SinoDefence Forum

AssassinsMace

It's probably too late anyway. What's the point of dropping it when the only thing they can offer China is the best stuff.

Maggern

I'm guessing there still would be business to be made when it comes to co-development of new equipment. It's a nice way of sharing just a fraction of technology and get information on the counterparts' abilities plus new technology in return.

bladerunner

Yip, I think the Chinese stuffed that one up themselves, and it was their best chance. But to come out and say they reserved the right to retake Taiwan by force if necessary, weeks out from when the EU were gonna make a decision, was stupid.

Violet Oboe

Merkel is known for being negatively biased against China: she did e.g. compare the PRC in public with her ´former´ home country GDR (East Germany, reunified with West Germany in 1990). (...very fitting comparison , just like equating Romania with the US only for being both in the same ´western camp´.)

Some rumors were actually floating around in Berlin that Merkel in private drew parallels between PRC and Nazi Germany depicting China as the most dangerous peril for ´freedom and democracy´ in the 21st century. Obviously any of Washington's grey eminences can be certainly very proud about their obedient German chancellor puppet...

bladerunner

Exactly my thoughts. These leaders from the ex Soviet bloc are zealots for democracy, a bit like born again christians, whoops. With the Czechs, Poles, in the EU as well its going be like pushing the probverbial uphill.

However it would have been nice to get some jet engines, a bit of composite material tech prhaps

Red Moon

I think this was simply a pretext for the Europeans. When Bush invaded Iraq over their objections, they played the 'China card' on him, and by the start of his second term the Americans were forced to overhaul their policy: "The time for diplomacy is now" said Condoleeza Rice and off she went to Europe at the start of 2005. What came out of this 'diplomacy', as I see it, is that Bush agreed to work with the Europeans on the matter of Iran (hence P5 + 1), and the Europeans agreed to work with the US on China. At first, it was the embargo, but this coordination between the two has grown even to matters of Tibet, Africa, trade, etc. I think some other pretext would have been found if that one had not been provided.

On the other hand, four years one, the success of the Chinese policy regarding Taiwan is worth much much more than pleasing the Europeans.

bladerunner

Thats a very good opinion, I certainly never considered it that way

AssassinsMace

Of course. Making a statement about taking Taiwan by force wasn't the reason. It was an excuse.

Roger604

I think in nearly all areas, China has little to gain from weapons-related trade with Europeans.

The only arms Europe has that China does not have and will not have in the near future are the very cutting edge ones. Obviously, the Europeans will not be selling those to China.

While there are some items like diesel engines where even export goods from Europe have a good lead over domestic systems, these items are lesser and lesser in number. Especially so now that China appears to be finally be able to mass produce its own turbojet / turbine family.

Maybe China would like to take a good look at Charles de Gaulle.

montyp165

Diesel-wise China pretty much can do all things indigenously, the only significant powerplant issue is the gas turbine tech, of which with major investment in resources and development shouldn't be a problem for too much longer. Access to Euro tech works best on projects like military use of Airbus or Eurocopter designs, for example, as well as easier access to sub-system suppliers.

Armand2REP

EU Presidency Mulls Lifting China Arms Embargo

By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 26 Jan 2010 12:57


BRUSSELS - The European Union's Spanish presidency is considering whether to lift the bloc's arms embargo on China, Spain's Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said Jan. 26.

Spain is "weighing the pros and cons" of the embargo, which Europe introduced after the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown on Chinese pro-democracy protesters, Moratinos told a press conference.
Related Topics

The European Union has long agreed to reconsider the decision to ban the sale of arms to China, Moratinos said.

France has been one of the main supporters of lifting the ban and "Spain is following that line," he added.

"We are all aware of the new role which China is assuming in the world," and the desirability "to improve relations with China to ensure the best possible dialogue," said Moratinos, whose country holds the EU presidency for the first half of the year.

The time is right to "consider whether the consequences allow" for the embargo to be lifted, he underlined.

In 2008, the European parliament voted to retain the arms embargo as long as Beijing helps armed forces and groups involved in African conflicts in general.

Moratinos was reacting to reporters' questions on comments made by Spain's ambassador in Beijing.

"We hope to deepen discussions on lifting the ban" during Spain's six-month EU presidency, ambassador Carlos Blasco Villa tod the official English-language China Daily.

There is, nonetheless, a reticence to lift the embargo unless done in tandem with the United States, due to security implications, a diplomat added.

EU Presidency Mulls Lifting China Arms Embargo - Defense News

bd popeye

Armand2REP, what do you think of the EU arms embargo against China?

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kroko

In other words the embargo will never be lifted, which is good. It encourages china to develop its own tech, and not rely on others

Armand2REP

I'm all for it, not for the rationalisation of human rights abuse as advocated by the Council and American Congress, but for the rampant IP theft the PLA is guilty of. While the concept of selling China billions of French arms is appealing for our industries, we don't want to end up like Russia who has everything they sell them copied and competing with them on the open arms market. While China hasn't had much export success except to the third world, the quality of their equipment is increasing and at much cheaper levels than we can compete with. The first markets China will cut into are Russian, but it is only a matter of time before they get into the higher end. Selling them our equipment will only cut into our future exports. We would be selling out our future for a quick Franc.

kwiekie

What kind of military technology has EU to offer to China? Most critical technology has China already developed or obtained.