SinoDefence Forum

crobato · 02-03-2009

Certainly didn't stop European technology, such as diesel engines for tanks, subs and surface warships.

Neither did the embargo even stop Great Britain from shipping the remaining Spey engines to China, made into JH-7s. That one was even under Tony Blair's watch.

escobar · 02-06-2009

the embargo is only window dressing and they know that.Even if China can not acquire military hardware she bought lots of other military stuff that is important for PLA

bladerunner · 02-06-2009

In what weapon, guidance, tracking systems can you say they match the west in. At best its probably cost them a generation in systems.

Mr T · 02-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by escobar

the embargo is only window dressing and they know that.

Hardly. Just because China can buy items like conventional engines doesn't mean the restrictions on other systems and components aren't significant.

Is the embargo effective? How do you measure whether that is the case or not? I would say whether the embargo restricts sales of items (of a decent quality) it cannot buy elsewhere.

Baibar of Jalat · 02-06-2009

China can still buy dual-use technology. Just ship it to non sanctioned nations and then re export to China. Also most private companies selling these technologies care more about contracts then making sure it does not go to third party nations.

escobar · 02-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladerunner

In what weapon, guidance, tracking systems can you say they match the west in. At best its probably cost them a generation in systems.

i did not say they match the west

escobar · 02-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr T

Hardly. Just because China can buy items like conventional engines doesn't mean the restrictions on other systems and components aren't significant.

Is the embargo effective? How do you measure whether that is the case or not? I would say whether the embargo restricts sales of items (of a decent quality) it cannot buy elsewhere.

I don t have a proof but it does not need to be in PLA to know that China acquires dual-use technology from europe

bladerunner · 02-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by escobar

I don t have a proof but it does not need to be in PLA to know that China acquires dual-use technology from europe

i was replying to amadaeus

ChinaSoldier · 03-08-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladerunner

In what weapon, guidance, tracking systems can you say they match the west in. At best its probably cost them a generation in systems.

Matching over exceeding Europe, I'd say air defense, ballistic and cruise missiles, space systems, AWACS, and perhaps tanks. The J11B will be probably a good match for Typhoon, as will later variants of J10. Submarines are always giant unknowns.

Russia does not suffer an arms embargo, but that doesn't mean it could match every European system. Europe has very advanced subsystems, but overall military capacity is fragmented and doubtful to me.

bladerunner · 03-08-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinaSoldier

Matching over exceeding Europe, I'd say air defense, ballistic and cruise missiles, space systems, AWACS, and perhaps tanks. The J11B will be probably a good match for Typhoon, as will later variants of J10. Submarines are always giant unknowns.

Russia does not suffer an arms embargo, but that doesn't mean it could match every European system. Europe has very advanced subsystems, but overall military capacity is fragmented and doubtful to me.

Those are only subjective generalisations, but then you have to have well trained men to use such weaponry in a co- ordinated manner.Also their aircraft construction techniques and avionics, jet engines aren't as good as the wests.

PrOeLiTeZ · 03-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladerunner

Those are only subjective generalisations, but then you have to have well trained men to use such weaponry in a co- ordinated manner.Also their aircraft construction techniques and avionics, jet engines aren't as good as the wests.

construction techniques and engines yes i agree, but i disagree with avionics.

AssassinsMace · 09-30-2009

Coming to an end? Interesting to see what the new dynamic would be as a result.

Quote:

September 30, 2009, 11:44AM EST text size: TT
EU Takes Tough Stance Against China
A leading member of the European Parliament wants the 27-member bloc to be more forceful when negotiating with China on investment access
By Andrew Willis

The European Union must toughen its stance when negotiating with China on investment access, according to the newly elected chair of the European Parliament's delegation to China.

Centre-right Italian MEP Crescenzio Rivellini signaled his intention on Tuesday (29 September) to use ongoing negotiations for an upgrade in EU-China relations to step up pressure in this area.

"We will try to use the Partnership and Co-operation Agreement to improve investment access in China for EU companies," he told EUobserver following his election to the post.

Ties between China and the EU are currently set out under a 1985 Trade and Co-operation Agreement but discussions have been ongoing since 2007 to broaden the formal relationship.

While China complains about EU anti-dumping measures that are periodically imposed upon the country's exports, European companies say they are not granted fair access to Chinese markets.

Foreign companies looking to invest in China are frequently forced into joint-venture obligations with local firms, or can run into other restrictions in sectors considered strategic by the Chinese government

However Mr. Rivellini also suggested that further duties might be needed at the European end to restrict the level of shoe and textile imports coming into the bloc from China.

"In the profound crisis that we are going through right now, we should be able to introduce policies that protect European industries," he said.

End the arms embargo
On Thursday (1 October), many of the 1.3 billion inhabitants in Asia's largest nation will turn out to celebrate 60 years since the country's civil war ended and Mao Zedong proclaimed the People's Republic of China.

The government will use the occasion to parade all its latest weaponry through the streets of Beijing, with foreign military strategists keen to assess China's progress in this field over the last ten years.

Following the events of Tiananmen Square in 1989 however, under which the army opened fire on students and other protesters, the EU has held an embargo on selling arms to the China.

Mr. Rivellini says he is in favour of an end to the embargo, which sees European defence manufacturers denied access to the lucrative Chinese market.

"I think we should remember that things have changed somewhat in the last few years. The climate in the relations between China and the rest of the world has changed," he said.

Mr. Rivellini also feels the EU needs to compete harder for influence in Africa and other developing regions, frequently an important source of raw materials.

"The old continent of Europe cannot just stand by and simply look on at an expansionistic policy by China," he said.

bladerunner · 09-30-2009

Quote:

"Mr. Rivellini says he is in favour of an end to the embargo, which sees European defence manufacturers denied access to the lucrative Chinese market.

.
"The old continent of Europe cannot just stand by and simply look on at an expansionistic policy by China," he said.

Same old stuff again, Ho Hum ZZzzzzzzz More mixed messages about nothing. I cant see the arms embargo being lifted with Merkel being relected

kroko · 09-30-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladerunner

Same old stuff again, Ho Hum ZZzzzzzzz More mixed messages about nothing. I cant see the arms embargo being lifted with Merkel being relected

I agree. It is the national governments that call the shots over european policy, not some chair of some delegation.

Maggern · 09-30-2009

Many European leaders were in favour of lifting the embargo back in the day, with the French and German leaders leading on, and even getting the Brits on board. If all those combined efforts could not lift the embargo, it's surely not happening in today's European political climate.

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