New pices from Chinese special forces

And the reasons they are Special Forces are? Motorcycle side cars were phased out in the Second World War and Quads could be used by anybody. If you tried toi use one operationally you would quickly find their limitations. The turreted minigun is a joke as it is missing amongst other things (if it was real) its power and feed supplies let alone the harmonics on its mount due to its its recoil and spinning barrels. Armed 4x4s were trialled by the US Army in the 1980s and were found wanting - especially in regards to protection for the crew against all manner of threats including the elements and the rocket launchers are a joke too. The blast from the rockets would incinerate the crews and severley damage if not disable the vehicle on the first shot.

For those of you that are interested check out this website it may answer your questions about these pics.

http://www.china-defense.com/pla/lmr/lmr-1.html

Hope it helps

Pure conjecture. English translations of Chinese articles, including ones I have done, describe it as a trials unit only. It lacks any sort of sustainability or protection and was not described in any Chinese article I have read/translated as a special forces unit - only as a light mechanised airborne unit. Airborne are not special forces in the PLA. It all reminds me of the US Army's 9th light infantry division from the 70s and 80s, or if you are oold er the old TV series Rat Patrol. One rifle round into the driver is all that is required to knock these vehicles out.

Hm, on the light vehicle subject.
In the past one important capability of SOFs in the field was mobility. Since they had to operate covertly and with little support, being light and mobile was more important than protection.
Those light jeeps were not meant to fight regular army units. They're rather scouting vehicles with MMG / HMG for self protection.
And hitting a driver in a jeep moving at 30-50km/h, who is perhaps maneuvering, is protected by his mates laying down suppresive fire from .308 and / or .50 weapons and that all during night isn't easy at all.
Same for the quads. There are scenarios where you have to cover greater areas to scout. A jeep is alredy too heavy to move around, but a cross country motor cycle is too light to carry the stuff.

I'll tell you now, if a vehicle is going 30-50km/hr cross country the guys innside are strapped in tight. I don't wish to be rude but have you actually been off roading, night ops etc. Firing from a moving vehicle and a person lying down is a waste of ammunition and more dangerous to the vehicle and crew than to anything you are aiming at. Quads are great but really are only good for scouting and light resupply, as they can be fitted with a really good little trailer. Quads are easily loaded off balance.

The big factor is that the unit, at best is a couple of companies strong, is moved by helicopter so it restricts the number that can be deployed at once. They are airborne personnel by the way not SOF. No tanks or APCs as written in the the other article that is refered to in the thread. This info is taken from more than one reliable Chinese language source.

Well, my reply here was not specificly directed at this experimental unit, but more generally at the use of light vehicles for SpecOps.
Firing from a moving vehicle in rough terrain is of course anything but accurate. However, if that supressive fire can prevent someone in the bushes from taking accurate shots at you, I don't think it's a waste of ammo.

Quads are great but really are only good for scouting and light resupply, as they can be fitted with a really good little trailer. Quads are easily loaded off balance.

Have a look at photos from Afghanistan of Aussie and Brit Specfor troops and youll find just how usefull quads and light 4x4's really are. For long range recce, fast attack and light transport duties they are unsurpassed.

You need to understand that 4X4's and quads are used slightly differently in western forces. You dont fight from a quad. They are basically a recce vehicle. There are pics of the Chinese using them as fighting platforms but they are using stand off weapons. They are not designed to get up close and dirty.

A gunned up 4X4 on the other hand can and does get used for fast attack work. An SAS manned section of 2 or 4 4X4's bristling with machine guns (I think the 25mm cannon aint the most usefull from a weight/benefit perspective) would give most leg infantry units caught in the open a very bad mauling.

They are not designed to attack fortified positions or trenchlines. In the hands of professionals who know how to use them in the correct situation such vehicles are extremelly effective

Originally Posted by chakos

Have a look at photos from Afghanistan of Aussie and Brit Specfor troops and youll find just how usefull quads and light 4x4's really are. For long range recce, fast attack and light transport duties they are unsurpassed.

You need to understand that 4X4's and quads are used slightly differently in western forces. You dont fight from a quad. They are basically a recce vehicle. There are pics of the Chinese using them as fighting platforms but they are using stand off weapons. They are not designed to get up close and dirty.

A gunned up 4X4 on the other hand can and does get used for fast attack work. An SAS manned section of 2 or 4 4X4's bristling with machine guns (I think the 25mm cannon aint the most usefull from a weight/benefit perspective) would give most leg infantry units caught in the open a very bad mauling.

They are not designed to attack fortified positions or trenchlines. In the hands of professionals who know how to use them in the correct situation such vehicles are extremelly effective

You really have NFI

Well explain to me where i am wrong rather than make such a random statement without backing it up

We basically agree on the quads. The 12.7 anti-materiel rifle and PF-98 rocket launcher are for show. Fire either weapon and you can write that driver off. Where is the spare ammunition and the vehicle would be off balance once it was mounted and got moving. These vehicles are not real big. The PLA soldiers are not carrying a lot of kit with them so the photos are all PR. See what Western soldiers carry when deploying and you will see what I mean.

As foir Afghanistan, the Brits are getting up-armoured vehicles and the Australians use 6x6 vehicles, and neither force used light 4x4 vehicles as you can't carry enough equipment for extended patrols and survival gear. I have actually been in the same type of bush and terrain (not location) where these type of generally operate and hit and run ops are not their forte. To many bastards with assault rifles ruin their day.

As for not understanding the PLA go to the Jamestown Organisation's China Brief, look up Martin Andrew, and get back to me. As for light 4x4 machine gun gun 'jeeps' shooting up leg infantry, I don't believe you will see modern well trained infantry too concerned. They would disperse, lie down and quietly and confidently return fire. If the 4x4s stop to hit the target they would be defeated. Hit and run is good for quick close ambushing but infantry in the open are a different matter.

Originally Posted by gizhou

As foir Afghanistan, the Brits are getting up-armoured vehicles and the Australians use 6x6 vehicles, and neither force used light 4x4 vehicles as you can't carry enough equipment for extended patrols and survival gear. I have actually been in the same type of bush and terrain (not location) where these type of generally operate and hit and run ops are not their forte. To many bastards with assault rifles ruin their day.

SAS of both Australia and UK use modified Land rover 110's (e.g. the pink panther) for long range reconnaissance other special duties, they seldom "hit" their enemies unless they are detected and engaged.





I would assume the same would apply to PLA's special forces, unlike in Hollywood movies, special forces in real life do very little killing, their primary duty is intelligence gathering, sabotage, and from time to time eliminating very specific target, they do not need a lot of firepower or protection, and excessive armour and armament can become burdens.

Originally Posted by King_Comm

SAS of both Australia and UK use modified Land rover 110's (e.g. the pink panther) for long range reconnaissance other special duties, they seldom "hit" their enemies unless they are detected and engaged.

[qimg]http://www.twenot.nl/Specials/Landrover/Landrover%20SAS%207.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.lro.com/images/article_midimages/LRO-SAS-023.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.lro.com/images/article_midimages/LRO-SAS-007.jpg[/qimg]

I would assume the same would apply to PLA's special forces, unlike in Hollywood movies, special forces in real life do very little killing, their primary duty is intelligence gathering, sabotage, and from time to time eliminating very specific target, they do not need a lot of firepower or protection, and excessive armour and armament can become burdens.

Gee I guess all those specially modified Perentie 6 x 6 long range patrol vehicles that were built in Australia must be sitting gathering dust. Of course using a commercial webiste photo of a Brtish short wheel based Land Rover which haven't been in Australian service for decades reveals your knowledge of the subject.

gizhou, We've been reading your post. You need to read the forum rules and post in a more respectful manner.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/anno...e-read-20.html

bd popye super moderator

Originally Posted by gizhou

Gee I guess all those specially modified Perentie 6 x 6 long range patrol vehicles that were built in Australia must be sitting gathering dust. Of course using a commercial webiste photo of a Brtish short wheel based Land Rover which haven't been in Australian service for decades reveals your knowledge of the subject.

Where did I say that 6x6 vehicles weren't used? And since I have mentioned the British SAS, what's wrong with showing the picture of the pink panther? the pictures were intended to illustrate my point of 4x4's in special forces.

And here are a few pictures of Australians and their 4x4 land rovers. The first two were taken in Afghanistan.

Can you named the Chinese name for every MR unit. thx