Armored cars or Humvees?

I believe they've been working on that and looking beyond Humvees since all the news about IEDs in Iraq.

Probably Armour car is more heavier, less nimble and of cos eats more fuel.

---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace

I believe they've been working on that and looking beyond Humvees since all the news about IEDs in Iraq.

No. Their solution is to upgrade the humvee with a more powerful engine plus added on armour.

Humvee replacement process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well I don't know how credible Wikipedia is but I remember reading and hearing stories that a replacement is planned.

The Humvees were never meant to be combat vehicles, really. But rather affordable transports. For peacekeeping with lower intensity threads, or some limited warfare in the desert were they can rely on their mobility and low profile they are good enough when in the right hands.

After A-stan draws down, the US Army and Marine Corps won't bring back most of these vehicles, for all I know. I think they're looking at leaving a lot of them in the coutry as a donation to the ANA. Lessens the logistical burden of bringing them back. Plus the US military is indeed looking at a replacement program for these vehicles, the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle.

AM General Submits Independent Bid for JLTV | Defense News | defensenews.com

AM General Submits Independent Bid for JLTV
Mar. 28, 2012 - 11:33AM | By KATE BRANNEN

AM General has announced that it has submitted its own bid for the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV), an effort by the U.S. Army and Marine Corps to develop a replacement for its Humvees, adding a new team to an already very competitive field.

AM General, the longtime Humvee maker, is already supporting a bid submitted by General Tactical Vehicles, a joint venture formed in 2007 with General Dynamics Land Systems.
The General Tactical Vehicles team received one of three JLTV technology development contracts in 2008, under which it designed and built a number of prototypes for the Army and Marine Corps to test and evaluate.

[...]

Oshkosh announced March 27 that it is also joining the race, while Navistar and BAE Systems, which paired for the technology development phase, are now competing separately.

The Defense Department has said it plans to award up to three contracts for the 27-month EMD phase. There are two planned JLTV variants: a Combat Tactical Vehicle that can transport four passengers and carry 3,500 pounds. and a Combat Support Vehicle that can transport two passengers and carry 5,100 pounds.
The Army plans to buy at least 50,000 vehicles with the option to buy more, while the Marines could buy 5,500 vehicles. The new target price per vehicle is $250,000. ...

More info, specificliy about the competiors, at the link.

Humvee is more like light truck or sort, not a platform for heavy firefight. However, after some up-armoring it could take on missions that AFV is used but considered as overkill, while MRAP were either unavailable or too clumsy for the situation.

For China, their Humvee- DongFeng Mengshi is a step-up from the old soviet jeep (the local copy, that is), but there's a gap between this and AFV, which could be served well by MRAP....that said, we all do remember that China only recently brokered a co-op treaty with a South African producer famous for their line of MRAP, so it'll take a few years before the first batch of MIC MRAP made to PLA specifications finish certification trials and enter service.

Still, while MRAP can survive a mine, survive a RPG strike is different matter...most likely circumstance is that now with the chaos in Libya, more stockpile of RPGs will enter the black market and ended up in Africa, like in Sudan, where PLA take part in peacekeeping efforts. As such, AFV might not be overkill, because size can be an intimidation factor.

Originally Posted by Lion

Probably Armour car is more heavier, less nimble and of cos eats more fuel.

---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------



No. Their solution is to upgrade the humvee with a more powerful engine plus added on armour.

Armored cars can drive just as fast as Humvees, and regarding its fuel consumption I don't think that overrides the safety of the soldiers.

AssassinsMace is right Lion The humvee up armors were an interim step.
Up armoring a Humvee has a lot of issues because the suspension was just not built for a armored vehicle. So a replacement is a need.
MRAPS were called for as a step too that, the US military started getting MRAPS due too the way some IED's virtually vaporize Humvees but these are also have issues. Although successful on Iraqi's roads, Afghanistan has little in the way of pavement. Uparmored humvees and most Mraps look at the rock pile and fear for there Axles lives.
the Army and Marines have launched replacement efforts they also have requisitioned specialized Mraps like the Oshkosh M-ATV M-ATV : Oshkosh Defense
but even this is just a filler.
the key issues in Humvees vs Armored cars comes too threat, terrain and then price.
A RPG can be defended against by lots of options but if the vehicle cant move though the terrain then it's out of the picture final how much can you lay down for it and it's life cycle. Humvees were built too replace jeeps and operate in open spaces in a conventional war Mraps were built for non conventional conflicts in urban hot spots. they both have there strengths but they both have there kryptonite's. the next generation of utility vehicles Like the US Joint light tactical vehicle is meant too create the best of both worlds.

Well, you're kind of comparing apples and oranges. Armored cars are designed to be armored from the get go, they cannot be modified to be unarmored. Humvees are designed as general purpose transports without armor, but they can be optionally armored.

Among both purpose-built and improvised armored vehicles there are varying degrees of protection and mobility depending on the design, purpose, availability, and/or cost. For example the most heavily ad hoc armored humvees have more ballistic protection and visibility than the default armor and windows of the VN3 or ZFB05, one of which I believe is mentioned in another thread as having been pierced by 7.62mm rounds in Haiti.

Here's a rather lengthy article on the JLTV (Humvee replacement) programm with some good info & a brief history. A really interesting read, I think.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....p31-449170.xml

Moving Forward With Tactical Vehicles
By Diana Wueger - May 01 , 2012

After years of debate over a replacement for the High-Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle, or Humvee, it appears that the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) is finally moving toward a prototype and testing phase that could result in production orders from the U.S. Army and Marine Corps for more than 55,000 vehicles.

A final requirements document, issued in January, states that two variants will be built. The Combat Tactical Vehicle (CTV) will seat four and carry 3,500 lb., while the Combat Support Vehicle (CSV) will carry two troops and transport 5,100 lb. There will be two armor configurations: the basic protection package as well as an add-on kit; and one for multiple missions. A third variant that would have been a six-seat infantry carrier with a mid-weight payload has been scrapped.

Six bids for the JLTV were submitted at the end of March for the 27-month engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) phase contract. The Army is expected to issue three awards in June, each worth up to $65 million. Contractors will have 12 months to build and deliver 20 prototypes for government testing, which will last another 15 months. The decision to begin full-scale production is expected in the second quarter of fiscal 2015, with actual production to start in 2016.

In an era of declining defense budgets, it's no surprise that the competition for one of the last remaining major vehicle modernization contracts is fierce. The JLTV program is expected to cost well over $10 billion, though some put that figure as high as $70 billion, depending on per-unit cost and the number of vehicles ordered.

A joint venture between the Army and Marine Corps, the JLTV is expected to provide better protection for passengers and better payload capacity than the Humvee, while retaining mobility and reducing overall weight. The Army intends to purchase at least 50,000, while the Marine Corps is expected to acquire 5,500 vehicles, though final numbers will depend on cost. ...

The Humvee is also quite wide and flat - very vulnerable to mines and IEDs. The Americans are now following the leads developed by the South Africans in adopting a 'V' shaped armoured hull to improve mine resistance.