Sino-Vietnam war

[galbaldy]

Do you guys have pictures of the Sino-Vietnam war?

In particular, I'm looking for the photo of the soldier who died on a hill carrying a flag.

[T-U-P]

i remember we had a pic thread on the sino-vietnam war in the old forum (the ezboard one) im sure you can still search for it on google and find it. it's also in the military history section i beblieve. but since it's closed you cant post in it anymore.

[Mao23]

there are 2 pics of the war in sinodefense u know. one is at the type 56 assualt rifle page and the other is at the type 56 semi. not much but still.

[patriot]

Anyone know why we don't have better guns than the Vietnames? I mean we had the world's largest weaponry and supplied Vietnam for more than 10 years. But we are actually poorly equipped compared with the Vietnames. How could this be possible?

[Red Guard]

here you go bud.
many like this photo. i odn't...really prefer it that much. and people say the guy died, i don't think so either.....
and i put on extra for you too.

and to patriot.
so you say "we". but you don't sound really like a chinese chinese......
but anyway. the reason we had 'worse' weapons. was because that our method for war was different. our method at the time being people's warfare, and that's in the situation of 1/2 or more land were taken by the enemy, and lots of troops or militias are behind of the enemy lines. therefore, we need rifles that not wasting bullets, and make every single shot counts. that's why we equiped a 12 men squad with 8 type 56 semi rifles, which shoots pretty accurate, 2 type 56 auto rifle for squad leader and vice squad leader, and 1 machine gunner with 1 loader.
but in the jungle we found our firing rate low and couldn't see the enemy and shoot. with viet namese equiped chinese/russian made AK-47s, US made M16s, captured from either american troops or south viet namese army. and some old PPSH, even chinese made type 63 auto rifles.
after the war, actually, at the beginning of the war, the problem was discovered soon, and soldiers throw away 56 semi and picked up captured AK-47 as soon as possible. and all troops were issued 56 auto right after the war.

[patriot]

here you go bud.
many like this photo. i odn't...really prefer it that much. and people say the guy died, i don't think so either.....
and i put on extra for you too.

and to patriot.
so you say "we". but you don't sound really like a chinese chinese......
but anyway. the reason we had 'worse' weapons. was because that our method for war was different. our method at the time being people's warfare, and that's in the situation of 1/2 or more land were taken by the enemy, and lots of troops or militias are behind of the enemy lines. therefore, we need rifles that not wasting bullets, and make every single shot counts. that's why we equiped a 12 men squad with 8 type 56 semi rifles, which shoots pretty accurate, 2 type 56 auto rifle for squad leader and vice squad leader, and 1 machine gunner with 1 loader.
but in the jungle we found our firing rate low and couldn't see the enemy and shoot. with viet namese equiped chinese/russian made AK-47s, US made M16s, captured from either american troops or south viet namese army. and some old PPSH, even chinese made type 63 auto rifles.
after the war, actually, at the beginning of the war, the problem was discovered soon, and soldiers throw away 56 semi and picked up captured AK-47 as soon as possible. and all troops were issued 56 auto right after the war.

What do you mean i don't sound like Chinese? Chinese?
I don't get why people's war was still popular in China. We used that tactic like 40 years ago out of desperation when we were armed with bamboo sticks and wooden artillaries. In 1979, we should be a whole lot better.

[Red Guard]

i checked out of your info. so you are from texas. so i take you are not a chinese, and i was right. basicly, a chinese chinese (as i refer) would not talk like you do. and i find it strange that you still use "we", put yourself along with chinese chinese. i am not saying you are not chinese, or do not count as chinese. since myself is a canadian chinese, and i hate people don't put me together with chinese sometimes. i just feel strang when you use we.
anyway..................
in 1979, which chairman mao past away in 1976, and 3 years after that, we were in war. during chairman mao's time we believed either the soviets or the americans were going to attack us. so we prepared for whole nuclear war. and we believe after the nuclear war, our national defence will be gone, and all we are left is ourselves and the rifles in our hands. that's why people's warfare were very popular at the time. since we never thought we could beat up our "comrade and brother" and we would be the one to "invade" someone else.
we were powerful indeed. but we did not have the experience of full scale invasion at the time. that's the problem of PLA. all of our training before 1979 were how to protect us from the capitalists and the emperialists. after 1979 and until today, our training more and more changed to how we are goignt o invade others to protect the interests of motherland. for example now, taiwan. that's why the navy and marines are trained for, full scale invasion.

[patriot]

Looks like you don't know my background very well!!!!

I was born in China in the city of Xi'an. I lived there for almost 8 years. So don't take me as a non-Chinese. I moved to Germany( 3 month), Britain( 2 year) and had been to most of Europe europe for vacations. Then, I moved to the U.S(Texas) and stayed there ever since. I had been back to China for visits many times in about every two years.

[sumdud]

Next time, post this in the introduction thread..........

[simonov]

Is it true that PLA only send the second class of troops during the 1979 war?
What artilery tactics they deploy?
What i confuse is VN had BM-21 Grad but why they never use it?

[vincelee]

I believe the crack divisions were stationed up north in case of a Soviet thrust.

as for artillery....stationary fire support I suppose (indirect). It's not like they had mobile arty in that time.

[Red Guard]

i think the class A and class B troops theory came after the war in 1979. it's part of the group army thingie. i could be wrong. in that way, there won't be class b in 1979, but yes, good armies like 38th and 39th weren't in the south for sure. but later on from 1979-1989, they did send observors, and recon teams to assist the units on the line. but i don't think they ever send any fighting groups up there.
about BM-21. the war for viet nam is nothing but a retreat, you think the "token force" of viet nam could stop the tide of glorious PLA (it's a line from one of the old 007 movies, except it's soviet - british)? from the first day of the war, the regular army of viet nam was retreating and retreating, they left local militia to fight with our army, their regular didn't join the war that much, and since we striked them first, they left some of the their trash weaponaris as well, and BM-21 rockets were one of them.
according to recent internet stories told by recon soldiers back to the 80s. once in their mission, they discovered a huge empty ground, once the command thought was a camp or some short of, while they were there, they discovered it's nothing but a field of destroyed artilleries, armoured vehciles and stuff. you see, country like viet nam could only live on the gears they got from the enemy.
http://bwl.jschina.com.cn/war79/t1/145.jpg

ahhhhhh, i was looking for the other photo. i have this book, and there is a photo of captured AT-3 and BM-21 rockets. too bad they didn't scan that.

[simonov]

Looks like the photo of RPG-7 launcher.

So its mean the VN Militia is good enough because they can make 25,000 casualties in PLA sides...

[vincelee]

they were. They've been in constant warfare for the last 4 decades, you'd expect something to come out of that. 79 was a very large wakeup call for the CMC, some people say that after 79, the foundation of People's War was destroyed.

However, it would have been different if the PLA was fighting a defensive war.

[Obcession]

I've read stories that when China first attacked Vietnam in 1979, the soldiers were lying in secrecy for 2 or 3 days before the attack (literally, lying). When the attack began, a barrage of artillery shells bombed the military targets in the area. My question is, 1. Could the PLA soldiers call in artillery strikes? 2. Is there a possibility that the PLA used a creeping barrage when advancing?

[Red Guard]

Looks like the photo of RPG-7 launcher.

So its mean the VN Militia is good enough because they can make 25,000 casualties in PLA sides...

ja, that's because i didn't find the BM-21 rocekts photo.
and i think that casualty number is bs.

about the artillery, i don't know about right on the days of 1979, since it's a whole frontal attack, there is really no need for a platoon to call in artilleries. but later on conflicts, as our recon team was in the enemy occupied area, or when the squad size unit occupied the caves, yes they could call in artilleries, as long as the artis could get them. you know it's mountains, there are places that the arties can't get.
and the creeping barrage, i think that's what happened on that day. PLA tactics were taken from soviet army mostly. one of the problem was about the mines i guess, wasn't good enough..... casualties were made there a lot. and PLA was being nice to the locals, and local would just fire at us. so later in the war, they would kill anyone who looks suspicious. and they pretty much destroyed lots of stuff too. my da says, when our troop went deep into viet nam, they saw trucks with full tank gas and full of ammos, food, or fuel in the deep mountains. and china called up on truck drivers in the nation went into there and drive them back. and stories told by soldiers, who went into the city of "liang shan"( it's probably a viet namese name in english), and they took things they could take away, like watches. and they destroyed things they couldn't take away, like burning money, burning bicycles, destroy factory machinaries. some stories told, PLA would destroy all the light pole, phone pole, or destroy the farm animal house, let the pigs ran ont he street. basicly, just destroy the stuff they own, so they won't gain strength fast and recover. man it was fun..........

[simonov]

Well the number casualties isn't BS, in CDF that number is consit of KIA,WIA and MIA

Liang Shan = Lan Song

There is the rumour when they took the city PLA get order to kill everything live including animal, and their farm

[taijisheng]

I remember watching the artillary bombardment on the TV when the war started, it looked very impressive, but later it appeared that all those bombardments had no effect becuause vietnamese built their bunkers mostly halfway in the hills where it can only be reached by rockets.

The casualty was very high in the beginning because of the bad commanders, by that time the PLA had been in bad shape for like 15 years, Mao's culture revolution did the same thing to PLA as what Stalin did to his red army before the 2nd world war.

However, Vietnamese knew they could never stop a chinese advance, no matter what, their best chance was to delay china in the mountainous border region, and did their best to cause chinese casualties, however, casualties was not something that china cared much at that time, a date was set to capture the strategic city Liang Shan, and Liang Shan was captured in time. From there, Vietnam lies open.

Vietnamese fought a very bitter war, they would fought to death even when completly surrounded, their villigers , from young kids till old women, often carried out suicide attacks on chinese soldiers while chinese army tried to keep them out of the battle, on one account, vietnamese special forces infiltrated the frontline, captured a chinese field millitary hospital, and killed all the docters, nurses and wounded soldiers. The last was a big shocking news to chinese soldiers, they didn't expect vietnamese soldiers to kill those defendless people in cold blood. I think from that point the wiping out of complete vietnamese villages started, no one were spared.

That was a stupid war , I think both sides now just want to forget about it.

[Red Guard]

"captured a chinese field millitary hospital, and killed all the docters, nurses and wounded soldiers. The last was a big shocking news to chinese soldiers, they didn't expect vietnamese soldiers to kill those defendless people in cold blood. I think from that point the wiping out of complete vietnamese villages started, no one were spared."

this is one of the internet rumour that spreads wide. which is not true.

[simonov]

What i Confused is Sovyet keep silence, even their had base in Cam Ranh. This is happen again when 1984 War berak, and when PLAN wipe out VN patrol ship in Spratly

[Red Guard]

this is funny, you spelt "soviet" as "sovyet", are you russian?
anyway. the soviet didn't keep silence. actually, ONE of the REASONS PLA stopped at liang shan is because the soviet had spoken. if china occupies viet nam, the soviet will attack us from the back, then US, who was friendly with china at the time said if soviet would attack china, US will help china. that's one of the reason china just went into liang shan, and left. even though it's not a MAIN reason, since china has no interest in viet nam at all.
there is a saying from acient time, that states once liang shan is gone, there will be no more mountains, all flat lands, and in acient time, every time the viet nam king gives the emporer a pain in the butt, once the army captures liang shan, the viet nam king would come out and surrender to them, since it's not possible to defeat the army after that.

[simonov]

Sorry, miss spell. Is Liang Shan is Chinese name for Lan Song city?
During the 1984 war PRC took over The Mount Lao Shan (Old Mountain), is Lao Shan and Liang Shan is the same area?

[taijisheng]

"captured a chinese field millitary hospital, and killed all the docters, nurses and wounded soldiers. The last was a big shocking news to chinese soldiers, they didn't expect vietnamese soldiers to kill those defendless people in cold blood. I think from that point the wiping out of complete vietnamese villages started, no one were spared."

this is one of the internet rumour that spreads wide. which is not true.

'internet rumour' ? when I heard it, internet didn't even exist yet, it was a year after the war started that I heard it from my brother, who was a PLA officer at
Guangzhou millitary area at that time.

[KYli]

Sino-Vietnam war

The deteriated of relationship between China and Russia after death of Stalin, and eventually the sino-soviet split. Vietnam gradully become closer with USSR, eventhrough both the russia and China countinued to supply NV. For china, the soviet and Vietnam relationship was a worrying development. After Vietnam war, vietnam became closer to Russia while Cambodia became closer to China. Vietnam invaded Cambodia in late 1978 was strongly encourage by Russia. The soviets made it clear that they were supporting the Vietnam against Cambodian incursions. But China did had different perspective, China saw the distance between Soviet and Vietnam will make USSR difficult to support Viet. China also don't see Vietnam would be important enough for Soviet to go to war.

Dec, 1978, chinese military started to gather along chinese-vietnam border. Chinese military also reinforced chinese-Russia border to prepare for USSR invasion. Jan 28-Feb 4, 1979 Chinese leader DengXP visited USA and warned Vietnam about the possible War.

FEB 17, 1979 China invaded Vietnam. The PRC publicly announced their intention to invade. One of the reason cited for the invasion was the mistreatent of Viet ethnic chinese minority. The goal was to destroy Vietnam military structures along Chinese-Vietnam border, and forced Vietnam out of cambodia which China had failed. Around 80,000 PRC Liberation Army crossed into northern Vietnam. Most of Vietnam best troops were in Cambodia. The Vietnam claimed there are only 100,000 army regular divisions and militiary units in the Northern area. The fighting mainly occurring in the provinces of Cao Bang, Lao Cai, and Lang Son.

March 4, 1979 China took control of Lang son. This was very important because Lang Son was the last defence of Vietnam capital city Ha Noi.

March 5, 1979 China started retreat from Vietnam.

March 16,1979 the war end.

Chinese military- wounded+dead around 26000
Vietnam military- wounded+dead around 39000

Both PRC and Vietnam have different number of casualties, with the Viet claiming that the Chinese suffered 60,000 casualties and 20,000 deaths. The Chinese claim they suffered casualties of about 20,000 to 30,000 with Vietnamese losses at about 40,000 to 60,000.

July 12, 1984 Second Sino-Vietnam War

It was a continuation of the 1979 war, in 1984 PRC decide to take the Laoshan area and surrounding areas. Lao shan is translate as OLD mountain in Chinese. They sucessfully took control without encounter much resistance. Basicly PLA decide to dig in and control the high ground, and Vietnamese force counter attacked.

Vietnam gathered 8 regiments to take Lao Shan which was held by China. It was said the Vietnamese were hiding in the woods before the attack, PLA sent some recon fire from artillary. The Vietnamese captured some positions but was droven back by PLA counter offensive. At the end Vietnamese army redrawed leaving 2000 casualties and approximately 3000 wounded.

PLA rotate troops in and out from Lao Shan, so they could have real combat experience. By 1989 PLA withdraw their troops from Lao shan after a peace treaty was sign.

There are different opinion of who won the war. But this depend objectives of each sides, if the chinese aim was to force Viet withdrawal from Cambodia. The PRC failed while Vietnam have numbers of troops pulled out Cambodia to fight Chinese. Cambodia remained under Viet military occupation for some time. If PRC objective is to punish Viet, the war may have consider as successful. If PRC aims were to test the USSR, then this alliance may have been proven not strong. If China objective was the border disputes, PRC failed to settle it as this war. Bottom line is I think PRC probably had accomplish what they wanted in the war, but the results might not be pretty.

[Red Guard]

'internet rumour' ? when I heard it, internet didn't even exist yet, it was a year after the war started that I heard it from my brother, who was a PLA officer at
Guangzhou millitary area at that time.

then you should be awared of the miliary rumours are spreading much wider within the army. no one could tell where it came from. one of the greatest success the viet nam specialists achieved is they successfully took out one of two artillery radar we bought from...sweden? somewhere like that.


TO simonov

i don't know the viet namese spell, so i used the chinese pingyin.

liang shang, is the one of the biggest city and provincial capital ( i believe) in northen viet nam.
lao shan is the mountain lies on the border of china and viet nam.

[adeptitus]

t
liang shang, is the one of the biggest city and provincial capital ( i believe) in northen viet nam.
lao shan is the mountain lies on the border of china and viet nam.

You're probably referring to Lang Son:
http://www.wompom.ca/vietnam/vnprovinc206.htm

In many (but not all) Vietnamese provinces, the name of the province, and its capital city is the same. i.e. Lang Son province capital city is also called Lang Son. Same with Cao Bang and Lao Cai.

[simonov]

then you should be awared of the miliary rumours are spreading much wider within the army. no one could tell where it came from. one of the greatest success the viet nam specialists achieved is they successfully took out one of two artillery radar we bought from...sweden? somewhere like that.


I have hear some kind of rumor, that PLA will kill everything live, in Lang Son, Cao Bai and Lao Cai, when they took it.
But Actually they just destroy economic resources there

[Red Guard]

rumours are spreaded, by both sides. the viet namese would spread it to show how cruel the chinese are. and the chinese would spread it to make ourselves feel good about it, since they didn't do good on chinese borders. but normally, chinese soldiers who are under the education of communist party for the last 14 years of their lives, they won't just go destroy things with cold blood. they won't just shoot anyone standing around, not even mentioning a pig or dog. but they might got orders to destroy things, like machinaries in the factory, or mecandises in the markets to destroy the economy of viet nam.
speaking fairly, PLA is an army being taught of chairman mao's thoughs, a people's army, an army found by the people, for the people, eveyrone was taught to respect the civilians, not harm both chinese people and the enemy civilians. things like raping was strictly forbiddened, anyone found raping local civilians will be shot. a story told an officer who happened to have an affair with a local viet namese woman, who happened to be with him free willingly got courtmashalled. he was killed by a land mine later in the war.

[homeless]

Red Guard and Patriot , I am a chinese too , i was born and grew up in china , and i am still living in china now !!
LOL

[JonMan]

By 1989 PLA withdraw their troops from Lao shan after a peace treaty was sign.

There are different opinion of who won the war. But this depend objectives of each sides, if the chinese aim was to force Viet withdrawal from Cambodia. The PRC failed while Vietnam have numbers of troops pulled out Cambodia to fight Chinese. Cambodia remained under Viet military occupation for some time. If PRC objective is to punish Viet, the war may have consider as successful. If PRC aims were to test the USSR, then this alliance may have been proven not strong. If China objective was the border disputes, PRC failed to settle it as this war. Bottom line is I think PRC probably had accomplish what they wanted in the war, but the results might not be pretty.

I'm thinking Soviet Union might have something to do with withdrawing troops. In that year Soviet break up is inevitable.

[SteelBird]

Sorry, miss spell. Is Liang Shan is Chinese name for Lan Song city?
During the 1984 war PRC took over The Mount Lao Shan (Old Mountain), is Lao Shan and Liang Shan is the same area?

Your question seem to have nobody answer: so I'll do it. Liang Shan is in chinese, and they call it Lang Son in Vietnamese (note: "g" on "Lang" & no "g" on "Son"). (I'm a person who knows both Chinese and Vietnamese ;) )

So far, the one who suffer from the war & relationship between superpower was the weak, Cambodia. Until now, cambodia is still under influence of VietNam, and I'm living in Cambodia :( but this is a little bit off topic.

[Gaginang]

yes cambodia is still suffering from cambodia, becauase cambodia is still have to pay for the 60,000 lives and the cost the vietnamese spent to rescue cambodia from the chinese back Pol Pot (Political Potencial)

North Korean and chinese were helping khmer rouge to kill cambodian.
without vietnamese invasion of cambodia, cambodian would have extinst under the influences of HAN chinese.

[Red Guard]

yes cambodia is still suffering from cambodia, becauase cambodia is still have to pay for the 60,000 lives and the cost the vietnamese spent to rescue cambodia from the chinese back Pol Pot (Political Potencial)

North Korean and chinese were helping khmer rouge to kill cambodian.
without vietnamese invasion of cambodia, cambodian would have extinst under the influences of HAN chinese.

you made viets sound so powerful. you think viets don't have to live under the influence of china????

[darth sidious]

yes cambodia is still suffering from cambodia, becauase cambodia is still have to pay for the 60,000 lives and the cost the vietnamese spent to rescue cambodia from the chinese back Pol Pot (Political Potencial)
North Korean and chinese were helping khmer rouge to kill cambodian.
without vietnamese invasion of cambodia, cambodian would have extinst under the influences of HAN chinese.

vietnam is weak my friend also some of the most notable vivtium of plo plot are ethical chinese so your point is moot

PS. teh chinese invasion devasted the northen province of vietnam so dont think they had power to do anything much after 79

[Gaginang]

Yes i think the vietnamese as a whole is underinfluence of the chinese, but the viet military was strong even to decaputate the POL POT in just one month, the POL POT made themself weaker when they are starting to killing themself. during 77-78. i think the chinese invaded vietnane not to slap the viet, but because they are lossing rice production from cambodia to feed it's peoples.

[Obcession]

What?! May I remind you that the war was 1979, by that time the Cultural Revolution is over, and grain production in China was recovering, why would China invade Vietnam for rice from Cambodia? That's just absurd. The main reasons were the Vietnamese allying with USSR,and the expelling of ethnic Chinese from Vietnam and the seizure of Chinese property.

[Red Guard]

geez. this is the first time i hear that china has to rely on some other countries' food production to feed chinese........... when we were young, we were taught that one of the modern wonder of the world is chinese with XXX land of the world to feed XXX % of world population. chinese losing rice production from combodia.....hahaha.....

[renmin]

People, rice had nothing to do with the sino-vietnam war:off NO more conflicts or the mods will kill us all! Obcession is correct about the start of the war. Vietnam had also made threats to the Chinese government at this time period eventually pissing the PRC off, then it was SHOOT and KILL!

[kaiser.ca]

i remember we had a pic thread on the sino-vietnam war in the old forum (the ezboard one) im sure you can still search for it on google and find it. it's also in the military history section i beblieve. but since it's closed you cant post in it anymore.
is this pic?

[Yang Yang]

as a chinese , i hate viet nam , because it fought against china after winning us under china's help . never , ever will i foget viet nam's action !

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3033/u1413276521961529052gp08op.jpg dogfight trainning

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8343/u4581798883868905905gp01ql.jpg March

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1810/u22892940473986307313gp32ui.jpg dead PLA soldier's gravestone and his mother

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5357/u2006879643601904578gp03qh.jpg Mao er dong (cat's eyes cavity)

[Gaginang]

as a chinese , i hate viet nam , because it fought against china after winning us under china's help . never , ever will i foget viet nam's action !

As a chinese i hate those communist chinese that helped cambodian communist to kill fellow chinese and the natives of cambodian.

Before 1975 cambodian only grew rice once a year, after From 1975 to 1979. cambodian grew rice 3 times a year , dat is an increase of 300% of rice production. but 90% of rice grew in cambodia were send to china, let the people to starve to death while the chinese fatten their belly.

dat is a fact. why because the cambodian communist region needed guns, and those guns were from china. even the king of cambodia at dat time was puppet for the chinese.

To repay their debt to the chinese, the cambodian paid with rice, the whole country productions were rice and only rice.

cambodian was invaded by vietnamese troops in 1979, and those vietname's troops were mostly made up chinese ethnic living in vietnamese, looking for revenge for their relatives dat died in cambodia

all i can say is dat if the vietnamese didn't invade cambodia, the chinese would just make the cambodian communist grow rice for them untill there is no one else to grow rice to repay them.

and thank god the viet did, or else i would not have been alive.

and for matter of the chinese to invade vietname is souly because cambodian was one of the source of rice from south east asia. and for china to invade vietname to give thema hidding, it's properganda i reckon, because my grand dat and his brother is chinese but also fight the for Vietcong against Uncle sam.

you want to know more about chinese involvement in the cambodia genercide, you should look up cambodian genercide website and see the victim testomony.

not just chinese , but also north korean were there too.

[Gollevainen]

Now this "i hate this and i hate that" type of posting ends! Also if i hear one oword of ANYONE harvesting RICE once more, the thread will be closed and the person saying so gets warning, understood? Also this is Sino-Vietnam war thread, not thread about Campodian history, so i strongly suggest that all of you get back to the topic:off :off

[Gaginang]

Now this "i hate this and i hate that" type of posting ends! Also if i hear one oword of ANYONE harvesting RICE once more, the thread will be closed and the person saying so gets warning, understood? Also this is Sino-Vietnam war thread, not thread about Campodian history, so i strongly suggest that all of you get back to the topic:off :off

hey man, why are you so angry?? sino-vietnam is relevant to cambodia, because vietname didn't invade cambodia, there would be no sino-vietnam war.

[Obcession]

*************************What did I just hours before said about rice?***************
Now, about the Sino Vietnam War.

Why do you guys think the PLA withdrew after capturing Liang Shan? With a few thousand more casualties, the PLA could've captured Hanoi, and that would've dealt a significantly larger phsychological impact than just capturing Liang Shan. The Vietnamese claimed that they won the war, and the war didn't change their attitudes toward China one bit. If Hanoi was captured, atleast they'd be thinking twice about border incursions after that (which frequently happened).

[Gollevainen]

I'm not angry, just passing on orders, orders to cut the offtopic discussion, becose from expereince, these sentences that opens with "i hate..." usualy ends up to flaming batlles which are agianst the rules of this forum.

Campodia might be relevant to Sino-vietnam war, but as political discussion is forbidden in this forum, there is not much to venture in the Campodian genoside which could be related to the actual war and it's tactical/strategical and techinical side which you are supposed to discuss.

[Defense]

Transportation & telecommunication intelligence

This type of intelligence can be crucial to correctly assessing a nation's ability to wage war, as it concerns a nation's highways, railroads, inland waterways, and civil airways as well as its telephone, telegraph, and civil broadcast capabilities.

When China sent troops across the border into Vietnam in 1979, many observers assumed that China would win the conflict.

This estimate was based on the huge size of the Chinese army and on its excellent performance against United Nations forces in the Korean War.

After China failed to score a decisive victory; the same commentators examined China's transportation and telecommunication networks and found that, while they were very highly developed in the Northeast, they were quite primitive in the South.

It was concluded that the advanced northeastern systems and the primitive southern systems were prime factors in China's success in Korea and in its lackluster performance in Vietnam.

[mindreader]

As a chinese i hate those communist chinese that helped cambodian communist to kill fellow chinese and the natives of cambodian.

Before 1975 cambodian only grew rice once a year, after From 1975 to 1979. cambodian grew rice 3 times a year , dat is an increase of 300% of rice production. but 90% of rice grew in cambodia were send to china, let the people to starve to death while the chinese fatten their belly.

dat is a fact. why because the cambodian communist region needed guns, and those guns were from china. even the king of cambodia at dat time was puppet for the chinese.

To repay their debt to the chinese, the cambodian paid with rice, the whole country productions were rice and only rice.

cambodian was invaded by vietnamese troops in 1979, and those vietname's troops were mostly made up chinese ethnic living in vietnamese, looking for revenge for their relatives dat died in cambodia

all i can say is dat if the vietnamese didn't invade cambodia, the chinese would just make the cambodian communist grow rice for them untill there is no one else to grow rice to repay them.

and thank god the viet did, or else i would not have been alive.

and for matter of the chinese to invade vietname is souly because cambodian was one of the source of rice from south east asia. and for china to invade vietname to give thema hidding, it's properganda i reckon, because my grand dat and his brother is chinese but also fight the for Vietcong against Uncle sam.

you want to know more about chinese involvement in the cambodia genercide, you should look up cambodian genercide website and see the victim testomony.

not just chinese , but also north korean were there too.

You know what your problem is? You have no sense of objectivity and logical thinking. Which is why your post reeks with foul odour.

Things in general were crap in Cambodia during that time, yet those so called "Chinese" like you like to use the figure "50% of Chinese in Cambodia were killed" as if ethnic cleansing was happening.

In reality, there were far more Khmers killed (in absolute quantity) than Chinese. The only reason so high a percentage of Chinese were killed was because there were so relatively few of them. The Cambodia autucracy did not specifically target ethnic Chinese as Suharto did in Indonesia. Everybody got screwed.

The reason the CCP supported the Cambodian government was quite simple. It was either them or the Vietnamese, who's interest were closely tied with the Soviets, both have ambitions (realistic or otherwise) of invading China. It's as simple as that.

Yet you feel the need to suggest something as moronic as "China needing Cambodian rice." Seriously, do you have any idea how much rice Cambodia was exporting or how much China was producing? China's rice reserve is higher than Cambodia's annual export output.

Not only that, you were silly enough to suggest that the vast majority of invading VA were ethnic Chinese. Only someone who can't tell the difference between the Chinese (even those genetically closely related to the Viets) from the Vietnamese would suggest that.

Do yourself a favour. Next time you suggest something as ridiculous as this, at least bother to do some research. That way you'll at least be only a little embarrassed instead of thoroughly humiliated.

[hotrungnghia]

do weapons get equip Vietnamese people The Fleetted with? and offers is french need give... to china in autarchical litigious concernment on sea ?

[Norfolk]

The Sino-Vietnamese Crisis, 1975-1979: An Historical Case Study (http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p4013coll2&CISOPTR=1643), by Mark A. Coyle:


ABSTRACT

THE SINO-VIETNAMESE CRISIS, 1975-1979: AN HISTORICAL CASE STUDY, by Captain Mark A. Coyle, USA

How did China and Viet Nam each react to the crisis in their relations between 1975 and 1979? Why did the Chinese ultimately wage war against the Vietnamese? This work is an historical case study that addresses these central questions.

International crisis management case studies done by Allen Whiting, Ole Hotsti, Alexander George, and Richard Smoke form a base for developing the analysis. Journalistic reports and government documents constitute the majority of the primary source materials used.

Both Hanoi and Beijing felt that the other posed a serious threat to its national security. Each side sought to comnunicate its concern to the other through aseries of signals. The study focuses mainly on the pattern of Chinese signals, as Beijing responded to what it considered increasingly unacceptable behavior by Hanoi. 'The means of delivery, the rhetorical intensity, the level of issuing authority, and the relative timing of the signals all showed indications of escalating as the crisis became more severe.

'The paper proposes an index of indicators by which to judge the progress of crisis development and crisis control. One of the chief difficulties in the Sino-Vietnamese dispute was a conflict of perceptions. Each side was using a different perspective in viewing its own and the other side's position. By using indicators to understand crisis development more fully, decision-makers may be able to exercise crisis management more effectively.

[RedMercury]

Wonderful thesis work and a good history lesson. Thanks.