This is a discussion on training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force within the Army forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; The problem with patriotism education in China is that no one takes it seriously, not even the educators. They only ...
The problem with patriotism education in China is that no one takes it seriously, not even the educators. They only see it as easy political points. No one really cares about *educating* the students.
Hence why we see the endless variations on the same old themes. Hell, textbooks are *still* talking about Chairman Mao visiting the common people. I mean, seriously? And even when they try to "modernize" the content, they still make only the most minimal effort possible, such as replacing Mao with Deng or Hu, and having almost the exact same story.
Today when Hu Jintao speaks of the long term national aspiration, he did not say attainment of Communism, what he said is national rejuvenation. And these had been repeated over and over again year after year. Today what hold China together is not a common vision of a political ideology, it is a common vision of a people.
What HKer has to understand is no matter you like it or not, HK’s fate is tie with China. Nobody has a crystal ball that can tell the future, we all have to take it as it goes. Therefore it would be wise for HK to stay at the good side of the mainlander (I know that is very hard to stomach). From the mainlander point of view, what they ask is little. That Hk would take China interest at heart, not embarrassing China whenever an opportunity arises.
Both Article 23 and Nationalistic education are all meant for establishing a nationalistic patriotism. A common ground as you mentioned. In all political policy making or even a discussion or debate, there require a certain sincerity from the participant. Understanding that there is a consensus on what is reasonable and acceptable, of adherent to certain universal value/truth. In most country that consensus is the national interest or as you put it, patriotism should not be political. Unfortunately, we often have this impression of the lack thereof this basic integrity from some HK politician.
From Beijing point of view, HK is often unreasonable. Once the sensational demagogue hijacks the political agenda, Beijing is helpless against it. As you had mentioned, supporting or even speaking the Beijing point of view would be considered as treacherous, and that from Beijing point of view, is unreasonable. All the conjured up image of Beijing controlling HKer live are all imaginary, they have no basis in fact. Beijing has kept to her promise, and there is no reason not to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Beijing has so far always back down whenever HKer object, but one had to realize that this type of one way relationship is not healthy. While the intoxicating sense of power is great, HKer has to see that this is a dangerous game they are playing. I do not know how creditable it is, but recently there is mainland official that warn against a HK independent movement. It is an indication that Beijing is wary of development in HK. It is well known that Beijing has always been suspicious of foreign "subversive element" in HK. If HK lost it civil order, it would be a huge loss-loss situation for both sides. Therefore Beijing might consider it important to act to nip it in the bud.
Growing out of her frustration, Beijing would see introducing nationalistic education as exercising Beijing rights to put in her side of the story. It is an attempt to lessen the deep rooted prejudice that some HKer has. Only when Beijing is not viewed as the caricature bogeymen, when Beijing concern and view point are considered, then a meaningful and sustainable relationship could have existed. I think Beijing would have left HK alone as long as HK do not hurt the interest of China.
The protesters are not HK. The news media are not hk. When you say "....HK is often unreasonable". You mean the government of HK, representing HK, is unreasonable. Representing the government is our CE. Do you mean he is unreasonable? Not many HK people like him,I do accept, but he does represent HK. Unless of course you know every hker's views and you found all 7 million of them are unreasonable toward the central government. I guess when you say HK is often unreasonable you mean some of the HKers' are unreasonable .. Well, if you go to every place in CHina, you will find unreasonable people towards the government, China... But I dont think one would say Chinese are against China just because you happen to hear opinions, news of protesters. Although I respect their rights to protest and sometimes agree to some of the causes, I dont think they are enough to represent the view of whole population. Just as you are interested in our country, I will not even dare to speculate that you and your countrymen are of the same view towards my country.
I begin to get amused by members like you who take such interests of our country, even though misguided. Anyway, I dont think you will ever understand us Chinese nationals.
Last edited by aquauant; 11-25-2012 at 09:03 AM.
I see this as comparable to a marriage. You get a lot of perks when you marry: companionship with the one you love, help with house work, extra family income, support during troubled times, etc. There are also a lot of conflicts: arguments over how and where to spend money, arguments over housework, over in-laws, etc. etc.
Likewise, Hongkong gets a lot of advantages when it returned to China, mainland tourism dollars being not the least of those perks. There's a reason the biggest HK stars, like Andy Lau and Jackie Chan, are singing Mainland praises. However, like in all marriages, there will be disagreements.
Beijing doesn't really understand plural democracy. It's used to the government speaking for the people in one voice. It cannot understand a system like Hongkong where those who cry loudly do not necessarily represent a majority or even a mainstream view.
At the same time, Hongkong can't understand the way Beijing does things. It doesn't understand that Beijing needs to keep two facades, one to please the Old Guard in the CCP, and another to actually build progress. It doesn't understand that Beijing needs to walk a fine balance in order to keep the Chinese government working smoothly.
I expect to see the Old Guard mentality slowly fade out in the coming decades, if not years. I don't really care for these kinds of blunt propaganda either. I wasn't sad to see Bo Xilai go, for example, as he clearly represented the Old Guard in this respect, with his renewal of "red songs".
As someone who cares about the future of Hong Kong and China I just want to say that I am really glad that such an open, honest, passionate, and thoughtful discussion is taking place on these related topics in this forum.
you guys spelled the reason why this is my favorite discussion forum and why i'd keep following here.
I wrote to a HKer trying to make him/her understand a few points.
HK react vehemently when Beijing is view as interfering with HK politic and yet HK do interfere in China politic and not all mainlander like it you know.
Some HKer believe that only if China become democratic, then HK would be safe. That logic is too simplistic and is again cold war mentality.
Beijing has kept her promise and never overtly interferes. There is no reason to believe that policy would change unless Beijing views HK becoming a threat.
It is unfortunate for HK to still have this cold war image of Beijing, but she still should listen to reason, not automatically shut Beijing out.
I also explain that Beijing would see nationalistic education as a way of addressing that particular problem.
It is no secret that HK would prefer democracy as their form of government. But for democracy to work, there require a sensible political tradition as the common ground. Democracy has the tendency to intensify differences. It is important that HK should become mature enough to overcome their prejudice and establish a healthy political tradition.
Maybe I am too blunt in accusing HK for being unreasonable. Maybe I am making an unnecessary big thing out of all this. There is absolutely no reason that both sides would not get what they essentially wish for. The problem looks like a lack of trust. Beijing has done all that she could for the last 15 years in good faith and it is my personal opinion that HK should trust Beijing a bit more and give her the benefit of the doubt. That is the way how trust is built.
Find your average Japanese and I think it can still be achieved. I can often talk to my Japanese friends rationally about this issue and usually they are rather quite understanding. I haven't met anyone who display any radical attitudes so far
Last edited by airsuperiority; 11-27-2012 at 04:35 AM.
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