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EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

This is a discussion on EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo within the Army forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Common sense dictates that the Chinese defense industry is working on AESA radar. The lack of photos is about as ...

  1. #76
    adeptitus is offline Senior Member
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    Re: EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

    Common sense dictates that the Chinese defense industry is working on AESA radar. The lack of photos is about as irrelevant as the lack of photos for Russian PAK-FA. We all know it's coming sooner or later. The question remains is how far is the R&D process.

    The relationship between Pakistan and China is very different from that of Myanmar. China has invested a lot of assistance and tech transfer to the Pakistani military aviation industry over the past few decades. Products like the K-8 and JF-17 are proofs of this relationship. For Pakistan, it's not a simple matter of choosing a plane from foreign suppliers.

    Myanmar has no domestic aviation industry. There's no aircraft assembly facility and anything they buy, it a purchase and delivery. The MiG-29 has a terrible combat record, but has been around nearly 3 decades and went through many upgrades and improvements. It's a more mature platform than the J-10. Buying the MiG-29SMT is a more conservative choice to obtain balance vs. Royal Thai AF F-16 and JAS-39's.

    During the Soviet era, the qualify of their aircraft workmanship was not geared toward long service life. Their combat aircraft were built to one massive confrontation in WW3, and the machines were pushed to their limits to achieve that goal. The MiG-29 was originally intended to be fed with very high octane fuel for maximum performance, and if the engine burned out, so be it. But this philosophy doesn't work in the cost-conscious post-cold war era. I think the MiG-29's in indian AF service has forced the Russians to adopt to the new environment, and the MiG-29's produced today are far better in quality with longer airframe lifespan than their predessors.

    The Burmese are very fortunate that they're buying the MiG today, after the Indians already dealed with the numerous problems and forced the Russians to fix them. IMO the MiG-29 platform today has probably reached the same maturity level as the F-16 C/D. The J-10 is not there yet (only been in service for 5-6 years!), but will be soon.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    I am wondering if the arm embargo was finally lifted, what would China's first purchase be? Helicopters, A400M military transport? or maybe even sub-system like the carrier's catapults and things like that. It would definitely improve and speed up her R&D sector once China had excess to the modern western equipments.
    It's not likely that the EU would lift the arms embargo. Here's a good article to read and understand their current "world view":
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europ...st-in-disarray

    The EU arms embargo take the following into consideration:

    The code prohibits a sale where:
    # it would violate international commitments,
    # there is a "clear risk" that the export might be used for internal repression,
    # the export could provoke or prolong armed conflict or aggravate existing tensions,
    # there is a "clear risk" that the arms would be used aggressively against another country or to assert a territorial claim.

    The code calls for special caution where:
    # serious violations of human rights have been established,
    # the weapons might be used against EU allies and friends,
    # there is a risk of unintended transfer of technology or the use of reverse engineering.

    The "clear risk" on using arms to aggressively asset territorial claim is one hurdle that's not likely to pass. At best, China might be able to get EU to re-define its embargo terms on what's included/excluded.

    On the other hand, the embargo also forces China to spend more resources on its own R&D, which in the long run might be far better than adopting the mentality of importing everything from abroad as "better" -- Taiwan is a good example of this mentality.
    Last edited by adeptitus; 01-29-2010 at 02:48 PM.

  2. #77
    montyp165 is offline Junior Member
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    Re: EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

    Quote Originally Posted by adeptitus View Post
    On the other hand, the embargo also forces China to spend more resources on its own R&D, which in the long run might be far better than adopting the mentality of importing everything from abroad as "better" -- Taiwan is a good example of this mentality.
    That is reason enough why Chinese being able to develop world-beating hardware is so important and the best smack against the naysayers who can't think otherwise.

  3. #78
    Maggern's Avatar
    Maggern is offline Junior Member
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    Re: EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Just read this from the defencetalk website.

    Reference:

    1. China urges EU to lift arms embargo | Defense & Security News at Defense Talk

    From there China actually requested (demanded) the lifting of arms embargoment from EU. Which mean, China did requested to lift the ban contradicting to what we have believe.

    I am wondering if the arm embargoment was finally lifted, what would China's first purchase be? Helicopters, A400M military transport? or maybe even sub-system like the carrier's catapaults and things like that. It would definitely improve and speed up her R&D sector once China had excess to the modern western equipments.
    Well, to be honest I'd say that wanting an arms embargo to lift and taking advatage of its removal are two different things. Having any kind of embargo against yourself is a political liability. Any time the EU and China looks at their political relationship, the arms embargo flashes back in their faces. It's only natural China would want to get rid of it, if anything to show that there are no hard feelings.

  4. #79
    atoll80 is offline New Member
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    Re: EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

    um...I think for China no matter EU embargo lift-off or not, as long China's defense industry find out solution for long-term or short-term of PLA need, maintain innovative design and good innovation, it's going OK.
    EU always think China not a democratic country, and always in line with US in policy so no embargo will lift, but we know that all just about politic.

  5. #80
    atoll80 is offline New Member
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    Re: EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

    China also very lucky condition compare the country that depend from buying defense stuff from someone else. Indonesia is one example with their F-16 squad, Hercules transport during embargo by US. Maybe China can send their engineer to learn know-how in defense industry in non-EU country like Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, Serbia as part of exchange program between defense industry or China can participate with other country in defense project.(also can be exchange military official)

  6. #81
    Red___Sword is offline Junior Member
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    Re: EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

    Thanks for digging this Sh*t out atoll80

    Guys, take a look at the first post of this thread, the date...
    take a look at the last post of this thread, the date...

    What dose this kind of BS matters anyway?

    Just keep in mind this kind of topic is the same like the promise the P5 of UN made to the bunch like Germany, Japan, India... that "We WILL help you to get a permanent membership of UN security council."

  7. #82
    siegecrossbow's Avatar
    siegecrossbow is offline Super Moderator
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    Re: EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

    Atoll88 this is your first warning. Stop digging up threads that are several months or even years old. Let old threads reset in peace.

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