New pices from Chinese special forces

[Red Guard]

]http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/upload/71/5168/20051128/1356/271382/271383.jpg
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[Red Guard]

http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/upload/71/5168/20051128/1356/271382/271387.jpg
http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/upload/71/5168/20051128/1356/271382/271388.jpg
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[Wingman]

Whoa... that looks like a wicked sniper rifle mounted on that ATV
What rifle is that?

[Baibar of Jalat]

Heres a couple of questions i want to know more about thanks.
What type of training exercise ar these Chinese special forces simulating?

How many special forces personal are there in the PLA if numbers ar available, if not known can u speculate about how many of these units china army needs to be effective?

[vincelee]

my guess is that the rifile is the AMR-2. It could also be the AMR-1, since the guy's body is blocking the receiver.

PS, AMR: Anti Material Rifle.

[New2u]

who are these guy, i know they are Chinese special forces, but dont they got like a name or something. Just look at the bage. The first one i've seen manytimes before but there are other bages too. Are they like a a divison, because i heard that the 38th special forces group is preety good.

[MIGleader]

about time we see some body armor...
man those bj2020s look pretty powerful. i definitly would want to be in the way of one full of chinese spec ops.

but why are there megaphones on some bj2020s?
and what are those ATVs? sinodefence doesnt even have em on record.

[RavenWing278]

maybe its just me but i dont reckon those PASGT style helmets look good on those soldiers..i know helmets arnt suppose to look good but when they wear it they look lop-sided , i dunno maybe those helmets are just a size to big..
and then there are those pics with chinese soldiers standing to attention, it looks like thier chin straps would slip over their chins..=)

[Red Guard]

maybe its just me but i dont reckon those PASGT style helmets look good on those soldiers..i know helmets arnt suppose to look good but when they wear it they look lop-sided , i dunno maybe those helmets are just a size to big..
and then there are those pics with chinese soldiers standing to attention, it looks like thier chin straps would slip over their chins..=)

PLA 02 helmet is in only one size, that's why some of the helmet looks too big, because their head is too small.

[Dongfeng]

about time we see some body armor...
man those bj2020s look pretty powerful. i definitly would want to be in the way of one full of chinese spec ops.

but why are there megaphones on some bj2020s?
and what are those ATVs? sinodefence doesnt even have em on record.

First, they are not megaphones. They are anti-tank missile launchers, possibly HJ-73C. I have a photo where the box-shape protection shields were removed: see here (http://www.sinodefence.com/army/transport/bj20206.asp)

As to those ATV, I was going to put it but there is not much to say. They are quad bikes which you can see everywhere. Nothing really special but a very good idea for special forces.

I am currently working on the special forces sections and it should be ready pretty soon.

[Mao23]

just asking u guys but why do special forces use quad bikes. i know they are fast but don't they provide very little protection. and why do they put their packs on the front of the vehicle. won't they obstruct view or anything or unbalance the vehcile?? sry if i don't know much.

[PiSigma]

the reason (i think) for quad bikes is for mobility and speed. quad bikes if used well can travel in almost all terran. it can go up/down hill very easily. provides a lot of power for its size. each quad bike can carry two people. notice there are two packs in the front??? so the packs can balance each other... the suspension in quad bikes are often set so that weight don't need to be balanced (BIG suspensions). the packs on the bikes are low enough that it won't obstruct view.. it's too low.

[ahho]

Also this could be use for fast deployment for them. It is much smaller that jeep and FAV and also you can fit more in a ship and plane. The other point that is good is that you can have speed and an AT punch pack into that small vehicle.

What i think is that these things are to land first to annoy the enemy than jeeps and armoour vehicle

[Longaxe]

Minigun

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8592/2005713483128618jq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

'Special forces'

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4523/111662ov.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

23mm

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1938/post1111262221625in.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[PanAsian]

The pic of the mini gun is very poor quality, is it for real? Does anyone have further information on such a weapon in the PLA inventory?

[sumdud]

The vehicle w/ the 25mm AAA mounted on top: is that the light weight Land Warrior jeep due to replace the BJs?
I don't really get the idea of the weapons stand on the ATV. You can't shoot the weapon while on the move. And the time needed to put the weapon on the stand is longer than to use it when on the ground, and since the vehicle is so light, the shock from the weapon, if any, is also damaging.
Maybe the weapon can stand there on the move? :confused:

The minigun looks odd to me. And where will the ejected cases go? I hope there's a bag. I can't imagine driving with bullet cases hitting my head every instant.

Motorcycles!!! ^^
I prefer these over ATVs, but I guess that since China is outlawing motorcycles, ATVs are replacing them in the military?

[Mr_C]

THe minigun looks like maybe its electronically controlled.. (but then again i maybe wrong) because that green box next to gun looks like it contains some sort of electronics

[FriedRiceNSpice]

I have 2 questions-

1) Why do special forces need anti-aircraft guns? Aren't they supposed to be undetectable?

2) Wouldn't the use of such noisy vehicles compromise the element of surprise? Aren't special forces supposed to be relatively invisible?

[The_Zergling]

I think it depends on what the meaning of Special Forces actually means... if it means something out of "Ghost Recon" then I would also have doubts about the usefulness about noisy anti-aircraft guns....

But I would like to believe that Special Forces means troops that are trained to fulfill a certain goal, that goal may be to suppress enemy aircraft, or to silently infiltrate an enemy building, or to establish vital communications etc...

[FriedRiceNSpice]

I think it depends on what the meaning of Special Forces actually means... if it means something out of "Ghost Recon" then I would also have doubts about the usefulness about noisy anti-aircraft guns....

But I would like to believe that Special Forces means troops that are trained to fulfill a certain goal, that goal may be to suppress enemy aircraft, or to silently infiltrate an enemy building, or to establish vital communications etc...

Aren't troops used to supress enemy aircraft usually considered anti-aircraft troops or air defense troops?

[The_Zergling]

Yes I would think so too...

I just think the term "Special Forces" doesn't necessarily mean "Stealth Forces"

But I concede. I picked a few really bad examples.

[sumdud]

But how will SOF work without stealth?
SOF are in small groups, so if they are detected, they will only get slaughtered. I doubt SOF will work w/o stealth.

[rommel]

Well, I think that most of you have a wrong image of the Special Force. Special Force are not big and physically dominant killer. This is the image that the SF have since the VietNam. In our day, most of you wouldn't be able to recognize a SF soldier if you encounter one.

The SF soldier are very versatile, in most NATO country, the SF soldier need to talk at least 3 language. Why, because you don't just have some combat operation, you also have Pyscological Warfare to accomplish, peacekeeping ,Civilian Affair mission and Humanitarian mission.

So, the stealth and the AA gun are for different use. In the 91 Gulf War, British SAS use Land Rover (that's noisy !) to make hit and run on Iraqi Scud launch base. The stealth is not really necessary in thoses case because most of the time, when you can hear a 4x4, you can see it too. You use the speed to caught the ennemy by surprise. We are not in a hostage rescue situation...

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The Classic image one gets when you say "Special Forces" Is a guy dressed all in black Who is either a One man army or a Swat Team type, Although HRT is still done by SF. SF does alot more then that.
Although it does not seem to fit a AA type gun can be alot of use to SF during a breaking engagement. in the Gulf war British SAS, AU SAS and US Army delta force used M82A1's, M2's and air strikes to kill Scuds. in Somalia and in Iraq Hummers are fitted out with M2's and MK19 40-mm grenade lunchers because the roof top position it great to engage "technicals" and Infantry when working security. The US equivalent of a FAV is also fitted out with such weapons for the same reason. and no current issue ground military vehicle is stealthy.

[In4ser]

Some pics i stole from China-Defense: http://www.china-defense.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4773&st=0

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9280/chengdumr2004321393262kk.th.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3350/post1110834728321aa.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9575/post1110871975979gl.jpg

[warman]

Its like looking at copies of US weapons, equipment and uniforms???

[backwindow]

Its like looking at copies of US weapons, equipment and uniforms???

You don't need to put those in every tread.

[PrOeLiTeZ]

Its like looking at copies of US weapons, equipment and uniforms???
since when does US use Type 95 rifles??? That is China domestic rifle not copied from US...

[kw64]

Only the first two photos from the top post appeared to be special force soldiers to me. Sodiers from the rest of the photos from Red Guard look like regulars thus the arm badge.

[maozedong]

there are so many kind of special forces in PLA and armed police force, in my view,those photos from Red Gard are Rapid reaction force of PLAAF Airborne troops.
they may called special force.

[maozedong]

http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/p/2006-11-14/U1335P27T1D411918F3DT20061114071628.jpg http://www.sinaimg.cn/jc/p/2007-11-01/U1335P27T1D470007F3DT20071101080819.jpg

http://www.sinaimg.cn/jc/p/2007-11-01/U1335P27T1D470003F3DT20071101081353.jpg
this one is PLA navy special force.

http://mil.eastday.com/m/20071101/images/01113456.jpg

http://mil.eastday.com/m/20071101/images/01113458.jpg

Following is the PLA special forces armband of the seven military regions:

http://www.sinaimg.cn/jc/p/2007-11-01/U1335P27T1D470004F3DT20071101081437.jpg
Shenyang Military Region "Northeast Tiger", Beijing Military Region "Oriental Excalibur"

http://www.sinaimg.cn/jc/p/2007-11-01/U1335P27T1D470004F26DT20071101081437.jpg
Chengdu Military Region "Southwest Falcon",the last is airborne troops "blue sky sword"

http://www.sinaimg.cn/jc/p/2007-11-01/U1335P27T1D470004F318DT20071101081437.jpg
Lanzhou Military Region "Tiger Night"; Jinan Military Region "Eagle"

http://www.sinaimg.cn/jc/p/2007-11-01/U1335P27T1D470004F319DT20071101081437.jpg
Nanjing Military Region "dragon", Guangzhou Military Region "Southland sword"

[gizhou]

And the reasons they are Special Forces are? Motorcycle side cars were phased out in the Second World War and Quads could be used by anybody. If you tried toi use one operationally you would quickly find their limitations. The turreted minigun is a joke as it is missing amongst other things (if it was real) its power and feed supplies let alone the harmonics on its mount due to its its recoil and spinning barrels. Armed 4x4s were trialled by the US Army in the 1980s and were found wanting - especially in regards to protection for the crew against all manner of threats including the elements and the rocket launchers are a joke too. The blast from the rockets would incinerate the crews and severley damage if not disable the vehicle on the first shot.

[ABC78]

For those of you that are interested check out this website it may answer your questions about these pics.

http://www.china-defense.com/pla/lmr/lmr-1.html

Hope it helps

[gizhou]

Pure conjecture. English translations of Chinese articles, including ones I have done, describe it as a trials unit only. It lacks any sort of sustainability or protection and was not described in any Chinese article I have read/translated as a special forces unit - only as a light mechanised airborne unit. Airborne are not special forces in the PLA. It all reminds me of the US Army's 9th light infantry division from the 70s and 80s, or if you are oold er the old TV series Rat Patrol. One rifle round into the driver is all that is required to knock these vehicles out.

[Scratch]

Hm, on the light vehicle subject.
In the past one important capability of SOFs in the field was mobility. Since they had to operate covertly and with little support, being light and mobile was more important than protection.
Those light jeeps were not meant to fight regular army units. They're rather scouting vehicles with MMG / HMG for self protection.
And hitting a driver in a jeep moving at 30-50km/h, who is perhaps maneuvering, is protected by his mates laying down suppresive fire from .308 and / or .50 weapons and that all during night isn't easy at all.
Same for the quads. There are scenarios where you have to cover greater areas to scout. A jeep is alredy too heavy to move around, but a cross country motor cycle is too light to carry the stuff.

[gizhou]

I'll tell you now, if a vehicle is going 30-50km/hr cross country the guys innside are strapped in tight. I don't wish to be rude but have you actually been off roading, night ops etc. Firing from a moving vehicle and a person lying down is a waste of ammunition and more dangerous to the vehicle and crew than to anything you are aiming at. Quads are great but really are only good for scouting and light resupply, as they can be fitted with a really good little trailer. Quads are easily loaded off balance.

The big factor is that the unit, at best is a couple of companies strong, is moved by helicopter so it restricts the number that can be deployed at once. They are airborne personnel by the way not SOF. No tanks or APCs as written in the the other article that is refered to in the thread. This info is taken from more than one reliable Chinese language source.

[Scratch]

Well, my reply here was not specificly directed at this experimental unit, but more generally at the use of light vehicles for SpecOps.
Firing from a moving vehicle in rough terrain is of course anything but accurate. However, if that supressive fire can prevent someone in the bushes from taking accurate shots at you, I don't think it's a waste of ammo.

[chakos]

Quads are great but really are only good for scouting and light resupply, as they can be fitted with a really good little trailer. Quads are easily loaded off balance.

Have a look at photos from Afghanistan of Aussie and Brit Specfor troops and youll find just how usefull quads and light 4x4's really are. For long range recce, fast attack and light transport duties they are unsurpassed.

You need to understand that 4X4's and quads are used slightly differently in western forces. You dont fight from a quad. They are basically a recce vehicle. There are pics of the Chinese using them as fighting platforms but they are using stand off weapons. They are not designed to get up close and dirty.

A gunned up 4X4 on the other hand can and does get used for fast attack work. An SAS manned section of 2 or 4 4X4's bristling with machine guns (I think the 25mm cannon aint the most usefull from a weight/benefit perspective) would give most leg infantry units caught in the open a very bad mauling.

They are not designed to attack fortified positions or trenchlines. In the hands of professionals who know how to use them in the correct situation such vehicles are extremelly effective

[gizhou]

Have a look at photos from Afghanistan of Aussie and Brit Specfor troops and youll find just how usefull quads and light 4x4's really are. For long range recce, fast attack and light transport duties they are unsurpassed.

You need to understand that 4X4's and quads are used slightly differently in western forces. You dont fight from a quad. They are basically a recce vehicle. There are pics of the Chinese using them as fighting platforms but they are using stand off weapons. They are not designed to get up close and dirty.

A gunned up 4X4 on the other hand can and does get used for fast attack work. An SAS manned section of 2 or 4 4X4's bristling with machine guns (I think the 25mm cannon aint the most usefull from a weight/benefit perspective) would give most leg infantry units caught in the open a very bad mauling.

They are not designed to attack fortified positions or trenchlines. In the hands of professionals who know how to use them in the correct situation such vehicles are extremelly effective

You really have NFI:rofl:

[chakos]

Well explain to me where i am wrong rather than make such a random statement without backing it up

[gizhou]

We basically agree on the quads. The 12.7 anti-materiel rifle and PF-98 rocket launcher are for show. Fire either weapon and you can write that driver off. Where is the spare ammunition and the vehicle would be off balance once it was mounted and got moving. These vehicles are not real big. The PLA soldiers are not carrying a lot of kit with them so the photos are all PR. See what Western soldiers carry when deploying and you will see what I mean.

As foir Afghanistan, the Brits are getting up-armoured vehicles and the Australians use 6x6 vehicles, and neither force used light 4x4 vehicles as you can't carry enough equipment for extended patrols and survival gear. I have actually been in the same type of bush and terrain (not location) where these type of generally operate and hit and run ops are not their forte. To many bastards with assault rifles ruin their day.

As for not understanding the PLA go to the Jamestown Organisation's China Brief, look up Martin Andrew, and get back to me. As for light 4x4 machine gun gun 'jeeps' shooting up leg infantry, I don't believe you will see modern well trained infantry too concerned. They would disperse, lie down and quietly and confidently return fire. If the 4x4s stop to hit the target they would be defeated. Hit and run is good for quick close ambushing but infantry in the open are a different matter.

[King_Comm]

As foir Afghanistan, the Brits are getting up-armoured vehicles and the Australians use 6x6 vehicles, and neither force used light 4x4 vehicles as you can't carry enough equipment for extended patrols and survival gear. I have actually been in the same type of bush and terrain (not location) where these type of generally operate and hit and run ops are not their forte. To many bastards with assault rifles ruin their day.
SAS of both Australia and UK use modified Land rover 110's (e.g. the pink panther) for long range reconnaissance other special duties, they seldom "hit" their enemies unless they are detected and engaged.

http://www.twenot.nl/Specials/Landrover/Landrover%20SAS%207.jpg
http://www.lro.com/images/article_midimages/LRO-SAS-023.jpg
http://www.lro.com/images/article_midimages/LRO-SAS-007.jpg

I would assume the same would apply to PLA's special forces, unlike in Hollywood movies, special forces in real life do very little killing, their primary duty is intelligence gathering, sabotage, and from time to time eliminating very specific target, they do not need a lot of firepower or protection, and excessive armour and armament can become burdens.

[gizhou]

SAS of both Australia and UK use modified Land rover 110's (e.g. the pink panther) for long range reconnaissance other special duties, they seldom "hit" their enemies unless they are detected and engaged.

http://www.twenot.nl/Specials/Landrover/Landrover%20SAS%207.jpg
http://www.lro.com/images/article_midimages/LRO-SAS-023.jpg
http://www.lro.com/images/article_midimages/LRO-SAS-007.jpg

I would assume the same would apply to PLA's special forces, unlike in Hollywood movies, special forces in real life do very little killing, their primary duty is intelligence gathering, sabotage, and from time to time eliminating very specific target, they do not need a lot of firepower or protection, and excessive armour and armament can become burdens.

Gee I guess all those specially modified Perentie 6 x 6 long range patrol vehicles that were built in Australia must be sitting gathering dust. Of course using a commercial webiste photo of a Brtish short wheel based Land Rover which haven't been in Australian service for decades reveals your knowledge of the subject.:p:nana:

gizhou, We've been reading your post. You need to read the forum rules and post in a more respectful manner.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/announcements/forum-rules-things-remember-before-posting-important-please-read-20.html

bd popye super moderator

[King_Comm]

Gee I guess all those specially modified Perentie 6 x 6 long range patrol vehicles that were built in Australia must be sitting gathering dust. Of course using a commercial webiste photo of a Brtish short wheel based Land Rover which haven't been in Australian service for decades reveals your knowledge of the subject.:p:nana:
Where did I say that 6x6 vehicles weren't used? And since I have mentioned the British SAS, what's wrong with showing the picture of the pink panther? the pictures were intended to illustrate my point of 4x4's in special forces.

And here are a few pictures of Australians and their 4x4 land rovers. The first two were taken in Afghanistan.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/eat_pork/AussieTroopsInAfghanistan.jpg
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/17/SASR_Afghans.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/eat_pork/JPAU08MAY03DH17-1.jpg

[simonov]

Can you named the Chinese name for every MR unit. thx

[batmannow]

:)great info....long live great china:)