Defender of the Mount Delta-----PLA paratroopers

[Red Guard]

(even though 15th airborne army is under the command of high HQ of air force, but since it's pretty much fighting on the ground, so i post it here)

".....after the battle of mount delta, the world recongized there is a mount delta in korea and there is a 15th army on mouth delta!"
Mount Delta is one of the most famous battle that was fought in korean war. countless chinese volunteer soldiers had kept their frontline on the mountain not only under the heavy fire of "UN force", also with the limited food and mostly, water.
One of the famous chinese hero soldiers, Huang Jiguan, who blocked the enemy machine gun position with his own chest, came from this herotic unit. After they came back from korea. It was selected from so many other hero units to form the first and the only paratroop unit.
they are, today's 15th army.
i will start with a couple new personal equipment, as a compare to my last TZ's gear thread, and as a militria fan, i will explain some of the new equipment. then i will go along with some of the training pics.



the new compass is first seen with the paras, type 97(here may show it's 98). army is still issued with type 62
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_23.jpg


the new binocular of type 97 is also seen here.
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_24.jpg



now, do we have NVGs :D?????
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_25.jpg


from the left up corner to the right down corner
first row(left to right):
type 97 compass with shell; type 97 binocular with shell; paratrooper's knife(notice the blue para wing); type 95's baynoet
second row: new paratrooper's helmet with urban camo cover; paratrooper's canteen(the outside is the case which is used as "lunch box"); new paratrooper's shovel; 4 magz for 95 and type 95 assault rifle (standard PLA loading, 4 mags in punch and 1 on rifle, some bullets will be put in bags too, more for paratroopers will be introduced later)
third row: parachute rope; weir cutter???; case??; GPS; NVG; and some unidentified equipment.
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_26.jpg



i will put on a detailed new paratrooper's combat vest followed.
your reply is my power to continue.

[rommel]

Hum... This time equipment look good, but I'm curious to know what PLA combat vest look like. Still, for the compass, can you give us a picture of the compass but open. And I want to know, are they self-illuminating compass ?? Do they have a mirror and a cord for accuracy ??? Otherwise, everything look great (but I still prefered my canandian gear :D )

[Red Guard]

the only canadian i perfer is the vest and the new uniform. i will open another thread about chinese compass later on. after all this is what i am good at. i am going to give the detail picture about the new 02 paratrooper combat vest in about.....10 minutes.
okay, paratrooper's gear continued. this one will be focused on the new vest
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_871/publicphotos/6_465005.jpg
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_871/publicphotos/6_465006.jpg
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_871/publicphotos/6_465008.jpg
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_871/publicphotos/6_465009.jpg
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_871/publicphotos/6_465010.jpg



this is the most advanced combat vest of the army. i myself consider it is much better than the old 95 vest. it has 4 mag punch on the front, a S belt with the airborne logo on buckle. the gas mask's bag is tied on the right leg. one of the shinning point is the combine of stuff pack with the mag punch. since you could only carry 4+1 mags on the vest the pack could also hold another 3 mags which got a total of 8 mags, that's about 240 bullets for one trooper. and you could also put some bullets in the pack and meal pack in it too. this pack is tied around the hip. and a 45L backpack could also be worn on the shoulder. it's a great gear and i am expecting to get one next summer while i go back.

more pic will be added on later on.

[rommel]

Hum... This vest look cool, still, I don't know why, but the magazine seem to be very long... Well, don't care very much, this thing seem to be very decent, I'm curious to know are you confortable with it. I loves my CADPAT vest, it only have one bad thing is that the bayonnet is well, look on the image, if it can be show...
http://www.army.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/images/items/TactVest/TactVest00_b.jpg
at the center, in your sternum...

[Red Guard]

Hum... This time equipment look good, but I'm curious to know what PLA combat vest look like. Still, for the compass, can you give us a picture of the compass but open. And I want to know, are they self-illuminating compass ?? Do they have a mirror and a cord for accuracy ??? Otherwise, everything look great (but I still prefered my canandian gear :D )
since my friend especially asked, please don't mind me double posting.
now type 97 compass is still like a piece of very new equipment. i haven't seen the real thing yet. so i could only show you the pic i found on the net. it's pretty expensive it costs about 50 canadian bucks for one. while the old type 62 (brand new) cost about less than 20 bucks.
type 62 was one of the compass used longest during 50 years of PLA history. i am not really a compass fan, so i don't really know anything about it. i think it's a mix of many other soviet, german, czech compasses. type 62 is a great compass. it is still widly used in the service, waiting to be replaced by the new 97. actually from type 62 to 97, there was a type 80. it uses a lot of plastic on it, it's very light, but i think it had some problems and it was out of the service while it was being issued. oh i just realized. type 62 was a copy of...the german compass i forgot, it has an old chinese version called "zhong zheng" type compass. zhong zheng is the name of Jiang jie shi. it was issued to the german standard divisions during sino japanese war.

about the binocular, the binocular PLA uses now is called type 62 binocular, it's a copy of a soviet scope, and soviet copied from german 'zeuss".



http://www.cosin.com.cn/Upload/shop/pb20031020175435.jpg
http://www.zzdby.com/product/productimg/b1102766070.jpg


rommel you forgot i am canadian too? i know this vest pretty well, the bayonet fit in the center is pretty funny.
as i said before, in PLA, gears don't fit to people, people fit to gears.
but i think this vest is the most comfortable over all the other type 95, type 91 and the 3/4 mag ammo chest punch

[rommel]

oh sorry, I just forget that you were canadian... Of which region ?? Those pictures indicates a lot, yes it's a copy of the german compass, you have a cord and a mirror, that's very because it make the using of it much more accurate. But this compass don't seem to be self-illuminating, only phosphorescent. Our (CF) compass is self-illuminous because there is a tritium mix in the compass that emit light (well, more radiation) and we can use it in the dark...

[Red Guard]

i am from toronto, i live in hamilton ontario now, because i go to mcmaster university.
i didn't understand what you meant by self-illuminating, my bad english....
and no, actually type 62 is this "self-illuminating" compass, it has tritium on both the pointer and the ...the...plate....i don't know the english name for it... and since it's bad for human body, they changed it to the chemical thing, that keeps energy within and release it while dark, on type 97 compass now.

[rommel]

i am from toronto, i live in hamilton ontario now, because i go to mcmaster university.
i didn't understand what you meant by self-illuminating, my bad english....
and no, actually type 62 is this "self-illuminating" compass, it has tritium on both the pointer and the ...the...plate....i don't know the english name for it... and since it's bad for human body, they changed it to the chemical thing, that keeps energy within and release it while dark, on type 97 compass now.

self-illuminating mean that you don't need a external source of light because it release light , well it's a radioactive compound (tritium)... so it naturally emit radiation under the form of light, before, compass were using radium, but we change to tritium that is much more safer...

when you accumulate and release in the dark, we called that phosphorescent.

My english could be worst than your since I'm french-canadian and I live in Montréal, Quebec, going to the Université de Montréal

[darth sidious]

Nice to see there are other canadians around but red guard I think you made a mistake zhong zheng is the name of Chin ka shek but that name was given to the rifle the chinese army use the Masueer Stander 1924 almost exact copy of the K98K. a good rifle it cause some trouble to the Americans in Korea

[Red Guard]

hehehe. well talking about chinese weaponary, i might be a bit better than you are. you see lots of stuff were named zhong zheng back then. as jiang jie shi was "the one and the only". comparing to it, nothing was named chairman mao..... the rifle was named zhong zheng, yes, and the compass was named zhong zheng as well, two kind, one is zhong zheng-1 compass and another one was zhong zheng-2. there were limited numbers of the compasses in china, and i happened to see "one" in 04 while i was back, then i found out it was faked from a 62 compass. those are two things i know from china republic before 49 named as zhong zheng. i think there are other stuff as well just not as famous.

[darth sidious]

Yes the name was give to many weapons there was even a rocket luncher like the russian BM-13;) .But the most importemt was the rifle the "good " divisions in the begining of the war had importeed or copied German equipment but once the war started they used what ever was avilible also I dout there were that many compus give the limited manfactureing ability of the natialists

please refer to my thred the equipment used in Korea section

[Red Guard]

i think i made a mistake about the numbers of the compasses, i think they meant for german made compasses were limited
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_00.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_03.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_05.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_08.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_09.jpg

[Red Guard]

http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_17.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_20.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_22.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_25.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101832_31.jpg

[Red Guard]

http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111100748_11.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111100748_24.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111100748_25.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111100748_27.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111100748_37.jpg

wow human wave......

[Red Guard]

http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_00.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_06.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_07.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_10.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/WALLPAPER/ddaa2/1119/1111101458_11.jpg


from the colour of the soil. i think this exercise is located in south, deep, deep south.
i am done with this thread. if anyone want to ask some questions about it, you are free to ask.

[drunkhomer]

y do dey where dat kind of cammo???....dey stand out sooo badly

[Red Guard]

we all agree with you. maybe they try to show that their missions are operated in....urban....
another thought is, they had too many this kind of clothes, you have to use them up.....some smart axx in the high command thought the urban camo is pretty "advanced".

[Yimmy]

Those little boats they use, how fast do they go?

I ask, because there doesn't seem to be much to hold onto, and those guys are weighted down with all their gear and bergen - with apparantly no form of flotation device.

If one falls in going over a wave or somesuch, thats it, he's drowned.

[darth sidious]

:mad:

alll of them have been trained to swim :D by your logic the allies LCU aka higgins boats are worse the American soliders carries even more weapons yet drowing was not a problem

[Yimmy]

Hmmm, unfortunately quite the opposite is true, drowaning is often a greater risk on amphibious exercises than the enemy.

You can not swim with 30 or more pounds strapped to you.

[darth sidious]

This is silly I can swim with 30 pounds on for at lest 20 minutes all of them have been trained so i dont think drowning is a major problem with the pla one or two death may ocur but not much

[Yimmy]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry, I really don't.

I said 30 pounds or more, which will be their uniform, boots, load carrying gear, and bergen. In all likelyhood, it probably weighs closer to 50 pounds, but lets stick with 30.

Now, go stick 30 pounds on, boots, bergan and all, and go jump in a swimming pool.

It was nice knowing you...

[darth sidious]

Yimmy

that was part of the life guard test that toke and passed the worest part is the shoes as for the rest of the gear that not so big of a problem soliders can also throw away the pack and guns so its not that hard

[Yimmy]

I don't believe that for a second. You can not just drop your rifle, your a soldier, its your lifeline, and by the time you have the pack off your already standing on the bottom.

[darth sidious]

CAN you actualy swim if you cant i suggesst you learn before posting

you said no one can swim with 30pounds on and will drownd I proved you WRONG it can be done if its swiming with a gun NO one will try that but your can get rid of the pack preety quickly

[Yimmy]

You said you can swim with over 30 pounds of equipment for 20 minutes.

******* Nothing is impossible. Did you see him drown?

I just searched to see what I could find test wise for lifeguards, and the closest thing I found was diving into a pool with a 9 pound weight, which you can remove.

Take note of the depth of a swimming pool compared to the sea, and 9 pounds compared to over 30.

[darth sidious]

wich country did you search?

can you actualy swim? also there is no diveing with 9 pound weight but you have to pick up a 20 pound one

try first with full clothins and a 15 pound weight partice more I sure you can do it :)

[rommel]

well, both of you please CALM DOWN !!!

1-Infantry don't train at sea or deep water, especially Airbone

2-It's true that it's tough for a poor infantryman to get rid of his stuff, but the packsack is the easier part...

3-Well, those kind of boat wouldn't flip easily, and soldier rarely fall from it, yeah btw, there's no country wearing floating equipement when training with combat gear.

4-Combat gear are rarely weight over 25lb without rifle. I take my exemple, my combat vest weight maybe 2,5lb, 3lb for the canteen, 2 lb for 2 hand grenade, 7lb for the food and plate,10lb for ammunition, 2lb for a radio and etc... So a typicall combat load + a pack sack will be in the 50lb

[darth sidious]

The trick is to always keep your self in motion even if its slow dont ever stop once you stop if hard to start up agin put your weight foreward that helps

[Yimmy]

Yes, I can swim.

Yes, combat units do use flotation devices, they are handy in preventing highly trained individuals from wasting their life drowning.

No, you can not swim with full combat equipment, and no flotation device.

Yes, you may get your gear off in time if your lucky, but I doubt your chances.

[darth sidious]

I never said full combat load just 30pound in weight its not so hard once toy get use to it yes you can take off equipment in water I have take off packs and shoes before with partice I am sure you can do it by the way combat gear in not 50 pound tommies is WWI in only 60 pounds and they have a hard time running:)

[Gollevainen]

Well one word yimmy and darth, and you can go swimming in some other place!
I dont give shit (and so doesent anyone else) wheter you can swim or not, but sure is that you cannot behaive in mature manner!

So if one of you continues this, You both get a warning, understood?

[Red Guard]

a mistake i had made.
the rear pack of the gear has 5 mag packs. that adds up the ammo total to 4+1+5, 10 magz in total per trooper, that means one could carry 300 bullets into action, wowwwwwww

[Bohemond]

Well, US marines are trained to swim with their gear, about 30 pounds worth...so Im assuming the Chinese could do the same;)

[MIGleader]

Well, US marines are trained to swim with their gear, about 30 pounds worth...so Im assuming the Chinese could do the same;)

but thats only for five minutes. it all comes down to how good a swimmer you are. im quite surpised that in boot camp, many adults dont know how to swim, much less carry 30 pounds of gear. while others like swimmerxc:D can do it in a breeze.

i guess pla frogmen and elite marines are taught how to swim for sustained periods witha heavy load, as their job would require it. im not surprised if they strap bricks to the soldiers bakc and make em swim...i sae it in china once.

but even with all this intense training, swimming with full gear in rough seas is incredible ardous and dangerous. the people that came up with the "million man swim" idea dont know what their talking about.

[swimmerXC]

but thats only for five minutes. it all comes down to how good a swimmer you are. im quite surpised that in boot camp, many adults dont know how to swim, much less carry 30 pounds of gear. while others like swimmerxc:D can do it in a breeze.

i guess pla frogmen and elite marines are taught how to swim for sustained periods witha heavy load, as their job would require it. im not surprised if they strap bricks to the soldiers bakc and make em swim...i sae it in china once.

but even with all this intense training, swimming with full gear in rough seas is incredible ardous and dangerous. the people that came up with the "million man swim" idea dont know what their talking about.

umm we dont train with weights like 30 pounds.. we just do drills (http://www.mvm.org/workouts-drills.php) for like an hour, then just cardio for 30 mintues swimming no stoping back and forth... i seen and tried those weighted vested before, the university kids uses them (mostly 3-5 pounders); trust me if you can't swim proficiently enough... well you better have a life guard or two near by...
then again you dont see specops units swimming free style, it mostly breast stroke they use, which should make it easier than freestyle swimming or anyother forms

wouldn't most specops have a life jacket or a flotation gear on them, seems like a waste of life if your going to sent a specops unit in without those floaters..
BTW i think the "million man swim" is suppose to mean how china's will invade taiwan (before when PLAN's sea life sucked) :confused:

[MIGleader]

umm we dont train with weights like 30 pounds.. we just do drills (http://www.mvm.org/workouts-drills.php) for like an hour, then just cardio for 30 mintues swimming no stoping back and forth... i seen and tried those weighted vested before, the university kids uses them (mostly 3-5 pounders); trust me if you can't swim proficiently enough... well you better have a life guard or two near by...
then again you dont see specops units swimming free style, it mostly breast stroke they use, which should make it easier than freestyle swimming or anyother forms

wouldn't most specops have a life jacket or a flotation gear on them, seems like a waste of life if your going to sent a specops unit in without those floaters..
BTW i think the "million man swim" is suppose to mean how china's will invade taiwan (before when PLAN's sea life sucked) :confused:

i wasnt referring to u!! i was talking about the soldiers that train for water swimming.

a life vest might have hinderance on the gear carried once on land. what they really need to invent is a bullet proof floatation vest.

as for "million man swim", certain people beilieved china would sent its soldiers, with backpaks of ammo, food, communications gear, a gun ...
not a single man would make it, especially in the 16 km taiwan strait.

edit:sry, there should be 0 after the 16...

[chinawhite]

the million man swim wasn't actualy the million man swim. ill explain in a PM.

the taiwan strait is over 100km

[Gollevainen]

I'm sure there is much more to discuss about chinese paratroopers than just SWIMMING...so perhaps a time to drift back to the topic, eh?

[Mr_C]

Yes.... swimming in the army suck. It really really sucks. They made me wear speedos!! My CO once offered me to be attached to some paratrooper regiment. I didn't feel like it so i told him to get stuffed... in a friendly way.

[sumdud]

I don't get it, why would paratroopers be on boats at all. Isn't that suppose to be the marines' job? It'll totally mess up things and lose the advantage.
They were never met for boats really. And I doubt paratroops come with boats.