Teeth of TZ----PLA's elite special force

[Red Guard]

there are 8 military districts in PLA, and each of them has its own elite special force squad. they used to use different patches to label themselves as well as different nicknames like northeast tiger, lightning and such. now they use the same patch, as a TZ, means TeZhong, "specialist" or some say it's TeZhen, as special recon, or TeZhan, as special warfare.
the patch is with a lightnining shapped "Z", on the dagger shapped T, with BD as the daggers handle, BD means troop.
http://www.kaisaking.com/kaisaking/bookpic/2005711823586604.jpg


now let's see some of the gears the use

http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_a722a1bc824685f.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_9bf94d669baf297.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_ef88b422b5beb5c.jpg

http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_c29c8c658a31bdf.jpg

[Red Guard]

http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_04a4688ac459a38.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_9c17b9c5f8b3aee.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_cb5a25bb04a0d45.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_33fcccc67859861.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_c8787533fa6e192.jpg

[Red Guard]

http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_744a343d6384d00.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_96f74e4ced36e06.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_58d80d09d1eb35a.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_28171b7ed9bdc23.jpg
http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_87b5bac19d8c46e.jpg

[Red Guard]

http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_051106/36_74200_4e6fffdab259da1.jpg

[crazyinsane105]

Hmmm....those guys still carry RPG's??? I thought they would carry something else like the FHJ-84 or the PF-89.

[Red Guard]

they have access to many weaponaries. it's very hard to tell what they do, they might just train on rpgs.....

[rommel]

To be honest, I'm a little bit disappointed.

-No Personnal Defence Anti-Armor weapon (something like a M72 LAW or AT4 Viper),
-The use of optical telescopic sight on assault rifle is not really a good choice, it's better a Reflex Red Dot
-no sign of laser pointer
-No sign of NVG or thermal sighting, they seems to use flares instead ??
-No Sign of protective equipment
-NO personnal radio and the radio post seem very low tech and old.
-No Sign of RIS on weapon

[RavenWing278]

i'll have to agree with rommel..what shown is pretty disappointing.
but just because they dont show it, doesnt mean they dont use it
they seem to have pretty good/modern small arms..but the rest, mentioned by rommel , they seem to lack

[Red Guard]

like a canadian recruiting officer told me. special force's main function is to go in somewhere find what the enemy is doing and coming back without no one knows about it. that's pretty true to chinese special force. their job is mostly about recon, as in many chinese folks' mind the best soldiers are the "recon soldiers". therefore those stuff you have mentioned are pretty useless to pla. on another hand, chinese army is still a very "after time" army. their motto is to not let the weaponaries fit to the personels, but to let the personels fit to the the weaponaries. therefore they use almost the same weaponaries with the regular soldiers and they have to make the job triple.
from my own point of view, you are just thinking in your western army way, we chinese think in the other way around. chairman mao said :" you have your own way of fighting the war, and i have mine."

[MIGleader]

To be honest, I'm a little bit disappointed.

-No Personnal Defence Anti-Armor weapon (something like a M72 LAW or AT4 Viper),
-The use of optical telescopic sight on assault rifle is not really a good choice, it's better a Reflex Red Dot
-no sign of laser pointer
-No sign of NVG or thermal sighting, they seems to use flares instead ??
-No Sign of protective equipment
-NO personnal radio and the radio post seem very low tech and old.
-No Sign of RIS on weapon

perhaps those thing are not allowed to be displayed in photographs. the pla has been developing some really nice, advanced gear recently and doesnt want the world to know. an upponent would thus underestimate the pla troops.

being fairly lightly armed and armored, i think these guys are scout troops. not the cream de crop

[utelore]

migleader, the teloscopic site is for longer ranges. the "red-dot/relex/aimpoint" site you are talking about is for closer ranges were getting a good site picture is not needed.as far as the other issues I agree. very very low tech stuff my police dept is better equiped than this....cheers ute.

[MIGleader]

perhaps no advanced equipment was displayed because these are merely pics of a training unit, or a unit about to engage in a small exercise. im sure the pla's most elite units would have many more toys than this.

[adeptitus]

migleader, the teloscopic site is for longer ranges. the "red-dot/relex/aimpoint" site you are talking about is for closer ranges were getting a good site picture is not needed.as far as the other issues I agree. very very low tech stuff my police dept is better equiped than this....cheers ute.

Your police department doesn't have RPG's. :p

But seriously, if there's a need for some specialized equipment, I'm sure they can afford to get it for a small special forces squad.

[utelore]

Yes, I dont think this is indecitive of the best the PRC can field for its SF units. I have seen pics that show PRC airborne units with sys simular to the U.S Land warrior program and such. these pic only tell a tale for those few men and not the whole.

[Red Guard]

Yes, I dont think this is indecitive of the best the PRC can field for its SF units. I have seen pics that show PRC airborne units with sys simular to the U.S Land warrior program and such. these pic only tell a tale for those few men and not the whole.

those were not airbornes. but i think i know which pic you are talking about. mostly those things are being tested on field with some other troops dressed like them.....

[rommel]

migleader, the teloscopic site is for longer ranges. the "red-dot/relex/aimpoint" site you are talking about is for closer ranges were getting a good site picture is not needed.as far as the other issues I agree. very very low tech stuff my police dept is better equiped than this....cheers ute.

well, ute, it was actullay me who said something about the scope and other system, not mig, I think that the telescopic sight is not good because first, it's good mainly for long range, second, it narrow your vision field when you are aiming with because you can't aim it with both eye unlike some low-intensity reflex/red dot, and third, the tele sight is on a Type 95 rifle, but the 95 should have similar performance to the M16 in term of range, but I rarely seen a telescopic sight on a M16 or a C7, because they just can't shoot to this kind of far with accuracy.

ike a canadian recruiting officer told me. special force's main function is to go in somewhere find what the enemy is doing and coming back without no one knows about it. that's pretty true to chinese special force. their job is mostly about recon, as in many chinese folks' mind the best soldiers are the "recon soldiers". therefore those stuff you have mentioned are pretty useless to pla. on another hand, chinese army is still a very "after time" army. their motto is to not let the weaponaries fit to the personels, but to let the personels fit to the the weaponaries. therefore they use almost the same weaponaries with the regular soldiers and they have to make the job triple.
from my own point of view, you are just thinking in your western army way, we chinese think in the other way around. chairman mao said :" you have your own way of fighting the war, and i have mine."

I totally agree with you, but what I mention lacking is what I think necessary, for exemple, the NVG, instead they show us a flare gun. If you attack with flare during night, the ennemy will be see you as well as you see him, the NVG are more "stealth".I don't need to re-explain my view about the sight. And radio, if your infantry team or squad don't have a good communication capability, how they could coordinate they action when they are 100m away of each other ??

So, it's true that I have the way of thinking of a western soldier (since I'm myself a canadian infantrymen) but I also think with the need of the soldier. Some need are universal, every soldier will agree.

[utelore]

sorry rommel, I thought it was mig when i posted....anyway I think the red-dot sight is great. I would use it for 50 to 200 meter targets. after that I think would would want a telescopic site. but that is just me. I also think Iron sites are just fine to. I think it is up to the individual warrior and what he likes and is confident with. I think for me if I was poping targets at 500 meters with my M16A2 or M4 I would like to have a Telescopic site. I am fairly confident I can also hit none moving targets at 500 meters with iron sites also.

[ahho]

Maybe the scout could use their gun as a binoc, also the telescopic for type-95 should not be a concern on what distance it is being used, maybe it just add some precision to it even at short range.

I think the flare are not for illuminating but for planes or choppers to know the exact location of troops where it may not be detectable. As you said, it is pretty dangerous

[Red Guard]

hey, rommel, did i sound like rude? if so, i am sorry, i didn't mean to be rude.
first about the NVGs, regular PLA personnels now are trained of using NVGs, you guys are not chinese so you don't go to chinese military forum, it was first seen by me as early as the 97. well, it's not very early for the americans, but that comfired we do use NVG for regular infantry divisions. but NVGs are too expensive for mess infantry troops, so i guess they just train on them and won't be issued until the war is here. and that thing, hehehe, sorry buddy, it's not a flare gun. i was stunned by you said flare, but i was on my way to school, so i didn't bother to look up. it's not a flare gun, it's a signal pistol. it....well...i could be one of the oldest equipment in PLA, and i think they didn't make any modern upgrade on that thing, it's just a piece of simple mechanism. i first seen that on the soviet WWII movie, if Aluka is here he probably saw it, it's called "liberation". that pistol is used to fire up a signal flare to the sky to direct the troops. mostly it's telling them to charge to such point or ..you know..signals ....it's not used to lighten up the field.....i am surprised you don't know that......
red dot is pretty much a piece of advanced equipment, i still don't really know the tech behind it. and i did see one of that thing was mounted on a 81 rifle, but i don't think the army are satisfied with that. chinese soldiers are very very very different from you guys, they don't think in the same way you do, and from your mind you would think they are crazy and strange to think in their way. hey, i was never served in the PLA, which i am expecting next summer, i guess once i did, i will give you an answer about that.
peace, comrade.

about the radio. i am not really a fan of radios, i want to get a set of those, i think that radio is called "silicon 2 watts", it's one of the oldest radio in the army, they have new stuff now, but PLA likes to keep the old gear around, they are just not showing and the squad radio, they do have that, it's made by mortorola ( forgot how to spell that).

[rommel]

hey, rommel, did i sound like rude? if so, i am sorry, i didn't mean to be rude.
first about the NVGs, regular PLA personnels now are trained of using NVGs, you guys are not chinese so you don't go to chinese military forum, it was first seen by me as early as the 97. well, it's not very early for the americans, but that comfired we do use NVG for regular infantry divisions. but NVGs are too expensive for mess infantry troops, so i guess they just train on them and won't be issued until the war is here. and that thing, hehehe, sorry buddy, it's not a flare gun. i was stunned by you said flare, but i was on my way to school, so i didn't bother to look up. it's not a flare gun, it's a signal pistol. it....well...i could be one of the oldest equipment in PLA, and i think they didn't make any modern upgrade on that thing, it's just a piece of simple mechanism. i first seen that on the soviet WWII movie, if Aluka is here he probably saw it, it's called "liberation". that pistol is used to fire up a signal flare to the sky to direct the troops. mostly it's telling them to charge to such point or ..you know..signals ....it's not used to lighten up the field.....i am surprised you don't know that......
red dot is pretty much a piece of advanced equipment, i still don't really know the tech behind it. and i did see one of that thing was mounted on a 81 rifle, but i don't think the army are satisfied with that. chinese soldiers are very very very different from you guys, they don't think in the same way you do, and from your mind you would think they are crazy and strange to think in their way. hey, i was never served in the PLA, which i am expecting next summer, i guess once i did, i will give you an answer about that.
peace, comrade.

about the radio. i am not really a fan of radios, i want to get a set of those, i think that radio is called "silicon 2 watts", it's one of the oldest radio in the army, they have new stuff now, but PLA likes to keep the old gear around, they are just not showing and the squad radio, they do have that, it's made by mortorola ( forgot how to spell that).

Oh, you know, flare can be shot by signal pistol too, basically, both are the same thing, it's only the cartrige that are different, or maybe different in the PLA because in the NATO, signal shot are a kind of color flare. The illumination flare is made of white magnesium basically and red signal of magnesium + a second chemical counpound to add some color, but it's the same kind of "bullet". A "flame" ball with a parachute. So a flare gun can fire as well some signal and a signal gun can fire as well flare (well, both are the same thing) Still, I can't know much about it since we use mortar for illumination and we have radio to give signals :D

Maybe the scout could use their gun as a binoc, also the telescopic for type-95 should not be a concern on what distance it is being used, maybe it just add some precision to it even at short range.

I think the flare are not for illuminating but for planes or choppers to know the exact location of troops where it may not be detectable. As you said, it is pretty dangerous


Well, the sight mounted on the Type 95 shown lower is a 4x, so it's not a 6x or 8x scope use on most NATO sniper rifle for 550m-800m target shooting, but still, I think that it's too "big" for a assault rifle, I can agree with utelore when he said the tele sight is good when you want to take out a target over 500m, but do most assault rifle don't have that kind of accuracy execept maybe the M16A2 because of his long barrel. And at short range, a telescopic sight is worst since it narrow your field of vision when you are aiming with. It's better a red dot/reflex

[Mr_C]

Ladies (if any) and Gentlemen, do not be too dissappointed for not seeing some fancy equipment in the pics. Remember that when u train or even when u go out field. U only carry the stuff that u need for that particular operation or training exercise. U rarely carry around with u everything that is available to u in the armoury. In the Aussie land we only get things like night aiming attachments, body armour, night vision stuff etc when u train for a deployment and u only get that stuff issued when u actually go away for the deployment.
Another thing that i know about the PLA is that they would also like their soldiers to not rely too heavily on various technologies to complete a task. Although a peice of technology can help u out, heavy reliance on technology is also a weakness.
Also sometimes its best not to carry so much extra stuff around because it is simply a pain in the arse.

Oh and yes, personally i would like a scope on my rifle.

[Red Guard]

yes. the signal gun uses mostly either red or green signals. and i haven't seen them use mortor launched flare shell for like....a long time. it's pretty much like a WWII trick. PLA was famous for its night fighting ability during both sino japanese war and civil war, there are some units called "night tiger" regiment and so. you know what? they just follow each other in the dark without any NVGs or flashlight. one thing they use to keep up is they put white towel on everyone's arm. :)

[rommel]

Ladies (if any) and Gentlemen, do not be too dissappointed for not seeing some fancy equipment in the pics. Remember that when u train or even when u go out field. U only carry the stuff that u need for that particular operation or training exercise. U rarely carry around with u everything that is available to u in the armoury. In the Aussie land we only get things like night aiming attachments, body armour, night vision stuff etc when u train for a deployment and u only get that stuff issued when u actually go away for the deployment.
Another thing that i know about the PLA is that they would also like their soldiers to not rely too heavily on various technologies to complete a task. Although a peice of technology can help u out, heavy reliance on technology is also a weakness.
Also sometimes its best not to carry so much extra stuff around because it is simply a pain in the arse.

Oh and yes, personally i would like a scope on my rifle.

Well, My C7A1 always have a C79 reflex scope (look on my avatar) :D

Some items I mention should always be carried in exercise, like radio, and recon force surely need radio (believe me, I'm myself a recon) But I agree with you of carrying to much...

[MIGleader]

Ladies (if any) and Gentlemen, do not be too dissappointed for not seeing some fancy equipment in the pics. Remember that when u train or even when u go out field. U only carry the stuff that u need for that particular operation or training exercise. U rarely carry around with u everything that is available to u in the armoury. In the Aussie land we only get things like night aiming attachments, body armour, night vision stuff etc when u train for a deployment and u only get that stuff issued when u actually go away for the deployment.
Another thing that i know about the PLA is that they would also like their soldiers to not rely too heavily on various technologies to complete a task. Although a peice of technology can help u out, heavy reliance on technology is also a weakness.
Also sometimes its best not to carry so much extra stuff around because it is simply a pain in the arse.

Oh and yes, personally i would like a scope on my rifle.

i dont see a mission that wouldnt involve body armor. so where is it? pics and reports from other chinese defence sites have clearly shown that the pla has begun the issuing of armor to its most elite army and marine units. and since these guys are "elite", where's the armor? or are these soldiers merely students?

[Red Guard]

army cadidates bare the red shoulder board, so they are not.
do you see navy seal wears body armour???? comparing to bullet proofing, speed and quick reaction is much more important for special forces. special recon units don't even wear helmets.

[Mr_C]

Well, My C7A1 always have a C79 reflex scope (look on my avatar) :D

Some items I mention should always be carried in exercise, like radio, and recon force surely need radio (believe me, I'm myself a recon) But I agree with you of carrying to much...

Agree with u about the radio. But have u ever thought about maybe the radio can be dangerous coz the enemy might somehow pick up ur radio emissions and become aware of ur presence.... hmm what do u think?

[Azn boy]

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/China/Overview.htm

China: Special Operations Forces of the PLA

Highlights

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) formed its "first special mission, quick reaction unit" in the Guangzhou Military Region (MR) during the mid- to late 1980s. Over the next decade, this type of unit would evolve and proliferate to every MR in China. There were two primary reasons for this evolution. First, the PLA was shifting its doctrine from the "People's War" to fighting a "Local War Under High-Technology Conditions." The Chinese believe their next war will be a short, fast-paced conflict on their periphery rather than a protracted war of attrition on friendly terrain. Secondly, the PLA was impressed by the capabilities of American and Coalition special operations forces (SOFs) during the Persian Gulf War. The war prompted the Chinese to accelerate the formation of modern, professional SOFs capable of providing the PLA with timely reconnaissance and direct action (DA) capabilities.
Discussion

There is some confusion as to what the PLA considers to be "special" forces and how they compare to U.S. SOFs. The U.S. Armed Forces define special operations as actions "conducted by specially organized, trained, and equipped military and paramilitary forces to achieve military, political, economic, or psychological objectives by nonconventional means in hostile, denied, or politically sensitive areas." SOF units are characterized as being technology-intensive and their members as being experts in their fields.

China's SOFs appear to be focussed on special reconnaissance (SR) and DA missions; in addition, there are reports of SOF units participating as opposing forces during exercises. The mission of SR is to gain information of national or theater-level significance about the enemy, weather, and terrain behind enemy lines: e.g., the location of enemy command posts; reserves; weapons of mass destruction; key weapons systems; logistic sites; possible river-crossing sites; avenues of approach; and targeting data, especially for precision weapons systems. Chinese SOFs may also have reconnaissance and security force roles in airborne operations, as well as providing terminal guidance for precision-guided munitions.

DA missions are "short-duration strikes and other small-scale offensive activities conducted primarily by" SOFs. The PLA's SOFs practice raids on vital positions, rescuing prisoners, and capturing valuable enemy personnel. Targets for these activities are likely to include enemy command posts, airfields, bridges, weapons of mass destruction, and key weapons systems, such as air-defense sites.

The Chinese use the phrases "special forces dadui" and "special reconnaissance dadui" when they refer to their SOFs. The term "dadui" denotes a military unit approximately the size of a regiment; it is roughly equivalent to a U.S. Army Special Forces Group. These units are likely to have over 1000 personnel assigned to them, divided among approximately three battalions. The number of SOF teams within each battalion, as well as the size of the teams, vary because of the missions they perform. The teams range in size from two-man units used for SR to reinforced companies used in DA missions.

Chinese SOFs are equipped with the best equipment the PLA can field. If they follow the pattern used by SOFs of other nations, they use standard and modified versions of the equipment designed for general-purpose forces to meet their unique mission requirements. In addition, they probably are familiar with foreign individual and squad weapons.

Chinese SOF units are reported to have various types of specialized equipment, including night-vision goggles (NVGs), low-light-level television (LLLTV) systems, powered parachutes (PPCs), global positioning systems (GPSs), and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). An LLLTV system can be used for day/night surveillance, target acquisition, fire control, fire adjustment, target identification, and target tracking. The PPC, called by the Chinese the "world's lightest flying device," was fielded to the SOFs in 1996. It is capable of self-powered take-off and landing in very short distances, which will greatly enhance an SOF unit's infiltration and exfiltration capabilities. The PPC is capable of carrying a soldier and a limited amount of gear at an approximate rate of 18 km to 35 km per hour. The air-cooled, two-stroke engine operates on unleaded gasoline and can fly for 2 hours on one tank of gas, for a flight range of 45 km. The benefits of the PPC are as follows:
It can maneuver and land in restricted terrain.


It is lightweight and compact for easy transport.


Its engine makes little noise (comparable to a lawn mower) and can be turned off for glide mode.


The flyer needs no assistance for assembly, take-off, or landing.

The GPS is a handheld navigational system that can pinpoint the user's location anywhere in the world to within 10 to 15 meters. UAVs are small, remote-controlled (or preprogrammed) aircraft that are used for reconnaissance and surveillance. These vehicles can carry:
Aerial photogrammetry cameras.


Video cameras (with real-time downlink).


Infrared linescanner.


Panoramic cameras.


LLLTV camera with zoom lens.

These vehicles are capable of performing their missions for 2 hours out to a range of 100 km. It is likely that a specialized subunit handles the UAVs, since they would require a considerable amount of technical and field training owing to the high-tech nature of the systems.

PLA SOFs do not possess their own aviation assets. They reportedly coordinate closely with Air Force, Navy, and Army aviation units. This could pose problems when the SOF unit needs to deploy in a specific manner and the pilots and/or aircraft assigned to the mission are inadequate to the task. SOF units are known to use helicopters and the YUN-5 fixed-wing aircraft in training for their missions.

Chinese SOFs, like their counterparts around the world, appear to emphasize superior physical fitness and small-arms proficiency in their soldiers. All PLA SOF units are probably trained in martial arts and airborne operations. Elements of each unit are likely to have specialized training in one or more of the following areas: UAVs, amphibious operations, demolitions, communications, computers, or foreign languages.
Conclusions

The Chinese have come to realize the important role of professional, well-equipped, and highly trained SOFs on the modern battlefield. The PLA has fielded SOF regiments into each of their MRs and will continue to prepare them for "Local War Under High-Technology Conditions." Even if the Chinese are unable to match the West technologically, their SOFs will still surpass those of most of their neighbors.

if you post an article, you have to give your own opinion now, so please edit your post and add on what you think of the article.