King and the elite in general. The "Red Shirts" (lower class Thaksin supporters, mainly from the countryside) have also taken to the streets, because understandly they're pissed at losing what I think is more or less fairly earned power.

Just wanted to point out that there wasn't another election which was held to put Abhisit in power. He was nominated as PM after the Thaksin friendly party (PPP) was ordered to be disbanded by the Thai Constitutional Court. The establishment (i.e., the Bangkok elites) know that if they hold another election, another Thaksin friendly party will win.

This is also the reason for the UDD's (aka red shirts) demands for fresh elections. They feel that Abhisit does not have the mandate to rule since he is not elected. Thus, they want fresh elections to elect a new government, especially after the establishment disband the party they voted for.

I'll supply some more of the hundreds of photos from Bangkok..

Anti-government "red shirt" protesters continue clashes with soldiers in Bangkok May 16, 2010. Thai protesters said on Sunday they were ready for U.N.-supervised talks with the government if the army stops shooting after three days of clashes that have killed 25 people and turned Bangkok into a battleground.

May 17th..Protesters and military clashed in central Bangkok after the government launched an operation to disperse anti-government protesters who have closed parts of the city for two months. Over 30 people have died and more than 260 injured since military began its crackdown. Anti-government protesters in Bangkok have defied orders to leave their fortified camp in the Thai capital. There is a state of emergency in effect that spreads to 17 provinces in the country. The Thai army declared certain protest areas where clashes are taking place a 'Live Fire Zone.'