SinoDefence Forum

Autumn Child · 12-09-2009

Read the news today. What do the expert think? What kind of tanks? what is the specs?

Quote:

Peru to buy military hardware from China, Brazil
Wed Dec 9, 2009 7:20pm ESTRelated NewsChile: Any U.S. missile, radar deal under $665 million
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LIMA, Dec 9 (Reuters) - Peru is in talks to buy tanks from China and fighter planes from Brazil to replenish an "obsolete" military arsenal, officials said on Wednesday, just weeks after accusing Chile of starting an arms race.

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President Alan Garcia has criticized Chile, which defeated Peru in the 19th century War of the Pacific, for negotiating the purchase of U.S. missiles and radar equipment.

Garcia has also tried to spearhead an anti-arms initiative in Latin America, where countries like Venezuela, Brazil and Colombia have been beefing up their armed forces.

"The government is in talks to acquire a fleet of tanks made in China to replace some of the obsolete units of the armed forces," Defense Minister Rafael Rey told local radio.

"It's about equipment replacement -- not about entering an incessant arms race," Prime Minister Javier Velasquez said on RPP radio.

Peru said Super Tucano planes it buys from Brazil's Embraer (ERJ.N)(EMBR3.SA) would be used to combat cocaine trafficking in remote parts of the Andes and Amazon jungle.

Peru's government, which hopes to replace Soviet-era tanks acquired in the 1970s, did not say how much it would spend on the new equipment.

Chilean Defense Minister Francisco Vidal has said any U.S. equipment that Chile buys would cost much less than a recent $650 million estimate provided by the Pentagon.

Vidal said potential purchases of missiles and Sentinel radar systems would not upset the military balance in South America.

Chile's armed forces have benefited from years of windfall copper earnings due to a law that entitles them to 10 percent of state copper giant Codelco's sales. The government has sent a bill to Congress that aims to scrap the Codelco payment. (Reporting by Marco Aquino and Dana Ford; Editing by Terry Wade and Peter Cooney)

Semi-Lobster · 12-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn Child

Read the news today. What do the expert think? What kind of tanks? what is the specs?

You can basically say the MBT-2000 is a simplified export version of the Type 96 tank that can trace its lineage back to the Soviet T-54 with modular armour, and a modern fire-control, autoloader, engine, transmission etc. etc.

Lion · 12-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

You can basically say the MBT-2000 is a simplified export version of the Type 96 tank that can trace its lineage back to the Soviet T-54 with modular armour, and a modern fire-control, autoloader, engine, transmission etc. etc.

Are you joking? Might as well say T-34, isn't it better? And Peru government is idiot to spend money on junk.

Type-96 is already a simplify version of Type99 which is the elite of PLA.

Another simplify version of Type96 will immediately downgrade to Type79/80 which is obsolete.

MBT-2000 is much more modern compare to Type96 and is aim at attracting export order but it lacks some of the goodies of Type99 like lazer dazzle and maybe a different gun with shorter barrel, smaller engine pack.

jackbh · 12-09-2009

Quote:

You can basically say the MBT-2000 is a simplified export version of the Type 96 tank that can trace its lineage back to the Soviet T-54 with modular armour, and a modern fire-control, autoloader, engine, transmission etc. etc.

That's a joke right?

Semi-Lobster · 12-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackbh

That's a joke right?

Not really, I mean, practically all Soviet tanks are descendant from the T-54 at least partially and Chinese tanks up to the third generation Type 98/99 tanks were based on such lineage. They're still capable, modular tanks with modern features. The Pakistani Army seems quiet happy with them.

rhino123 · 12-09-2009

Actually what Semi Lobster holds some truth. Type 96 and MBT-2000 did share some lineage to old T-54 MBT. But MBT-2000 is never the simplified version of the Type 96. MBT-2000 is totally new, sharing a high percentage of old components found in older Chinese tanks, except for a new turrets, a bigger gun (125mm smoothbore cannon) and a Ukraine 1200bhp engine. The Type 96 is basically a further developement from the Type-80III MBT.

Type 99 is a further developement from Type 98. Type 98 and Type 96's was developed in parallel with each other.

Quickie · 12-10-2009

I don't see the point of linking a modern tank to a very old tank model. Too many components were either modernised, redesigned or replaced , and also, new capabilities were added in.

Semi-Lobster · 12-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhino123

Actually what Semi Lobster holds some truth. Type 96 and MBT-2000 did share some lineage to old T-54 MBT. But MBT-2000 is never the simplified version of the Type 96. MBT-2000 is totally new, sharing a high percentage of old components found in older Chinese tanks, except for a new turrets, a bigger gun (125mm smoothbore cannon) and a Ukraine 1200bhp engine. The Type 96 is basically a further developement from the Type-80III MBT.

Type 99 is a further developement from Type 98. Type 98 and Type 96's was developed in parallel with each other.

Both the Type 96 and the MBT-2000 are two parallel branches derived of the Type 90 project which itself is derived from the Type 85 which is derived Type 80 which is derived from the Type 69/79 which is based on the Type 59 which was a direct copy of the T-54. The Type 98/99 of China's third generation of tanks should be considered a fantastic achievement as they're the first Chinese tanks not directly derived from the T-54. The Type 96 was built from the ground up to be a indigenised Chinese tank, while the MBT-2000 was designed like many of its predecessors, for export which can be seen in it development history where there was an emphasis on modular, parts with international cooperation for various global partners (mostly Western Europe and the CIS) and cost effectiveness of design and production (45% of the MBT-2000 parts are from older models). There are many important improvements from the Type 85/88, many of which where learned during the Type 96's development.

Lion · 12-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quickie

I don't see the point of linking a modern tank to a very old tank model. Too many components were either modernised, redesigned or replaced , and also, new capabilities were added in.

Totally agree. And its a stereo typing!

Lion · 12-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

Both the Type 96 and the MBT-2000 are two parallel branches derived of the Type 90 project which itself is derived from the Type 85 which is derived Type 80 which is derived from the Type 69/79 which is based on the Type 59 which was a direct copy of the T-54. The Type 98/99 of China's third generation of tanks should be considered a fantastic achievement as they're the first Chinese tanks not directly derived from the T-54. The Type 96 was built from the ground up to be a indigenized Chinese tank, while the MBT-2000 was designed like many of its predecessors, for export which can be seen in it development history where there was an emphasis on modular, parts with international cooperation for various global partners (mostly Western Europe and the CIS) and cost effectiveness of design and production (45% of the MBT-2000 parts are from older models). There are many important improvements from the Type 85/88, many of which where learned during the Type 96's development.

Please go take a look at China defense forum regarding Type85II bfore you spoke rubbish in here. Type79/80 is never based on Type 59. Type 59 is basically a copy of T-54.

Semi-Lobster · 12-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lion

Please go take a look at China defense forum regarding Type85II bfore you spoke rubbish in here. Type79/80 is never based on Type 59. Type 59 is basically a copy of T-54.

Type 69/79 Main Battle Tank - SinoDefence.com

Type 88 Main Battle Tank - SinoDefence.com

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type96.asp

It says on this very site that these tanks are improved variants of the Type 59.

Lion · 12-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

Type 69/79 Main Battle Tank - SinoDefence.com

Type 88 Main Battle Tank - SinoDefence.com

ZTZ96 (Type 96) Main Battle Tank - SinoDefence.com

It says on this very site that these tanks are improved variants of the Type 59.

Jesus.. What happen to these sino defense for sprouting rubbish? Go take a look at China defense forum. I bet the people there are more prof on these. But I don't think is very courtesy for me to directly link there to here. So go and dig it up yrself.

rhino123 · 12-10-2009

Actually according to army guide (Army Guide - Type 85-II, Main battle tank), Type 85II was based on Type 80. And according to deagel (Type 85 II / T-85 II, Type 85-HM) Type 80 was based on Type 80 which is based on Russian's T-62 which itself was a further development of the T-54.

However we cannot look at things this way. If we are going down the ancestory of the tank, we might as well said that the MBT is actually basing on ancient steam engine.

Semi-Lobster · 12-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lion

Jesus.. What happen to these sino defense for sprouting rubbish? Go take a look at China defense forum. I bet the people there are more prof on these. But I don't think is very courtesy for me to directly link there to here. So go and dig it up yrself.

You're getting awfully worked up about some pretty old tanks. I'm not trying to insult anybody here, I'm just point out that, as far as I know, there has been a steady development of Chinese tanks based on the Type 59. If you think this information is incorrect then contact admin of this site and tell him what you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhino123

Actually according to army guide (Army Guide - Type 85-II, Main battle tank), Type 85II was based on Type 80. And according to deagel (Type 85 II / T-85 II, Type 85-HM) Type 80 was based on Type 80 which is based on Russian's T-62 which itself was a further development of the T-54.

However we cannot look at things this way. If we are going down the ancestory of the tank, we might as well said that the MBT is actually basing on ancient steam engine.

It's a much more direct ancestry than that but you're right. What's most relevant about this is that the MBT-2000 has 10% parts commonality from the Type 59, 15% from the Type 69, and 20% from the Type 85/88C which means research, testing and mass-production can be done very quickly and efficiently. Whats most important about the MBT-2000 is the 55% of the tank that is new.

Lion · 12-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

It's a much more direct ancestry than that but you're right. What's most relevant about this is that the MBT-2000 has 10% parts commonality from the Type 59, 15% from the Type 69, and 20% from the Type 85/88C which means research, testing and mass-production can be done very quickly and efficiently. Whats most important about the MBT-2000 is the 55% of the tank that is new.

Can you tell me what 10% part common with Type 59? Because it uses wheel and track and got a turret plus a main gun?

Or you are sprouting rubbish again?

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