The life and death of a forum

[chinawhite]

The life and death of a forum

Forums live and forums dies

but what makes a fourm great?. Is it its amount of post or the quaility of post. Is it the way the forum is run or the forum is mis-run. Is it the topic its ranging from. I bet in the former CD they had lots of crazy posters but eventually killed them off and now left with the most respected chinese forum on the net.

I dont know what you are planning on doing with this forum DongFeng but it doesn't seem to work. If you are planning on rivialing China-defense or even supassing it. That will not happen because of the simple fact that it has all the most educated people all in a group. This forum is not that appealing to many people because most people on the internet want a flame war and want to bad mouth every country which they dont come from. Our experience base is small consisting of a few people which served as small time grunts in the armed forces. and many Air chair generals. The more people you get into this forum the bigger the chance to have experienced people drop in.

But the most important thing lacking in this forum is chinese. This surprised me to but if you think about it there is practically no chiense material here compared to chian defense. If anyone actually reads the chinese post they have more information than any of the other english post other people have. There is only one person that actually provides this and its Tphuang.

If this forum can make the first find or is the first to get source of information on english speaking forums more people will be attracted to this forum. If we had better places for these people to post information than maybe we will rivial to china-defense. And the people that can't read chinese can use this Babel Fish.

A piture section will also be needed. spilt into different sections and given a name or small describtion. This will attrach the lazy people looking for pictures. Anyway back to the main topic


This is my account of forum life on this particluar forum.

This forum has the highest amount of moderating ever in the history of forums i have been on. Every serval post their will be a comment from a moderator to calm down or stop the personal attacks. If there are no personal attacks being said dont moderate. People hate this when it happens. Well i can name serval people that hate it. Its annoying.

If a member makes a personal attack or breaks the rules, give them a offical warning and they will pretty much stop it for the rest of the posting from then on. But if you keep on warning them here warning them there its going to cause big problems.

Moderators
How is the moderating choosing process done? Do you pic the most quite people which add the least information to be a moderator or is it how much full screen images they post.

Moderators here should be the most knowledgble peopel on the thread which can actually see BS facts when they are presented. Moderators should have the most knowledge out of any member of the whole forum. The moderator should warm the member and back it up with proof or links to some proof(for the lazier ones)

They dont really moderate but are the choosen ones. It divided in the have's and have not's. You cannot debate a moderator in this forum becauses the simple reason they will warm you every time they are on the losing end of the stick.

Not talking about these moderators
crazyinsane105, sumdud, swimmerXC, T-U-P and tphuang.

No offense other moderators you complain to much

Peer Pressure

Every forum has a certain level of peer pressure. Some of the better forums like CD has a lot of peer pressure. No one says something stupid or childish there becuase they dont want to be looked down as the stupid ones. In ATS(Link) they give out awards to show which people have contributed to the forum the most. Your votered in by the people instead of moderators, so its a fair competetion

If your wrong admit it. Thats a part of life. Everyone thinks they are better than everyone else in the forum. When Popeye gave some first hand experience about a certain topic a member which not be named responded with a psot that went something like this "no way i wont belive that so i'll flood you for 5 pages". I cant remember if this actually happened but i can picture it happening.

Repuation

I asked around forums and no one knows about this forum and some people dont even know about sinodefence.com. Do some advertising. Show the people you have a forum. Make accounts at other forums and spread the news. Its been one year? and you only have about 30active members out of the 500 members which have registered. This forum is not getting enough attention

Still problems

There are still problems here i have addressed on these threads

Posting Rallies

Police state?

Point system.(this one has been resloved with the reputation one but is not widespread usage).

Many of the existing problems like this have been resolved already but we need to get more people coming. The more people that come into this forum the more experienced people that would like to join

End Note

First off i would like to end this saying i have had a good experience i met many nice people on this thread.

This is probaly my last post in this forum because i expect i will be banned soon. Anyway i want to leave this forum feeling like i contributed to its development. If you want (i recommend that people start going to Avation forum not just about planes but everything...

The problems you are having with flame wars and who has the biggest ego and such events is becauses its a small forum. If you want to extend your reputation first make it as big as possible and do a clean up work later. You let many people in look at their character and ban peopel after you decide its ready to clean up after yo get what you want.

Sinodefence is a great chinese military site and lots of people link their information to this site. If only you could show them that you have a great forum.

And Gollevainen good luck handling the forum

Dont forget the key to a well known forum is a good member base(try build up to 1000 members),. Be the first. Good leaders.

heres a quote from the moderator aka SOC

Chinawhite:

You can debate with Flogger all you want, try and beat him with a logic stick for days, but please refrain from calling him a moron. Personal insults are not appreciated here and are in violation of our forum Code Of Conduct. Beyond that, I do enjoy debating with you. I hope you stick around!

lol

I'll leave this with a quote

"Life after Death" ---2Pac


Final Regards,

chinawhite

[WebMaster]

Chinawhite, thanks for the input!

If you want flame wars, I suggest you try some chat room. No body keeps a record of it as forums do in form of threads. Flame wars, after a while get very boring and is not something one should be proud of. You insult others, get your self insulted - how good is that? Instead of exchanging information and ideas, exchanging curse words is fun to some people and believe that such behaviour from members forum a great forum.

Flame wars, insults right and left, country bashing is unprofessional, immature and out right absurd reason to join a forum. Ever read rules? Every site has rules and only very very very few implement it fully.

Too much intervention from moderators may not be good but in certain cases it is needed because we want people to discuss rather than dig up dirt on each other and turn a forum into a circus ground.

As far as promotion of the site, well it is linked on the site and I think since the forum is fairly new (started in late august 2005) it will take time for it to be known out there like many other forums. I think, the forum link and latest threads from the forum can be placed on the main page/site (like on main page of defencetalk.com see defence community area) on sinodefence.com so people see the links and click... but that is something only dongfeng can do.

I am doing what I can as far as backend and Search Engine Optimization so search engines can find all of our posts and it shows up on the radar. No different than what was and is being done with DefenceTalk and results (last month the results were 6000 or so, now went up to 10,000 ) are starting to show already. It will certainly take time to get out there and for forums it takes longer and when you set a high standard for a forum, in the long run you end up with a quality forum with quality posters and everyone wants to come and read your stuff and be a member of the site... strict forums take time to fly and this forum is not as strict, and many times it gets too strict in a wrong way. Which needs to be worked on. :-\

If you want to help this site and forum, then help us get out there rather than leaving.

[chinawhite]

If you want flame wars,

I am againest flame wars. simply because no real disscusiion gets accomplished and normally ends up with people hating each other and giving bad impressions of each others countries. I must admit i had my fair share of flames wars and such(i started fourming to have a war with some indian guy). But i realized that i didn't hate indians i hated him.

by the letting them have flame wars I meant having those people come out of their shells so we can ban them straight away instead of waiting for them to muck up.

Letting the forum grow is better than just having the same regular people on every day repeating the same arguments. Maybe the forum could have a scation which all the breaking news is posted.

If you want to help this site and forum, then help us get out there rather than leaving.

Im not saying im leaving im saying if i get banned. I though i was going to get banned anytime now.

I do tell people to visit the forum. Everyone should visit more forums so we can co-operate to bring me members in. The more active members we have the bigger the chance we have more experienced members.

I cant really attract people myself becauses i am more active with polictical forums. But i bet DongFeng can because he can say his th owner of Sinodefence. I learn't about DT when i got a e-mail and through forums. A big hit at one time. but now that advisitising how died down a bit

[Gollevainen]

Here we go again...

Now i wont hide behind complements and UN-nessererical circling so I'm saying this right to your face chinawhite.

Why is it that every time you are being moderated a total circus is raised? I seem to believe that every time we moderate you, you end up taking it personally. Then you start up these kind of circuses of complaining and dramatic posturing of how the forum is in its deaht roll...It's sad.

What makes it even more sadder is that in the end you seem to be very knowledge guy and could be in theory a valuable member to our forum. But as I've said many times, knowledge isn't the worth of nothing when it comes down to basic understatement and acceptation of rules and manners. As knowledgeable you may be, you lack total respect of any sort of authority and that's the main reason why you get constantly moderated. You seem to think that the rules don't applies to you and if you are being moderated, then the moderators must be incapaple and on a personal vendetta against you. I say this once again this isn't the case. You are as mortal as rest of us and therefore pinned to the same rules and regulations as the rest of us.

You talked something about being banned. Thats unfortunate result of getting too many warnings. Only our dear friend Vincelee will get banned right away, without any explanation. Rest of you will have to earn it. To little reminder, here's your history:

First warning:

FUk you mother fuker.

the problem in Australia is not Asians but fuks like you

caucasian fuks that think there fukin black or fukin asia

this is quote from you. You didn't start that one of the most lowest dirt throwing contest of us, but you continued it in manners like that and therefore you were issued your first warning. (To make things simpler we probably should have issued you a double warning as to Ger_mark and FriedRice...)

Second warning:

Laugh.

Red not Dead cant even speak English.

Red not Dead doesn't even know proper military meanings and trying to debate me with his dictionary meanings

You know nothing about the Chinese military but somehow become a moderator.?

Calling me a kid makes you feel like a man does it Gollevainen?

Now this was the most troubled thing that you did, as it earned your second warning but also started up this whole circus. Why i gave you a warning there? Because you made personal attacks against red not dead. You also showed total disrespect towards me when i moderated you.

Now this was your last deed:

PiSigma????

Are you trying to rack up post points or something.? I have seen you enter heaps of discussion when no personal attacks were said or even were hinting of a personal attack.

If you want to get points post some facts

Regards,

chinawhite

In here, Pisigma made normal moderator's warning to thread which were about to flame up. It was nothing personal towards you, nor even directed against you, but still you once again made a fool of yourself by disrespecting moderators work. This, and all the above comments of you reflects a arrogance manners which are not allowed here cos arrogance is the biggest reason of flaming up. You may have been right (questioning that was never the case) in your debates against other members, but when moderators comes down and says, "Cool down" It means only that. All these above actions are enough to be issued a warning and you've done it three times. I haven't spend much time in military forums, mainly cos in very few there is change to discuss properly. The idea of moderation seems to lack from many of them, but I would call that to theirs loss, not ours. We all admin and mod have agreed that strong policy is needed in route of more professional forum. In ezboard that wasn't conducted, and the results were catastrophic. Moderation atmosphere doesn't make forum more professional or not, its the members that provides their information. I think its more of a luck or a change, which forum gets the best members to use that particular forum as their main arena. So far I haven't came up any superb formula to lure those kind of members here.

Now I've said this one millions of times, i won't issue your third warning, tough you hell sure have earned it. This is due to prevent these kind of circuses...apparently it had no affect. Still i leave this in the hands of Dongfeng and Webmaster, who I've had already consulted over this matter and asked this case to be executed right away.

I kindly ask that you stop all posting before this matter is solved by the administration.

[FreeAsia2000]

Hi

The moderators job is to keep forum on topic and preventing people from
turning it into a personal slanging match which ruins the atmosphere

some of the members here are rather young and do tend to use street language
hopefully this will be mellowed with age and experience because some of them
have some awesome knowledge. who knows they may be moderators in future

regarding getting a higher profile have we considered asking military/political
people to give us an interview ? maybe a Q & A session ? I'd really like to contribute that way in the future

Generally I like this forum because the members although they sometimes get a bit heated don't really have any extreme hatred to each other

[Gollevainen]

Make interwievs from military personel?? what do you mean by that, everyone should accomplish atleast pagelength interview of some military professional or get banned?? ....idea is good (the interwiev, not the banning part, it was a joke) thougth who knows them to make out proper interwievs? I mean, we do have few members that could be acounted as ones, but i thik they have been 'explored' to death...

But if you have changes to do so, please do

But to my wiev of improving the forum...its rather hars: stick whit those who has something to say and await that equally or even superior knowledgable members to join in. members that can not understand the basic rules of us, are the main reason why we moderators have to jump in (and as it seems, to start these hulabaloos as we do so by certain egotrippers). there is clear...'dream'...of what the forum should be, and sofar it seems that what ever step we take to accomplish that, we stick into same mud. Im not saying that 15-17 year old kids are that mud, but in worst moments it seems like that. (thougth there are exeptions too, like Sumdud and T-U-P who have been mods whit me since the ezboard...T-U-P even longer)
I havent totally recovered my army days, so maybe i cannot be objective but is it so hard to follow rules? be humble front of authority and respect their guidance? should we issue an agelimit and some sort of accompaning newbie period when you have to prove us of your maturity to prevent banning?

or do we have to just get rid of few solitare individuals who makes their own proplems becoming this forum's proplems ?

[chinawhite]

I'm leaving this forum for sure now. It was my own choice.

I tried to help this forum get some professional members giving adivce on the poor level of moderating and have done advertising in other forums.

so hard to follow rules?

When people dont respect you they dont listen to you. get the hint

Any way, Gollevainen why dont you challenge me in a real debate?

Like this one

Me
"If you want to debate soviet nato strategy im will be more than happy to.You game?"

You accepted
"when you come back, we can discuss about Nato's strategy"

I made a thread
NATO Strategy Vs Soviet Strategy

Where were you in the debate...oh thats right some background nosie

You also showed total disrespect towards me when i moderated you.

Respect is earned. Dont expect my respect

You want respect from me debate the issue. Moderating doesn't invole. "oh my i hate that guy lets add something stupid to get him and not contribute to the disscusion when there is no flame war. Do not enter a disscusiion until a personal attack is said. If a disscussion is taking place let it run its course and if theres no personal attack dont add to it.

What is wrong with my post in this thread?
Whats wrong Gollevainen?
And this one?

Now tell me why moderating was need in these threads?.

Why did rommel make a comment in this thread
Why would you need to moderate this?


Or why is this off-topic?
Some actual disscusion was going on


-------

My thread is toally ruined thanks Gollevainen for taking a cheap shot

Now when i leave i hope you dont take cheap shots on me. be the man you claim you are

I could answer all the whinning you made but i choose not to. simily because i will be the bigger person among us two

and dont take me out of context.

FUk you mother fuker. the problem in australia is not asians but fuks like you ,caucasian fuks that think there fukin black or fukin asia

He made a racist comment about asians in australia and blamed asian people for the drug problem in australia. I dont take rascism well


Anyway with that past me. i hope this forum does well

Regards,

chinawhite

[chinawhite]

hi,

FreeAsia2000. You mean street language by the F word?. Because i can tell you one certain mature moderator has used that a lot of times. starting with a G

Do you want to have polictical disscussions?. if you do go to abovetopsecret.com and make your way to the polictical section

Regards,

chinawhite

[Gollevainen]

Well your last post clearly showed the thing that has been the proplem from the begining. You lacking respect towards me and other mods. This cannot be the case as we mods are the ones keeping the displine and following that conversation is made in certain line. This is clearly statet in the forum rules (which i belive you never even read) If you break the rules, or even worst, state that you are not going to obey those rules then you have no buiness in here.
And also as for your respect for me, well if I were a newbie in any forum, I would show some natural respect every older moderator/administrator as well as to oldermembers. We mods arent ment to earn your respect and work only after that, thats silly and stubourn way to think. You dont say to a police man that "you cannot arrest me as you havent earn my respect" Its more like otherway around You are to earn our aproval and there by advance in our chain of command. Anyone contributal ennough one has the theoretical change to rise at moderators/super moderators rank

Someone accused this forum being a police state...well perhaps not a policestate but think of us mods as police. In real life, there are rules (laws) which must be respected in order to have the community working as it should. Same aplyes in here. There are rules which all members must follow. In real life there are police monitoring that the laws and rules are followed, in here it's the moderators. In real life no one isen't above the law, the same thing aplyes in here; No one isenät above the forum rules. Ofcourse police make mistakes, so does moderators, but when police arrest a person who had made a crime, that isen't police misbehaiving. Also if moderator moderates a member who is breaking forum rules, then it certainly isen't bad moderator work....so what can i say? You fought the law, law won....

If we let chinawhite set up the rules (or expect that the rules don't mean him), then perhaps we should call this forum a sinowhitedefenceforum....

As much as chinawhite want's to make himself a martyr, an opressed member forced to leave, I hope that no one else wont get fooled by him. War doesen't need one soldier...
He decided to leave, and i will issue him a third warning and a permanent ban, in case the paradise starts to boring him...

Thread closed.

[WebMaster]

Obviously, it is apparent that this whole circus is result personal feelings among certain members against each other. There is nothing wrong with the forum and since it is new, it will take time for it to be a "GREAT" forum.

Whenever there is difference of opinion and one side is the "underdog" it blames the forum administration for not running the forum effectively, yet that is not the case. No body on the net runs the forum like we do (here and on DT) which is be strict, fully apply the rules and make sure the main topic and theme of the forum is preserved through good moderation and sometimes too much in this case.

As far as DT is concerned, advertisement was done in the begining, but as of now it doesn't need any because people find it on the net and many times it is in the top 20 results if not top 10 for most military/defence related searches. Just last month, we've had over 900+ new registers with some 2 mil + pageviews.

A forum can be great, but not at the expense of somebody's respect. Rules should apply to everyone equally and they do and there should not be any moderator favortism towards one group of people while the other group feels it is being neglected which is always wrong and not fair.

If you can't discuss topics with respect and MUTUAL respect in regards to others, you probably don't belong on any forum let alone this one. You respect others and they will respect you, disagreements are normal occurance in human life and not something you should use to justify disrespecting others, flame wars or what not. I personally, don't believe in that crap and will not run the forum like members who are used to flame wars and open insults/disrespects on OTHER forums. No, you won't get that type of nonsense here and it just does not look good on top of that people who KNOW their stuff do not like chickens with their heads cut off running around the forum creating flame wars and there is no body to control them. It is a forum and not a circus ground - discussions have to go by our rules, not yours.