Highlights of President Hu Jin Tao's inspection of PLA HK Garrison, 29-06-2012

Originally Posted by MwRYum

I loled so hard from 7:17 - 7:25.

The HK garrison has even something better:

LD-2000 land based CIWS - note the trucks beside the HQ-6D formation.

Originally Posted by Insignius

The HK garrison has even something better:

LD-2000 land based CIWS - note the trucks beside the HQ-6D formation.

Damn, yeah I missed that!

This, of course, leads to the question why the HK garisson needs anti PGM/cruise missile defenses at all... Anyone would dare to attack such an international city?

Anyone have a breakdown of the entire PLA Garrison in HK?

I do wonder if there's any actual need of attacking HK or the placement of military units, since aside from stationing troops as a symbolic move, HK is almost as unarmed as Geneva. Regardless, would stationing troops make HK more vulnerable? Or would HK be able to escape as a target because of its international status as a destination of anything BUT military?

Come on guys, surely you all remember the very explicit threats Taiwan made, when Chen was in power and tensions were high, about reducing HK and Shanghai to ruin if the PRC ever tried to take Taiwan back?

They even made plans to try and bomb the Three Gorges Damn.

HK has no military significance other than the actual units the PLA stations there, which are entirely for defensive purposes anyways, but it is a critically important economic and financial centre for China, and as such, would be well worth protecting, especially since it's location makes it very vulnerable and there would be very little warning or chances to mount an effective intercept if someone who wanted to attack China selected it as one of the first places to attack.

In addition, it's close proximity to the manufacturing hubs and shipyards of the Pearl River Delta would also allow long range SAMs like HQ9s to provide cover for those areas as well, and you will get a little extra range and warning time with HQ9s in HK rather than on the mainland. That could be why the HQ9s are still in HK even though tensions with Taiwan has eased significantly lately.

Although saying that, has anyone spotted HQ9s in or around HK recently? You would think that with somewhere as densely populated and developed as HK, someone would have spotted them at some point or know where they are normally based. Are we 100% sure the HQ9s are still there?

Sounds fair enough. Never thought of the most obvious reason, that any invading army could just as well use HK as bridgehead to the rest of China. It's an ideal natural harbour ontop of that!

Anyone have a breakdown of the entire PLA Garrison in HK?

The HK garisson is brigade sized and currently in transformation to become an integrated brigade battle group with different specialized battalions. I'll try to find more accurate TOE and Orbat, but as far as I know, they have some very good stuff enabling them to be some kind of testbed for new organizational structures too, leading some people to believe that they might be prepared for combat duties beside their garisson job.

Originally Posted by Insignius

Sounds fair enough. Never thought of the most obvious reason, that any invading army could just as well use HK as bridgehead to the rest of China. It's an ideal natural harbour ontop of that!



The HK garisson is brigade sized and currently in transformation to become an integrated brigade battle group with different specialized battalions. I'll try to find more accurate TOE and Orbat, but as far as I know, they have some very good stuff enabling them to be some kind of testbed for new organizational structures too, leading some people to believe that they might be prepared for combat duties beside their garisson job.

Hong Kong is still separated from China by a river. Back in the old days, people who wanted to escape the mainland still had to swim to Hing Kong. So it would not be a good place as a bridgehead.

Originally Posted by plawolf

Come on guys, surely you all remember the very explicit threats Taiwan made, when Chen was in power and tensions were high, about reducing HK and Shanghai to ruin if the PRC ever tried to take Taiwan back?

They even made plans to try and bomb the Three Gorges Damn.

HK has no military significance other than the actual units the PLA stations there, which are entirely for defensive purposes anyways, but it is a critically important economic and financial centre for China, and as such, would be well worth protecting, especially since it's location makes it very vulnerable and there would be very little warning or chances to mount an effective intercept if someone who wanted to attack China selected it as one of the first places to attack.

In addition, it's close proximity to the manufacturing hubs and shipyards of the Pearl River Delta would also allow long range SAMs like HQ9s to provide cover for those areas as well, and you will get a little extra range and warning time with HQ9s in HK rather than on the mainland. That could be why the HQ9s are still in HK even though tensions with Taiwan has eased significantly lately.

Although saying that, has anyone spotted HQ9s in or around HK recently? You would think that with somewhere as densely populated and developed as HK, someone would have spotted them at some point or know where they are normally based. Are we 100% sure the HQ9s are still there?

HQ-9 range is more than 200km, so really it doesn't need to be stationed in HK to protect HK

Originally Posted by antiterror13

HQ-9 range is more than 200km, so really it doesn't need to be stationed in HK to protect HK

The Annual Report to Congress 2012 seems to suggest that the HHQ-9 has a range of about 120km.

Originally Posted by antiterror13

HQ-9 range is more than 200km, so really it doesn't need to be stationed in HK to protect HK

Range isn't everything. Topography is also very important. For example, I doubt very much that any incoming cruise missiles would be flying anywhere as high as most of HK's buildings are tall. Having a SAM in range on the mainland is still no good if it cannot target the incoming bogies because buildings are in the way.

Stationing HQ9s and other SAMs on HK itself would allow them to be place such that they have unobstructed fields and view to best detect and engage incoming threats.

Originally Posted by plawolf

Although saying that, has anyone spotted HQ9s in or around HK recently? You would think that with somewhere as densely populated and developed as HK, someone would have spotted them at some point or know where they are normally based. Are we 100% sure the HQ9s are still there?

Not even once...if APCs convoy drive through the streets during the routine change of guard rotation can get on headline, and get people freakout, think about those big HQ9 TEL vehicles mobilize in convoy...the fact is, we at HK never saw any PLA vehicle with more than 6 wheels.

Besides, with HQ9 always deploy in pre-determined launch sites and consider just about every plot of land in HK, if not for parks (ie off limit to vehicle of all kind) then it's solid gold real estate that only the rarest occasion would left idle, plus in most areas buildings are so tall they'd make very poor SAM sites - whether for launcher or radar.

And yes I said radar...unless that radar is sitting on top of a high hill that has excellent LOS all round and have datalink (best wired, wireless is prone to jamming) to the TEL and command units, it'd be waste of time because the SAM site would more likely have restricted direction of engagement.

Then there's the TEL...in HK where we've wall-like building density and height at 30-stories average, SAM would be more likely slam into some building than anything else...

And given any viable attack would be from sea, you might better off deploy 054A from the SSF instead.

Though on the simple subject of "seeing those vehicles", not a bad thing if they display a few during the annual openhouse event, though if you want to see HQ9 TEL, you can take picture to your heart's content at the aerospace museum outside Beijing, where they've it on display, in erected mode.

Originally Posted by MwRYum

Not even once...if APCs convoy drive through the streets during the routine change of guard rotation can get on headline, and get people freakout, think about those big HQ9 TEL vehicles mobilize in convoy...the fact is, we at HK never saw any PLA vehicle with more than 6 wheels.

Besides, with HQ9 always deploy in pre-determined launch sites and consider just about every plot of land in HK, if not for parks (ie off limit to vehicle of all kind) then it's solid gold real estate that only the rarest occasion would left idle, plus in most areas buildings are so tall they'd make very poor SAM sites - whether for launcher or radar.

And yes I said radar...unless that radar is sitting on top of a high hill that has excellent LOS all round and have datalink (best wired, wireless is prone to jamming) to the TEL and command units, it'd be waste of time because the SAM site would more likely have restricted direction of engagement.

Then there's the TEL...in HK where we've wall-like building density and height at 30-stories average, SAM would be more likely slam into some building than anything else...

And given any viable attack would be from sea, you might better off deploy 054A from the SSF instead.

Though on the simple subject of "seeing those vehicles", not a bad thing if they display a few during the annual openhouse event, though if you want to see HQ9 TEL, you can take picture to your heart's content at the aerospace museum outside Beijing, where they've it on display, in erected mode.

Yes, good points, which is why I asked whether we have ever had confirmation that HQ9s were ever deployed in HK to start with.

Something else to consider is that with mobile systems like HQ9s, one of the key strengths is their mobility and ability to shoot and scoot to avoid retaliation.

With somewhere as densely populated and developed as HK, your scope for movement is really restricted as well as the suitable sites you could set up, as you have already touched out.

Just to put the cherry on top, HK is also a very small island. Take out the bridges and any HQ9s deployed there are effectively trapped. Not a goo position to be in.

There are merits to deploying HQ9s on HK, but there are also drawbacks.