PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

antiterror13

Brigadier
These artificial islands being built by the Chinese!..........Do we know how many of them are being built at the present time?
Their speed of construction is amazing, and the amount of preparation work for this must of been started quite sometime ago, maybe the turn of this century. What a huge effort that has obviously been put into this.
The budget must be quite astronomical.............i presume these islands projects have a separate budget, and are not included in the main armed forces budget?

Definitely these projects are not part of Chinese defence budget.

I don't know whether the cost /budget is astronomical, it depends on what the definition of astronomical. I would say $4-$5B total. Remember Chinese could do a huge things with even $1B, and they are extremely efficient and fast doing infrastructure projects, they are really hard working people.

$5B is nothing for China at the moment.

For comparison, Gerald Ford AC would cost the US almost $13B
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Let's not forget that piracy is a major problem in the area and has been for along time. With the new bases China will be in an excellent position to suppress that to the advantage of all countries there, although perhaps not to the advantage of all local police and coast guard services.

Not to mention typhoon season is coming. Some commercial and fishing vessels will be needing a safe place to anchor.
 

JayBird

Junior Member
Let's not forget that piracy is a major problem in the area and has been for along time. With the new bases China will be in an excellent position to suppress that to the advantage of all countries there, although perhaps not to the advantage of all local police and coast guard services.

Most definitely not an advantage for the local police and coast guard "services" around South China sea. The piracy is a such problem in the area for so long because these local police and coast guards second job after they change their uniforms is piracy. They probably have friends and family as coast guards and pirates at the same time and all connected. :(
 

ahojunk

Senior Member
I stumbled on some pictures of Taiping Island. These were taken in August 2014. Enjoy!
Taiping used to be the largest island in the SCS but now it is not anymore.

Pic of harbor under construction.
Taiping.太平島.2014-08-06_ahojunk_Progress.a - Copy.jpg

Close up of the harbor construction.
Taiping.太平島.2014-08-06_ahojunk_Progress.b - Copy.jpg

Progress between 18 April and 6 August 2014.
Taiping.太平島.2014-08-06_forcesdz_(2015-05-30)_Progress.c - Copy.jpg
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
A relatively balanced article from Joseph Nye, mostly on the SCS, with a few short sentences on ECS/Daioyu islands. Unlike most Western pundits, Nye pointed out China had the right to alter its rocks in the SCS. The history of Sino-US dealings in ECS and SCS is also informative. Nye is always a good read, and there are lots of videos on Youtube to view. Most are relatively balanced, but some are negative of the CCP and its domestic and international actions.

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OXFORD, England -- When a
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in the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, it was warned
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by the Chinese Navy to leave the area. Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi
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, "China's determination to safeguard its sovereignty and territorial integrity is as firm as a rock." U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter
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, "There should be no mistake [about this]: the United States will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows us, as we do all around the world." So, is a U.S.-China conflict in the South China Sea imminent?

In 1995, when I was serving in the Pentagon,
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, which is claimed by the Philippines and lies much closer to its shores than to China's. The U.S. issued a statement that we
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on the competing claims by five states over the 750 or so rocks, atolls, islets, cays and reefs that comprise the Spratlys, which cover a vast area -- 425,000 square kilometers (164,000 square miles) -- of the South China Sea. We urged that the parties involved to settle the disputes peacefully.

But the U.S. took a strong stand that the South China Sea, which includes important sea lanes for oil shipments from the Middle East and container ships from Europe, and over which military and commercial aircraft routinely fly, was subject to the
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.

To back up its territorial claim, China relies on a map inherited from the Nationalist period -- the so-called "
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," which extends nearly a thousand miles south of mainland China and sometimes as close as 40 or 50 miles from the coastline of states like Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines. All of these states claim the
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granted under UNCLOS.

When the dispute over Mischief Reef erupted, Chinese officials failed to clarify the
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, but, when pressed, they agreed that the dashes demarcated areas where China had sovereign claims. At the same time, they agreed that the South China Sea was not a Chinese lake, and that it was governed by the UN treaty. On this basis, the U.S. and China avoided conflict over the issue for nearly two decades.

But China did not avoid conflicts with its maritime neighbors. Although it pledged to adhere to a
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, it used its superior military might in disputes with the Philippines and Vietnam.
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, Chinese patrol vessels chased Philippine fishing boats away from Scarborough Shoal off the Philippine coast, and the Philippine government has
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which China claims has no jurisdiction. In 2014, after China
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, ships from the two countries engaged in ramming and water-cannon battles at sea;
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followed.

The region's smaller states sought American support. But the U.S. remained careful not to be drawn into the competing claims over sovereignty, some of which are tenuous, while on others China sometimes has a stronger legal position. Moreover, the U.S. had to focus on larger issues in its relationship with China.

This began to change when China initiated an active policy of dredging sand to fill in reefs and
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. Earlier this year, analysts released images of what is expected to be a
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.

The U.S. argues that UNCLOS grants foreign ships and planes free access beyond a
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while China claims that military flights cannot cross its
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without its permission. If China claimed such a zone for each of the sites it occupies, it could close off most of the South China Sea. As one U.S. official put it, China seems to be trying to "
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" -- what Admiral Harry Harris, the U.S. commander in the Pacific,
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a new "great wall of sand."

China correctly declared that it was within its sovereign rights to dredge, and that it was merely following the lead of its neighbors, whose governments had also been creating structures to bolster their claims. But American suspicions were heightened by the fact that in 2013, in a separate dispute between China and Japan over the Senkaku/Daiyou Islands in the East China Sea, the Chinese government unilaterally
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without prior warning. The U.S. response was to
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through the unrecognized zone. This set a precedent for the
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(which had a team of CNN reporters on board).

The U.S. response was designed to prevent China from creating a fait accompli that could close off large parts of the South China Sea. Nevertheless, the original policy of not becoming embroiled in the sovereignty dispute continues to make sense. The irony is that the U.S.
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means that the U.S. cannot take China to ITLOS over its efforts to convert reefs into islands and claim exclusion zones that could interfere with the right of free passage -- a major U.S. interest.

But, because China has ratified UNCLOS and the U.S. respects it as customary international law, there is a basis for serious direct negotiation over clarification of the ambiguous nine-dashed line and the preservation of freedom of the seas. With properly managed diplomacy, a U.S.-China conflict in the South China Sea can and should be avoided.
 

confusion

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm not sure how reliable this is, but if it's true, there's a lot of information to digest.

It's hard to believe that Malaysia has kept silent for 2 years while a Chinese coast guard vessel has remained continuously anchored at Luconia Shoals. The Malaysia possessions in the Spratlys are the most southerly occupied features in the Spratlys, so a move to Luconia, which is even further south of the Malaysia possessions, by China would represent a huge stretch for China in many ways.
B15060312.jpg


If I'm reading the numbers correctly on the vessel pictured (1123), a quick search shows that the vessel (
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) belongs to the North China Sea Fleet and was involved in operations around the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands, so that's also quite remarkable if true.

The formation of a new 'island' at Luconia would also be quite amazing if true. I think it's probably just a small sand spit though.

China Coast Guard vessel found at Luconia Shoals
MIRI: China has been detected encroaching on Malaysian waters at the Luconia Shoals, which are known as Gugusan Beting Patinggi Ali, located just 84 nautical miles from the coast here.

It is understood that a Chinese Coast Guard vessel has been anchored in the area for about two years.

“I had a meeting with the TLDM, MMEA, Wisma Putra and MKN (National Security Council) today (yesterday) with regards to the security of the South China Sea and the movement of illegal foreign fishermen there,” Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Seri Shahidan Kassim told a press conference at Miri Airport yesterday.

“With regards to the Gugusan Beting Patinggi Ali issue, we know that there is intrusion in the area, which is why we sent the TLDM (navy) and MMEA (Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency) to monitor the area 24/7 to ensure the sovereignty of the country.”

He pointed out that all foreign vessels would normally just pass through the area as they cannot anchor or stay in the area without permission.

He explained that one of the areas within Gugusan Beting Patinggi Ali had become a small island, which resulted in many parties being interested in it, possibly with the intention of encroachment.

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Blackstone

Brigadier
Sounds too provocative to be true, so I'd wait for independent confirmation from other sources, like AP or something, before taking the claim at face value. It's not impossible for CCG cutters to be in the area, but it may have nothing to do with sovereignty claims. Need more facts.
 
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