Cars! Cars! Cars!

The Maserati GranTurismo S arrives in New York after its worldwide debut at the Geneva Autoshow earlier this month. The glamorous setting for the New York debut is the Maserati Showroom on Park Avenue in Manhattan, where the GranTurismo S will premiere before US clients and collectors. In 2007, Maserati delivered more than 2600 units in the United States, marking a 20% growth in relation to the previous year. United States and Canada represent an increase of 40% of global sales volume for the Maserati brand.

model poses on a motorcycle at an exhibition stall on the opening day of the Autocar Performance Show in Mumbai November 13, 2008. Leading international automakers will showcase their products in the three-day auto show.

A model poses on a motorcycle at an exhibition stall on the opening day of the Autocar Performance Show in Mumbai November 13, 2008.

A man stands next to a Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 on the opening day of the Autocar Performance Show in Mumbai November 13, 2008.

Visitors are seen inspecting the new Citroen C3 presented at the Paris Auto Show, Wednesday, Oct. 15, 2008.

People are seen looking at the BMW Concept 7 Series active hybrid car at the Paris Auto Show, in Paris, Wednesday, Oct. 15, 2008.

The Citroen G Toy concept car created for a virtual Polyphony video game is displayed during the second press day of the Paris Auto Show, Friday, Oct. 3, 2008. The show runs for the public through Oct. 4 - 19.

The Mercedes Fascination concept car is displayed during the second press day of the Paris Auto Show, Friday, Oct. 3, 2008. The show runs for the public through Oct. 4 - 19.

So what do SDF members and mods drive on, live as daily transportation, or dream as their wheels? Anyone planning to buy a car? What do SDF members feel about the cars today, whats better or worst?

For me, I have formally joined the ranks of the green eco-socialists by purchasing a hybrid.

Originally Posted by crobato

So what do SDF members and mods drive on, live as daily transportation, or dream as their wheels? Anyone planning to buy a car? What do SDF members feel about the cars today, whats better or worst?

For me, I have formally joined the ranks of the green eco-socialists by purchasing a hybrid.

I drive a burgundy 2000 Chevy Metro. Runs great with great gas miliage and it better last about another 18 months. We're saving up to buy newer car.

Which hybrid did you buy crobato???

Originally I was looking at the Prius. I like the styling of it, for an economy car, and there is something robotically geeky about it that tickles in my mind. And its not like I was looking at all sorts of different cars to reduce my carbon and energy footprint. So I looked at a variety of cars starting with various economy cars starting from things like the Toyota Yaris, the Honda Fit, to the Civic, Matrix and various Scions. I can make this into a very long story talking about each and every car.

I decided to try heck, try something really different for a change. Try something you never ever tried in your life. If I was going for economy and helping to save Planet Earth, try going for the extreme to make it all the more worthwhile. So hybrid was worth investigating, and after test driving out one, I was hooked. It felt like you're really in the 21st Century. They drive seamlessly, and when they're on electric motors, they're quieter than anything on the road.

But the Prius was a bit overpriced in my dealer, which they have a few and holding high margins, while they got lots of Camrys, which they are pricing aggressively. So for a small jump in price, the Camry hybrid had more features, more power and felt more like a Lexus. True, the Prius had bit more personality, and there are a lot more Camrys in the road.

Another factor is that the Prius is due for a change after 2009. I didn't think that it would be a good feeling buying one now and see a replacing model in about a year.

So Camry Hybrid it is despite my daughter thinks that Camrys are cars driven by middle aged ladies and hockey moms to boot.

Having made my choice, I entered a new world with it, the world of Green Cars. It gives me a big smile to see how far the thing can run on a tank of gas. I discovered a lot of new things, eye opening things about the technology which is fabulous. Now I wonder about things like future hybrids having solar panels on the roof and the ability to charge from an electric outlet.

So what kind of car are you looking at 18 months down the road?

You know, talking about hybrid and green cars, I think infrastructure is still somewhat of a problem. Though the number of filling stations providing alternative fuel is sharply increasing lately.
Then there's the problem of wich concept finally makes it. There are several out there, and somehow I don't really think all will survive parallel. So there's a bit of uncertainty.
LNG or liquified gas? As mono- of bifuel engines? Hybrieds with conventional and electric motor? Or gas and electric? Or everything?
Basicly, having multiple systems would be a good thing for diversifying sources, having more possibilities. It reduces reliance on one source, and might therefore keep prices lower. But then again, you probably need a certain amount of cars using one and the same concept to make it economicly worthwhile.

With oil prices currently dropping, people might think there's still some time before action is needed. However, those with foresight will of course start now. I don't think there will be that much really new in 18 month. Solar penals are farther into the future I guess. And it probably depends on where you live if that investment is worthwhile or not.
Basicly I think more people having converted to LNG / LG bifuel cars.
Buses or so perhaps with additional ethanol fuel cells.

Personally, I currently really like the Audi A5, looks nice. R8 would also be great. But both are still some work and earning into the future. I probably couldn't go with a non german car anyway ...

As far as a hybrid is concerned I really like the Prius. The styling and the performance. When I lived in San Diego I worked for serveral years for a auto rental company. There I had the oppurtunity to drive the Pirus on several occasions. Very smooth with good performance. And of course all the customers raved about the gas miliage. The only thing I did not like about the car was the proceedure to start the darn thing...But once you got use to it it was easy to start.

A few concept Hy-bird and electric autos.

The Mercedes Blue hybrid S400 car is displayed during the second press day of the Paris Auto Show, Friday, Oct. 3, 2008. The show runs for the public through Oct. 4 - 19.

model sits in the Citroen C-Cactus Electric car during the second press day of the Paris Auto Show, Friday, Oct. 3, 2008.

The Daihatsu Mud Master C electric concept car is displayed on media day at the Paris Mondial de l'Automobile October 3, 2008.

Models pose inside a Matra GEM electric car displayed on media day at the Paris Mondial de l'Automobile October 3, 2008.

The Toyota Avensis car is displayed on media day at the Paris Mondial de l'Automobile October 3, 2008.

Models pose near the Chevrolet Volt electric car displayed on media day at the Paris Mondial de l'Automobile October 3, 2008. The Paris Auto show opens its doors to the public from October 4 to October 19.

Renault's new Megane is displayed during the second press day of the Paris Auto Show, Friday, Oct. 3, 2008.

Renault's ZE Concept electric car is displayed during the second press day of the Paris Auto Show, Friday, Oct. 3, 2008.

Visitors inspect the Tesla Roadster electric from Tesla Motors during the second press day of the Paris Auto Show, Friday, Oct. 3, 2008.

Originally Posted by bd popeye

As far as a hybrid is concerned I really like the Prius. The styling and the performance. When I lived in San Diego I worked for serveral years for a auto rental company. There I had the oppurtunity to drive the Pirus on several occasions. Very smooth with good performance. And of course all the customers raved about the gas miliage. The only thing I did not like about the car was the proceedure to start the darn thing...But once you got use to it it was easy to start.

The one I test drove had the Smartkey system. You don't even have to take out the keys from your pocket. The car already senses its presence. The only thing you do is press the Start button on the car, just remember the press the brakes at the same time. Toyota and Lexus cars that have the Smartkey system all work that way, plus many other cars of all brands.

The funny thing about the Prius is the shifter control. With about every other car, you got the shift lever in the middle of the car. They all look what you expect them to be.

The shift lever on the Prius is like a tiny, toy like lever near the start button. It feels more like you're turning on a light than shift a car. However, sneak photos of the next Prius model shows them returning to the conventional layout.

If its about sheer economy, the Prius still wins. I've made some research on my own about hybrids, and hybrids are not built equally even if they say "Hybrid".

For one thing, the Prius has a 67 hp electric motor. That's huge compared to other cars. The Camry Hybrid has a 40hp motor; the Honda Civic Hybrid has 20hp.

The more powerful the electric motor, the more often the car will use the electric motor to accelerate. Given the Prius weight compared to the other two cars, from the traffic light, the Prius is more likely (using computer determination) to use its electric motor to move forward than the other two examples. This saves on gas. The effective hybrid strategy is to rely more on the electric motor as much as possible.

Among the pictures there, the car called the Toyota Avensis, only sold in Europe, shares the same chassis and power train to another vehicle, the Scion Tc.

The Prisus we had at the rental agency about 5 years ago did not have Smartkey. I just rmember there were three diffrent things you had to do to start the car. many customers complained about this proceedure.

The shifter does indeed looks like a toy. But it is functional never the less. You just have to get use to it. All in all I really like the car.

CHINESE COMPANS MIGHT ACQUIRE PARTS OF GM AND CHRYSLER : what do you guys think
By Bertel Schmitt
November 18, 2008 -

Chinese carmakers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire GM and Chrysler, China’s 21st Century Business Herald reports today. [A National Enquirer the paper is not. It is one of China's leading business newspapers, with a daily readership over three million.] The paper cites a senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.” These hints are very often followed with quick action in the Middle Kingdom. The hints were dropped just a few days after the same Chinese government gave its auto makers the go-ahead to invest abroad. And why would they do that?

A take-over of a large overseas auto maker would fit perfectly into China’s plans. As reported before, China has realized that its export chances are slim without unfettered access to foreign technology. The brand cachet of Chinese cars abroad is, shall we say, challenged. The Chinese could easily export Made-in-China VWs, Toyotas, Buicks. If their joint venture partner would let them. The solution: Buy the joint venture partner. Especially, when he’s in deep trouble.

At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel) the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash. Even a hundred billion $ would barely dent China’s more than $2t in currency reserves. For nobody in the world would buying GM and (while they are at it) Chrysler make more sense than for the Chinese. Overlap? What overlap? They would gain instant access to the world’s markets with accepted brands, and proven technology.

21st Century Business Herald, obviously with input from higher-up, writes that Chinese industry must change and upgrade. China wants their factories to change from low-value-added manufacturing to technically innovative and financially-sound high-value-add industries. Says the paper: “It would be much easier now for strong Chinese automakers to go global by acquiring some assets of their U.S. counterparts in times of crisis.”

Deloitte & Touche sees a trend: “Chinese automakers can start with buying out the OEM projects and Chinese ventures of some global carmakers such as GM and Chrysler.”

The Chinese appear to have bigger plans than an accounting firm can imagine. 21st Century Business Herald acts and writes as if its already a done deal, and the beginning of more to come. “In the coming two years China is likely to see a few of its large Chinese automakers and other manufacturing enterprises set a precedent for achieving globalization by acquiring global companies, just like SAIC or Dongfeng’s possible acquisition of troubled GM or Chrysler.”

Just in case you missed it, the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) is China’s largest auto manufacturer. In 1984, the company entered a joint venture with Volkswagen. A decade later, SAIC entered a joint venture with General Motors. In 2007, SAIC bought the Nanjing Automobile Corporation, which had acquired British MG Rover in 2005.

Dongfeng Motor Corporation is a public company, although 70 percent of their shares are reported to be in government hands. They also are one of China’s Big Three. The company has numerous joint venture partners, such as Nissan, Peugeot-Citroen, Honda, and Kia. Dongfeng (which means “East Wind”) was founded at the behest of Mao Zedong himself in 1968.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bre...-and-chrysler/

I realise the above article is probably unsubstantiated speculation, but was wondering if the poers that be were thinking along those lines, what sort of reaction would they get from Congress, given the past troubles they have had, when trying to acquire US Companies?

Originally Posted by bladerunner

I realise the above article is probably unsubstantiated speculation, but was wondering if the poers that be were thinking along those lines, what sort of reaction would they get from Congress, given the past troubles they have had, when trying to acquire US Companies?

I'm not sure but I think that if these Chinese automakers wanted to purchase these companies they'ed have to get the deal past the US government. GM, Chrysler & Ford have huge contracts with the US DoD on various programs.

Personally I don't think it would happen.

I understand that the Chinese hydrogen powered VW and the Chevy Equinox are going to debut at the LA Auto show tomorrow.Hope someone can post some pics of the cars, and comments on how the respective cars were received.

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The Prisus we had at the rental agency about 5 years ago did not have Smartkey. I just rmember there were three diffrent things you had to do to start the car. many customers complained about this proceedure.

The shifter does indeed looks like a toy. But it is functional never the less. You just have to get use to it. All in all I really like the car.

There is a new Prius that is expected to come out in 2010. New styling, new interior, sportier and no longer like the Starship Enterprise. Leaked pictures.

Now if it only has solar panels on the top, that would be my perfect green car.