Effectiveness of Wheeled ATGMs carriers

[Vanguard1688]

How effective are truck mounted ATGMs like the Beijing Jeep or Iveco mounted with a HJ-8E which cannot be fired on the move or the the 4x4 WZ-551 mounted with HJ-9s which could be fired on the move. Under what circumstances are they used in modern warfare?

[utelore]

they are used against everything from armour to inf in buildings or bunkers. only drawback is the big shoot me cloud seen on thermals....cheers ute.

[MIGleader]

TOW missles were put on wheeled vehicles, and they performed very well in iraq.

[rommel]

the effective doesn't change that is on Wheeled carriers or tracked carriers, but instead, that's is limit of the carrier taht change and dramatically. On the tracked carriers, that can really go anywhere, you don't have a risk to stay blocked in soft mud or sand, well, at least, as not easily as a wheeled, the wheeled vehicule also got the disadvantage to got tires. Tires are very vulnerable to damage from gunfire, battlefield debris, and sharp rocks. In the 30 January 1991 battle for Khafji, the first coalition attack was stopped when Iraqi small arms fire flattened the tires of the Saudi wheeled armor. Four weeks later, the Marine assault on Kuwait Airport was also brought to a halt when the tires of several LAV-25s were shredded as a result of running over artillery fragments.More recently, the Stryker company (13 or 14 Vehicules) that participated in Millennium Challenge 2002 had to replace 13 tires during the 96-hour NTC rotation! How many more tires would have required replacement if the OPFOR had been shooting bullets instead of MILES lasers? "Run-flat" tires are not a solution - if you have to limp into a fight, you might not be able to crawl out! Tracks don't have to be changed after every battle.
Also, wheeled vehicles require the use of snow chains in order to operate effectively in snow. This is another group of items for which stowage space is required, and the time needed for installation and removal of snow chains can potentially slow the pace of winter operations.Tracked vehicles can easily climb over automobiles and other obstacles that cannot be surmounted by wheeled armor. This capability is very useful in any scenario, and its lack can result in mission failure.The only advantage of a wheeled vehicule is the maintenance, more easy and less costy.

[Obcession]

Shouldn't another advantage of the wheeled vehicle be it's faster roadspeed than a tracked vehicle?

[Vanguard1688]

And cheaper to operate and transport.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Also, tank threads tend to wear out a lot. You'd have to replace the threads every few hundred miles. Not only is it a hassle, but also a waste of money to have to replace the threads. Some tanks, like the T-72, can operate on roads without their threads, using just its wheels.

[MIGleader]

just make heavy rubber tires that are covered by armkor plates and they'll be easier to protect. for more mobile, light attack units such as the pla's rapid reaction forces, a wheeled vihicle is perfect. in a more difficult terrain with armor troops, tracks are better. thats not neccaserily tanks. infantry fighting vehicles and other have tracks, and will be the armor of the future.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

just make heavy rubber tires that are covered by armkor plates and they'll be easier to protect. for more mobile, light attack units such as the pla's rapid reaction forces, a wheeled vihicle is perfect. in a more difficult terrain with armor troops, tracks are better. thats not neccaserily tanks. infantry fighting vehicles and other have tracks, and will be the armor of the future.

I think tanks will be used in the future. Remember, tanks don't have to have threads. You can have wheeled tanks. IFVs just don't have the firepower to replace tanks.

[MIGleader]

tanks will have their uses in ther future. but like the battle ship, the big guns and armor will eventually be obsolete.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

In my opinion, in the future, there will only be a need for a single vehicle. It will have all the capabilties of modern day tanks, apcs, ifvs, and sp artillery rolled into one. It could use an electromagnetic rail gun that has a range of 200km+, meeting anti-tank and artillery needs. It could have missiles to further destroy enemy vehicles. It will also carry infantry and have gun ports in order to destroy enemy infantry, as well as to deploy its own infantry to hold ground. It will also have all terrain capability.

[sino52C]

that vehicle would be mad expensive, few countries would have enough money to adopt it.

[sumdud]

IFVs are like downgraded tanks. Their armor are also weaker.

We haven't seen wheeled tanks, though.
The type 89 also has a variant for launching HJ-8.
Tracks are for heavy duty, while wheels are for economy.

And if you are fighting on a frontline, then wheeled ATGM carriers should be effective. They can run to the battlefield, and then launch standoff missiles.

As for the Arabian car, I don't really like it.

[M1Tanker]

Back or topic and slightly off topic...

Wheeled vehicles with a nuclear bazooka/recoilless rifle (from the 1960s and 1970s):

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/nuclear-davycrokett-bg.jpg

http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/images/davy_crockett_large.jpg

Not quite an ATGM, but with a nuke who needs to be accurate?

Tanky

[chinawhite]

ahh. the Davy Crockett.

now thats fire support. the problem was the crew wouldn't survive to old age.

Davy Crockett rocket launcher
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Lineage/M-F/images/c11f5.jpg


little bit of info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

[MIGleader]

tracks are a cold war/panzer division thing. they don't allow the vehicle to move very fast. wheels seem to be the way of the future.

[rommel]

tracks are a cold war/panzer division thing. they don't allow the vehicle to move very fast. wheels seem to be the way of the future.

you cannot move fast with tracks, but at least, you can go anywhere at anytime, tracks can even be use like a propeller for amphibious vehicule,wheels don't allow move on soft sand and snow and are easy to flat.

[MadMax]

most wheeled armored vehicles alow the driver to change the tire pressure for better traction on sand, snow,mud ext. and the tires can be filled with a matirial that will fill bullet and fragment holes and the tire pressure will reinflate them to the pressure you were at before

[Obcession]

I wish I had that on my car...

So what's the material called? It seems like a very workable idea.

[ger_mark]

I wish I had that on my car...

So what's the material called? It seems like a very workable idea.

:confused:
i even got that on my bike

[Obcession]

You do?! My bike has to be patched up manually everytime it leaks...

[sino52C]

you can also pack some troops in IFV for protection against other ATGMS.

[MadMax]

you can buy it at most auto excesories stores its called goo or somthing like that

[rommel]

most wheeled armored vehicles alow the driver to change the tire pressure for better traction on sand, snow,mud ext. and the tires can be filled with a matirial that will fill bullet and fragment holes and the tire pressure will reinflate them to the pressure you were at before

well, i know that, we use those "Run-flat" tires on our LAV-III (original version of the LAV-25) it's not efficient, i'm honest. And i was not talking about traction on sand, snow, mud but pression distribute by the wheel, tracks distribute a vehicle's weight evenly over the surface. This enables deep, soft sand to be traversed with ease, in areas that a wheeled vehicle would find impassable. With tires, the weight "stay" at the same place, so if the front of your armored vehicule is heavier for exemple, they'll be more pression on the front wheel.

(Picutre) With a tow cable attached to its front end, an eight-wheeled USMC LAV-25 is pulled from the Croatian mud where it had been hopelessly mired. Note the nose up angle, indicating that each pair of tires has dug deeper into the mud than the preceding pair. And BTW, you need chains to drive on snows. And wheeled vehicule cannot climb obstacle, that's a BIG problem.

[MadMax]

wieght distrabution is very important for weeled vehicles compared to tracks and the maximum load is also more limited the stryker with slat armor added is overloading its tires and blow outs happen often in iraq where a tracked vehicle can be loaded unevenly and can handle a much heavier load so in this respect tracks are superior
by runflat you mean that you run on a flat tire cause i was saying that you put a matirel in the tire the same way you would inflate it and when a puncture happens the flow of air rushing out sucks it in the hole and filles it up theen any tire pressure you lost can be rgain with the central tire pressure control

[MadMax]

watch this movie of a BTR 90 and youll see it climbing some good sized obstacals the tires on the BTR 90 are almost twice the size of the lav so it has an advantage http://www.rusarm.ru/p_prod/army/btr_90.htm

[rommel]

watch this movie of a BTR 90 and youll see it climbing some good sized obstacals the tires on the BTR 90 are almost twice the size of the lav so it has an advantage http://www.rusarm.ru/p_prod/army/btr_90.htm

can you give me the exact size of the BTR-90 tires ??

[MadMax]

i may have exagerated the size a little but i know they are larger then the lav ill check on that
btw how much dose the lav wiegh cause the BTR 90 is 21 tons

[MadMax]

heres a good article it dosent give tire size but it gives the clearence
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/armored_vehicles/btr-90.htm

[MIGleader]

in the future, the world will primarily use wheels, while special operations will involve tracks. maybe they'll figure out how to cheaply make tracks too.

[MadMax]

i forgot to mention that wheels are more resistent to mines then tracks usally when a tracked vehicles goes over a mine it will blow the track off and now the vehicles is usless wheels will just keep rolling

[rommel]

i may have exagerated the size a little but i know they are larger then the lav ill check on that
btw how much dose the lav wiegh cause the BTR 90 is 21 tons

Canadian LAV-III 16,9 tons
US LAV-25 12,802 tons
MOWAG Pirahna 16,5 tons


I have a few question for you, did you served in the military ?? In the infantry ?? I'm presently in the Canadian Reserve Infantry, during multiples exercises, I ride the LAV-III and the M113A3 APC To be honest, the LAV-III is slower in cross-country that the M113A3 but it's faster on road. But our LAV-III cannot go over obstacle that are 80cm high. But for the M113A3, he can even cross a 1,1m brick wall.

[MadMax]

no i dont have any military expieriance im just saying from my off roading expierince biger tires are an advantage for going over obstacles
the tires on the LAV look really small compared to the BTR 90 in my opinion
i think the best option is to have a unit with a mix of wheeled and tracked vehicles so its ready for any terain

[rommel]

no i dont have any military expieriance im just saying from my off roading expierince biger tires are an advantage for going over obstacles
the tires on the LAV look really small compared to the BTR 90 in my opinion
i think the best option is to have a unit with a mix of wheeled and tracked vehicles so its ready for any terain


that's our tire size 325R16

[BKulan]

wouldn't half tracks be effective?

[rommel]

wouldn't half tracks be effective?

halftacks are very effective but they are very complexe to make and to maintain and lot's more than a tracked only or wheeled only vehicule

[Vanguard1688]

Interesting prototype
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/659/9c7ww.jpghttp://img389.imageshack.us/img389/659/9c7ww.jpg

[rommel]

in this case, go look for the old US M106 Ontos, that's a strange piece of equipement but maybe useful ... But you know what, recoiless AT-Gun are not very effective...