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Faster pace of modernizing tanks

This is a discussion on Faster pace of modernizing tanks within the Army forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; This is more serious. I don't understand why the army is still using T-59's, t-62's and T-69 tanks. As far ...

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    Delbert is offline Member
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    Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    This is more serious.

    I don't understand why the army is still using T-59's, t-62's and T-69 tanks. As far as I am concerned those are totally out of date... I think those must be decommissioned and scrapped.

    I don't think those army tanks can do much on a modern battle. Remember the T-72 Tanks of Iraq lost against the Abrams of US, even given the fact that the Iraqi's might not be well trained. T-69 and older versions are more out to date...

    Sine China already has new type of tanks, why not mass produce it at a higher rate to replace the aging tanks? like T-98,99's?

    I know it wouldn't be wise to reduce the tanks to 2,000-3,000 given the fact that China has a large land area and huge land border with large number of troops... It is better to be around 8,000-10,000 I think.

    But what I am pointing out is replacing the 1950's and 1960's tanks ASAP.

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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    think the PRC is still at a cross road on if the type96/99 is the tank that is needed. simply put it is way to light at 50 tons to match the western 65-70 ton monsters and If the ROC upgrades its M-60A3 to Israeli Sabre standard with 120mm smooth bore and slabs of advance composite armour, well the PRC has a bit of a problem.

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    sinowarrior is offline Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    what is the point? it is unlikely for China to have a land war soon, and the current inventory of 96/98/99 is sufficient for the potential conflict with Taiwan, don't forget China also started to equit its amphibious mech divisions with AAAVs

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    RedMercury is online now Junior Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    Exactly. Considering the outcome of the recent elections in TW, money is much better spent improving rural education and healthcare.

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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    It is simple math. In 25 years China will need 3 earths to meet its resource/energy needs. Intel indicates China will make a attempt to expand its current territory much like every other civilization through history when it develops the means to do so which will be around 2015.

    We as humans are the same as we were in 1939, 1916, 1870s, 1700 and so on. China at one point will need to or want to create its own manifest destiny. Thus, WAR. This is the human condition. We kill each-other because we want something. The U.S as a superpower has now set precedence for thought followed by action.

    Now, China will in the next 10-20 years will have aggressive thought followed by action. Its just the human condition. So, in closing yes China will need to build a big giant tank better than its OPFOR in order to meet its goal and the human condition.

    WE ARE ONE NASTY LITTLE ANIMAL.

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    gizhou is offline Banned Idiot
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by sinowarrior View Post
    what is the point? it is unlikely for China to have a land war soon, and the current inventory of 96/98/99 is sufficient for the potential conflict with Taiwan, don't forget China also started to equit its amphibious mech divisions with AAAVs
    Er AAAvs vs 105mm guns and automatic cannon is a one sided battle - there will a lot of sunk AAAvs. Forget about use barrel fired laser guided missiles from AAAVs and Type 03 light tanks whilst they are coming ashore as those pesky waves keep getting in the way when you try and track something. How are the MBTs supposed to get ashore in the face of MBTs, shore based artillery and anti-shipping missiles, attack helicopters,strike aircraft, let alone infantry ATGMs, land and sea mines and anti-landing craft barriers - and oh yes suitable beaches with sand hard enough for them to land and move on.

    The PLA keeps the Type 59/69/80 et al because there are areas where you don;'t need Type 96/98/99 et al and the lighter weights give them better mobility on the infrastructure. You don't need a Type 99 to shoot up **********.
    Last edited by sumdud; 06-07-2008 at 02:57 AM.

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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by utelore View Post
    It is simple math. In 25 years China will need 3 earths to meet its resource/energy needs.
    That is if you want each and every one of them to live like Americans.

    As for the first question above, it depends on the priorities, and it seems like navy and air force getting more priority, being the first line of defense, compared to tanks. Actually the Type 96 is on the lighter side of things, much like the older tanks, and that will provide mobility, and the crux of the production is on this tank, much more than the heavier Type 99.
    "Lets do a thermal sweep."

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    sinowarrior is offline Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by gizhou View Post
    Er AAAvs vs 105mm guns and automatic cannon is a one sided battle - there will a lot of sunk AAAvs. Forget about use barrel fired laser guided missiles from AAAVs and Type 03 light tanks whilst they are coming ashore as those pesky waves keep getting in the way when you try and track something. How are the MBTs supposed to get ashore in the face of MBTs, shore based artillery and anti-shipping missiles, attack helicopters,strike aircraft, let alone infantry ATGMs, land and sea mines and anti-landing craft barriers - and oh yes suitable beaches with sand hard enough for them to land and move on.

    The PLA keeps the Type 59/69/80 et al because there are areas where you don;'t need Type 96/98/99 et al and the lighter weights give them better mobility on the infrastructure. You don't need a Type 99 to shoot up Tibetans or Uyghur peasants.
    by the time PLA decided to send those 99 to the shores, there will not be much of the anti shipping missiles, aircrafts etc etc left, and any MBT from Taiwan is likely to be a molten slug already. So AAAV is enough to shoot up those taiwan peasants running for cover, don'f forget the AAAV also have the so called atuo cannons.

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    Delbert is offline Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    Hmmm... I think the current 2200 modern tanks in its iventory wasn't sufficient enough, considering a possible conflict with China's neighbors...

    Remember, China's vast borders are mostly land... Only the eastern part was water.

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    sinowarrior is offline Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    the border with Indian is moutain, Korea is pretty much hill and moutain, forest on the border with Vietnam, so the only place to use large amour formation will be against Russia, well unless china wants to claim russia far east for resources, i think a small but elite armour formation should be sufficient

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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    The PLA's large tank army from the sixties to the end of the Cold War was meant to fight the Soviet tank army. So its those T-59s, 69s and 80s against the likes of the T-62, T-64, T-72 and T-80. I think there was like 17 to 30 Soviet tank divisions that was ready to roll over from the border of Mongolia to Beijing. That's quite a fight the PLA was facing.

    The T-80 was a particular concern. The developments that led to the Type 90, 96 and eventually to the 98 and 99 was inspired trying to beat this tank. And even after the Cold War ended, and relations thawed with what is now the Russian Republic, the PLA was eager to get some T-80s for examination under the guise of "purchase".

    The need for a large tank army in China is not for Taiwan, but an insurance against future resurgent Russia that may turn enemy to China again, which is not that implausible, considering how threatened the Russians feel about the gravity of Chinese economic power and outnumbering them in the Far East. They would think that the Chinese is out to grab their Siberian resources.
    "Lets do a thermal sweep."

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    Delbert is offline Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    Not necessary Russia... Even on mountains tanks can be used to provide covering fire against enemy outpost, same also with forest... I am not even considering offensive. Even for defensive, I think 2200 modern wasn't enough..

    Look at USA who has land border with Canada and Mexico only, has around 8000 tanks too...

    How about the borders with Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan,Thailand, Laos, Bhutan, Nepal, Pakistan, Myanmar and Mongolia? These are also vast land borders needed to be protected. China with larger land border must ofcourse have a larger amount of armoured forces... At the same time modern and well trained.

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    sinowarrior is offline Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    sending tanks to Tibet? that will be nightmare from logistical point of view, as for forest area with thai, vietnam etc, the AAAV should be enough, the soft ground is not ideal place for 99/98. The releif for the earth quake already showed that PLA does not need to place its tank force along the border, rather by improving its strategitic lift ability, it can send the armoured division to any potential warzone. having those cold war mentality and array all the tanks along the border is just too costly, and for most of the chinese neibour upgraded 59/69 are enough

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    RedMercury is online now Junior Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    China certainly doesn't need type-99 to shoot up *******
    Last edited by sumdud; 06-07-2008 at 03:02 AM.

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    Delbert is offline Member
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    Re: Faster pace of modernizing tanks

    But what if a conflict erupts like example going against US, and on of China's neighbor sided with US, since those were not thoroughly guarded, US can use those nations as a launching point for offensive by its tank division right?

    Not necessary US, even other countries can do that right?

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