martial law declared

[utelore]

Martial Law has been declared in New Orleans. Federal Troops and National Guard entering various areas to prevent the sudden outbreak of lawlessness

[Endymion]

Good and I hope they riflebutt any asshole looter trying to prey on the situation.

[MIGleader]

yes, ive heard of the looting there. but i dont think they can catch many peeps in all that rubble and storm.

[adeptitus]

With all that water, I have to think a lot of merchandise in the stores are already damaged. No point in looting a big screen TV that's been under water.

I lived through the Los Angeles riot of 1992 and saw some very stupid things. There was this vending machine that had been burnt inside a building. Some guys dragged it out and were trying to hammer it open to get the coins. There was another incident (saw on TV) where some guys chained the back of their truck to an ATM machine and tried to pull it out. It took the rear bumper off the truck and they kept going -- leaving the rear bumper, complete with license plate attached, behind.

[utelore]

CNN is now reporting "hundreds perhaps thousands dead" also armed bands are roaming and stealing. shootouts with police have also been reported.

[MIGleader]

this is how people take advantage of the whether...

[Neko]

If they're taking food from the stores they opened, to take perishables that the FDA won't allow to be sold, in order to feed and water themselves and their familes, I don't believe it is then looting in the traditional lawless sense.

[rob_net]

looting in new orleans

no cash in atm's , cash in your pockets only for 2 days (I think) and nobody selling groceries, what do you think about this?

is crazy

[utelore]

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR......The low paid new orleans police which makes less than 30 thousand to start is now being seen looting walmarts. That is a discrace :mad:

[FriedRiceNSpice]

If only more natural disasters hit the US... Maybe the US economy would go plummeting and the US government will have to allocate half the military budget for disaster relief. It would allow the PLA to catch up if such disasters continue for a decade or so... It would also mean a very lame decade for me though.

[utelore]

If only more natural disasters hit the US... Maybe the US economy would go plummeting and the US government will have to allocate half the military budget for disaster relief. .

Why would you wish more natural disasters on innocent people??

[Endymion]

Because he's ignorant?

Way to wish such things on innocent people so your precious fuckin PLA can catch up. Really reflects nicely on China.

[utelore]

I wonder friedrice......have you ever smelled a dead person or viewed the death of a small child and then see what it does to the parents of that child?

[utelore]

ANYWAY....to keep this post on track...28,000 U.S troops are now deploying to the AO. More than 60 military helos are also being deployed. I wonder how long it will take the u.s media to start saying things like.....If only the 101st or 82nd could be deployed to New Orleans instead of OIF and OEF.

[WebMaster]

Kids. :rolleyes:

When "bashing the US" party is over, please send me a PM so I can reopen this thread.

China today is busy trying to tell the world that it's a peace loving country. That it is open and can live in peace with other nations. But here you are, on CHINESE strategic defence forum bashing other countries. Think about it for a minute, how does that reflect upon China and Chinese people in general? What happened in US deep south is a terrible terrible thing, and I wish that NO BODY goes through that. Think about losing your HOUSE, your loved ones and your everything in just matter of hours.

If you have something against US government, please feel free to counter their policies and arguments in a RESPECTFUL manner. Or if you want to go at each other and throw insults, go ahead - since we want you to have some "fun." But, I am not going to tolerate bashing another country since that country has just experienced a terrible natural diaster where innocent people have died and millions are left without any homes. It'll be nice if some folks grow up and discuss defence rather than politics on these forums.

[Dongfeng]

Following the flood in the late 1990s in northeast and south China, the PLA formed some dedicated disaster relief forces. These troops are composed of engineer, bridging, and other support units.

Equipped with special equipment such as pontoon bridge, mechanical bridge, boats, etc, these units are specifically designed to deal with flooding as well as other natural disasters. They have high readiness and can be deployed in very short time.

Not only would this help reduce the human and material losses in time of crisis, it is also a very good method to practice these units’ rapid response/deployment capabilities. After all, there is no much difference between building a pontoon bridge for disaster and for a military operation.

[utelore]

Yes Dongfeng, that would be great if the u.s had that kind of asset such as specialised disaster relief forces. I for one when I served recieved no kind of training for that kind of issue. I believe the army national guard is more fit for that kind of issue. I also think the u.s should seek the help of the Dutch with the engieniering of Dikes and leavys.

Roaming bands are now taking shots at relief helo landing near the super dome. You see if the u.s had anything close to a "third world" state it would be La. very very poor. I dont think people relize just how bad things are down there. complete lawlessness . VERY VERY low professional police department.

[PiSigma]

if only all the surviviors spend their time and energy on helping others, and not loot and try to slow down the rescue missions, things would go a lot smoother. This is a natural diaster, everyone involved in it is a victim. US should start asking for some internation help on this, it will definitely speed up the rescue process a lot with more man-power and specially trained people.

[BKulan]

this natural disaster is really a terrible thing to have happened. I feel really sorry for the victims and i hope that the pumping of water out of the city soon can begin and that the looters try to do something to help the situation instead of shooting at each others and vandalizing.

but it's still a good example of the fact that even the most rich and powerful countries in the world can do nothing to stop mother nature when she's decided going on a rampage. also the lawlessness gives a good picture of what would happen if the world economy crashed completely.

i understand this is a sensitive issue and i hope no one take offence at anything i have said previously in this post.

[Dongfeng]

This natural disaster is a great tragedy. However, the delay in post-disaster relief also reflects how unprepared the local government, federal government, and the U.S. military were in this kind of scenario.

When Katrina was close to the U.S. coast, which was forecasted days ago, shouldn’t the military and local national guards get prepared for possible damages and relief operations? The U.S. armed forces is regarded as the world No.1. In this kind of situation, you would expect to see thousands of troops moving to the disaster area, and hundreds of helicopters dropping food/drink water and rescuing people surrounded by flood. You would expect to see U.S. Army soldiers deployed on street restoring orders and stopping looters; You would also expect to see army engineers building refugee camps and repairing bridges and highways.

Unfortunately, none of these was happening :( . All I saw are couple of police officers with their shotguns trying to stop looters hopelessly, with a handful coast guard helicopters. Limited national guards arrived almost two days after the disaster. Where are the military? Surely they not all deployed in Iraq, are they?

[utelore]

It takes a great deal of effort to prepare and deploy a force of 40,000 . you simply can not do it in one week. especialy when you look at new orleans. there are two roads that lead into the city which both were destroyed. for a period of time only helo borne units could get into the city. you then have to look a safty for the first responders. new orleans has heavy crime with many criminal games that are armed to the teeth. these gangs are preying on everybody.

also this force could not have been forward deployed BEFORE the incident due to that very force would be damaged by the winds and flood. I also think much of the blame should be given to the city of new orleans city government which is corupt and poorly run. I dont think you can blame the Federal government at all. The military is doing the best it can.

[MIGleader]

not good enough. the military should know the area is often strike at that area, so the should have troops stationed there.

[utelore]

migleader, I am sorry but you are incorrect. First responders cannot respond if they to become victims. You should take a emergency managment course to become better informed.

[Dongfeng]

I once spoke to a PLA officer. He told me that each year during flood season, the division he was serving would form a special rapid response unit that is ready to be deployed to a possible disaster area in very short time. They may not have any helicopter like the U.S. army, but they do have plenty of motor boats that can travel easily in the flooding area. It is a common practice for most of the PLA ground forces arcoss the country.

It is still difficult for me to understand why it took so long to deploy troops in New Orlean. As I recall, a U.S. Army Infantry Division can deploy about 50 helicopters (UH-60 and UH-1, not including gunships such as AH-64 and AH-1) within its own order of battle. An airborne division (such as 101st) can deploy over 100. Also don't they have any boats?

[utelore]

Dongfeng, The 101st is a elite combat unit which has many of its assets like Helos deployed on combat operations around the world. the 82nd is in the same boat as it to is deployed fighting the war on terror. also because of certain legal issues federal combat units cannot be used the same way the "nasty girls" :) (thats the national guard) can be used inside of the country. also if say some gang or group of people attacked the 82nd or 101st you would have many civs killed. please remember many army combat units have been engaged with enemy for the past 4 years and are BIG TIME SHOOTERS FIRST. Many inside of the army (me too) believe that combat units are made to "kill people" plain and simple. They are degraded by conducting such operations as the one the national guard is playing in LA. Israel is seeing the degrading of many of their combat units because of security dutie inside of gaza and the west bank dealing with civs throwing stones and such.......cheers ute.

[utelore]

ALSO Dongfeng, I should say "yes you are correct". the PLA most likley does this kind of thing alot more than the U.S national guard does. The PLA is better at this flooding stuff than we are.......BUT we are learning from our mistakes and will get better at it...I hope......cheers ute.

[utelore]

I have observed some things with the LA national guard. they to seem to be somewhat unprofessional in apperence. I have observed many soldiers without any kind of head cover IE Kevlar, cap or booney while just manning check points and such. I have see very faded almost unserviceable woodland camo uniforms while at the same time having desert boots. I understand that the LA NGs are not regular army however they should have the apperance and military bearing that is required from reg army units......just my thoughts.

[Dongfeng]

yes, I forgot about the complex legal issues in using the federal army within the U.S. homeland. Never lived in a real federal country :o

It would be useful to provide the national guards with more training and equipment for "low-intensity" operations such as disaster relief, and in some cases, law enforcement. In this way, the "real" military units can concentrate on "high-intensity" combat operations.

I think probably the trouble with the national guards is that they need some time to be mobilised, even though some of its units are ready for deployment.

I agree that the governments of China and USA do have different views on their armed forces. To the U.S. government, the armed force is simply a machine to kill, while to the Chinese government, the armed force is also a pool of manpower for a variety of things--no wonder they have to keep 2.2 million men there :cool:

[FriedRiceNSpice]

In China, does regular PLA, reservists, or special units conduct the flood control and aid operations?

[Dongfeng]

In China, does regular PLA, reservists, or special units conduct the flood control and aid operations?
They all do

[utelore]

Well looks like the 82nd will go to LA after all. Also looks like elements of my old unit The First Cav Divison will also go.

[sumdud]

What I don't understand is what took them so long to respond. They saw it, 175.

Even if they can't use the army, they had the national guard. They could had them ready.

As for the looting, I wouldn't mess with a flooded city.