PLA training

[bd popeye]

What sort of training do the two year conscripts of the PLA, PLAAF and PLAN recieve?? Being a former US military member(USN) for 20 years and having a son on active duty in the USN for the last 7.5 years I am keenly aware of what sort of training the USN has. I have on several ocassions asked questions about the training in the PLAN. I still am waiting for an answer. Recently I posted this in the PLAN sub thread.

Honestly I'm skeptical of any service that uses conscripts for their main force. Not because of the quality of the conscript but the amount of time they spend in service. Usally 2 years. Too little time. You can't possibly train anyone on modern day hi-tech equipmnet in such a short period of time. My son is a sonar tech(surface). He spent 20 months in school learning his feild as part of his USN training. Does anyone in this forum have any first hand knowledge about how the PLAN trains it's sub sailors? How many of the sub sailors are carreer professionals? I would love to know.


So could someone tell me or post links in English besides sinodefence.com about the training the PLA recieves.

I've read this forums threads.

I really don't understand how the PLA can become profecient with it's oncomming "hi-tech" weaponary with two year concripts. It takes time to train people how to profencently operate this sort of equipment.

And just what percentage of the PLA are career NCO's? I know the US armed forces are about 50% career people. Career professionals in other words that know their jobs.

I am not trying to start a flame war or provoke the old "my service is better than your service" argument. I just want to know this..What sort of training do the conscripts of the PLA recieve? What % of the PLA is career NCO's? Thanks!

[tphuang]

It really depends. Similar to US, China uses a volunteer based system. There are mainly two types of soldiers:
1. Went into it to become a soldier for life.
2. Went into it for a few years, because pla helps those who serve in the army to get jobs.

My personal opinion is that the education surrounding some of the pla soldiers is not too high, that's probably why the president Hu is echoing filling the pla ranks with more educated officers.

[Red Guard]

well, more and more sailors in the navy are NCOs now, since ship stuff is more difficult to handle than army rifle. i don't know the percentage, but it's growing. i don't know about US, but navy calls people from coast, the lots of the future sailors know about the sea and ships before they go to the navy. don't know more, not familiar with the navy, and it is

NATIONAL SECERET!!!!!

[UCSDAE]

quiet a few children of my parent's friends were conscripted. Conscripts mainly goes to the army as infantry. Positions that required specialized traininng are usually for those who are selected based on education and other factors, in which case your term of service will be extended whether you like it or not. As far as I know, cadets from military academies are the primary candidates for highly technical post...

[darth sidious]

Conscripts do not work well in navy the japs tried this in WWII in the 50s and early 60s a small number of the PLAN is very skilled mainly the defected KMT mainly those that got training in britian, us, germany. hence the technical training emphise in the 50s later on as they retired or were purged thing went down. in the early when DONG rose to power the ond drial were instaled agin

lack of experiance demonstrated in that the LUDA calss destoryer designed in the 60s dont even have Mess halls

[bd popeye]

Thanks for the info here and in the FAQ thread.:)

I was really skeptical about the operational ablity of the PLAN with conscripts. But Darth answerd that question in the other thread. You just can't put a conscript on a ship. They have to be volunteers. Navies worldwide found that out many years ago. The main consideration is you have to want to go to sea.Another has to be training. As far as any navy is concerned there are just to many technical jobs that take a long time to learn to use conscripts in those positions.

So what about the PLAAF? Do they have conscripts also?

[ahho]

Thanks for the info here and in the FAQ thread.:)

I was really skeptical about the operational ablity of the PLAN with conscripts. But Darth answerd that question in the other thread. You just can't put a conscript on a ship. They have to be volunteers. Navies worldwide found that out many years ago. The main consideration is you have to want to go to sea.Another has to be training. As far as any navy is concerned there are just to many technical jobs that take a long time to learn to use conscripts in those positions.

So what about the PLAAF? Do they have conscripts also?

Hmm well i dunno much about this, but considering that the air force is kind of "special" and highly technical, i don't think they'll use conscript. You don't wan't the unskilled to touch expensive hardware.

[Red Guard]

one thing people have to understand is. this is not like in those US movies about Soviet Union, like people are drafted, unwilling to go to the military. in china, people want to go to the military, even the law states chinese military force personnels are selected on both conscription and volunteering, yet, i believe 99% of the people are volunteering. there are always over numbered people want to go to the military every single year, and people have to bribe the officers to get their sons into the military. so.....conscription is not an "exact" term for today's chinese military.
if i am understanding your question probably.

edited
but, as people are saying, now i consider more and more people with high education are kinda "conscripted" as such people are not willing to go to the military, but the force still requires such personnel, so.....
in china, local university students could be as reserves (not like army reserves) officer cadidates, training lightly during school years, and military would pay their tutition, as they will join the service after graduation for at least 7 years( not sure, could be even longer). this way, the military keeps a number of high educated people in the military.
another way is the military increased the salary for NCOs, one soldier (sailor) may join the service with a low education, but after 2 years in the service, they have a basic military training, they will be promoted later on, as the navy may want them to stay.

[jatt]

I thought their were no conscripts in the PLA these days?:confused:

[coolstorm]

i dun think there are conscripts in the pla because china just got too many people. i heard only one person is chosen out of any 10 candidates. so, it's actually pretty hard to make it to the military even for volunteers.

[DayDreamer]

One key prbm is tha lots of less educated guys want a job as a temporary conscript and get some qualification of military experience for their future career convenience. Of course conscripts are proved impotent in high-tech troops, that's a worldwide issue.:nono:

[Gollevainen]

Of course conscripts are proved impotent in high-tech troops, that's a worldwide issue.

I've said this many times, but i quess I gotta do it one more time....Conscripts aren't anyway inferior to enlisted service mens. Coscription system doesen't automaticly mean the standart of the soldiers are somewhat lower. Like in chinese case, when the conscription time is two years, it's only down how to use that time. You can mess it up in profesional army as well, it's all down to the intensive level of the training. Even one year or half year conscription can do miracles if you use all the time to existing training. The refresment training is the tool to keep up the level of professionalism...

[adeptitus]

Here's some info on PLAN training for the Kilo subs:

http://www.afcea.org/signal/articles/anmviewer.asp?a=93&z=22

"Realizing the training challenge for the Chinese crews, Russia, when negotiating the deal in 1994, proposed 18 months of training, a realistic simulator and associated base support infrastructure. In 1995, China actually funded one year of training for the first 877 crew in St. Petersburg, Russia, and a shorter training period for the second crew at the submarine base in Xiangshan.
<snip>
The 877s were followed in 1997 and 1998 by two of the latest 636 Kilos that had many of the same combat systems as 877, but the troublesome Type 2D-42 diesel generators were replaced by more complex turbocharged Type 4-2AA-42M diesel generators rated at 1,500 kilowatts each. Instead of 18 months of training for 636 submarines that Iran and India had, China reduced training to nine months. Only the officers for the two 636 crews were trained in St. Petersburg in 1997. The enlisted men were trained at the Xiangshan home port. The Chinese are blamed for the battery problems of Kilos, but other customers such as Iran and India have had similar problems. Increased reliability is achieved with batteries made in India and Britain."

=====

As for conscripts, like Gollevainen said, you could train conscripts well, or train volunteers badly. For an example, Taiwan has a conscripted force and its navy have had a lot of problems before. To remedy this situation they're very careful with integrating new systems now. Prior to accepting the Kidd class destroyer, 600 ROCN support crew (mechanics/etc) was sent to the US 18 months ahead. The training was so tough one sailor even comitted suicide from the stress:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2005/12/19/2003285050

Sailors proud to bring home Kidd-class destroyers
NATION'S DEFENSE: At a ceremony on Saturday, sailors involved in preparing the ships for duty spoke enthusiastically of their time in the US -- despite the hard work
By Rich Chang
STAFF REPORTER
Monday, Dec 19, 2005,Page 3

"I am very proud I spent my compulsory military service in a foreign country and to have worked for the delivery of the navy's most capable vessels," said a sailor from the naval team in charge of the delivery of four Kidd-class destroyers from the US.

Over a period of 18 months, a 600-member Taiwanese crew worked at a US shipyard in South Carolina in preparation for delivery of two of four Kidds -- now designated Keelung-class destroyers -- that Taiwan purchased from the US in 2001.

The four warships have required refurbishment and maintenance in the US before being delivered to Taiwan.

"I voluntarily prolonged my compulsory military term in order to join the delivery team. I am going to finish my military service, and I will have good memories about my naval life in the US," Lin Sin-jen (林新仁) told the Taipei Times at the commissioning ceremony for the two Kidd warships at the Keelung naval base on Saturday.

Lin said the delivery team had two major missions -- to refurbish the warships and learn to operate the vessels.

Taiwanese sailors hold up placards saying ``glory for the nation'' in Chinese in this photo taken on Oct. 29 when two decommissioned Kidd-class destroyers purchased by the government departed for Taiwan from Port Charleston, South Carolina.

"As a mechanic on the team, my job was to fix the warships, and as the US Navy merely offered some instructions, I would say most of the repairs were done by our team," Lin added.

"In order to bring forward the delivery [date] of the vessels, every day was a busy one for us, and we were happy when we had time off. We usually visited the downtown area near the shipyard when we had one day off, but the navy also arranged for us to take trips to Niagara Falls and Disneyland in Orlando," Lin added.

"The most exciting [trips] were when the navy took us to professional hockey games and Major League Baseball games," Lin said.

Lin added that most of the sailors had missed home, but were able to call their families in Taiwan, and ate Chinese food to ease some of the homesickness.

Another soldier, Chen Chun-hung (陳俊宏) told the Taipei Times about the naval training they received in the US.

"We underwent serious training by the US Navy to operate the warships. Because most of the team did not speak English and were unfamiliar with a number of the training courses, we felt a lot of pressure at the beginning, but things gradually got better," Chen said.

During the training, the navy sent back a small number of sailors who were unable to meet the requirements.

However, a tragedy occurred during the very complicated and stressful delivery work. One sailor, Wu Chin-chung (吳進忠), hanged himself aboard one of the destroyers in January. He left an e-mail to his family complaining about his extremely heavy workload, long working hours and his superiors' frequent criticisms.

Naval officials said Wu's case was an exception.

A squadron commander of the Kidd-class destroyer fleet, Rear Admiral Pu Che-chun (蒲澤春), who was in charge of the evaluation and delivery of the destroyers, told reporters that the warships had become rusty after 18 years of service the US Navy, after which they were mothballed and sat for six years, but that after an 18-month effort, the first two Kidd-class destroyers commissioned on Saturday looked like new vessels.

"Some US naval officials doubted that Taiwan's navy would be able to efficiently operate advanced warships such as the Kidd-class warships. After a number of tests by the US Navy, they gave Taiwan's navy a high evaluation," Pu said.

"Some said the delivery of the Kidd warships was a test of whether Taiwan's Navy was able to operate the US' most advanced AEGIS-equipped ships, and the US Navy should have a positive answer," Pu added.

Pu said the new vessels will significantly boost the navy's air defense and anti-submarine warfare capabilities, and also help raise joint-combat capabilities.

In a computerized simulation during the annual Han Kuang military exercises earlier this year, the two destroyers successfully attracting most of the enemy fire.

[Gollevainen]

As for conscripts, like Gollevainen said, you could train conscripts well, or train volunteers badly. For an example, Taiwan has a conscripted force and its navy have had a lot of problems before. To remedy this situation they're very careful with integrating new systems now. Prior to accepting the Kidd class destroyer, 600 ROCN support crew (mechanics/etc) was sent to the US 18 months ahead. The training was so tough one sailor even comitted suicide from the stress:

well finnish army send personel to Soviet union to train with them, everytime we purchased something nice form there...its a standard proceedure for many nations. Thougth those who were sended were profesionals and officers. But conscription works well in ground forces but has its limitations in navy and air force, and as im not familar with these fields service things, i cannot say much. Popeye has given good insigth as a former sailor.

[patriot]

PLA trainings were very tough focusing on single-soldiered combating ability. However lacked focusing on group as a whole. The training were of out of date and ancient compare to the trainings of the west