Marines

[xede]

Does China have a "Marines" division like Taiwan or US? or do they incorporate naval soldiers/amphilibious troops with the PLA?

[MIGleader]

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/marinecorps.asp
please do some reaserch before asking questions. almost everyone knows about chinas marine buildup near taiwan.

well, i was planning to edit the post myself, but it appears rommel has already done that

[Red Guard]

give the guy a break, just politly tell him
Yes, there is one.

[xede]

ok..u know..a simple "please search" would've done it....But I guess almost EVERYONE knows about Chinese Marines. I come here to learn more because not EVERYONE knows about Chinese Defense or at least have accurate information about it. You know, in the US military...they don't show that there is a Chinese Marine Corp...they show as PLA being sent on ships. So, of course I had to ask.

[swimmerXC]

ok..u know..a simple "please search" would've done it....But I guess almost EVERYONE knows about Chinese Marines. I come here to learn more because not EVERYONE knows about Chinese Defense or at least have accurate information about it. You know, in the US military...they don't show that there is a Chinese Marine Corp...they show as PLA being sent on ships. So, of course I had to ask.

hey no problem we forgive you :D
just scan around some of these sites if you have some questions about PRC military, cheers
SinoDefence (http://www.sinodefence.com/)
Chinese Military Aviation (http://mil.jschina.com.cn/huitong/index.html)
Global Security (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/index.html)
they are all organized pretty well, although globalsecurity hardy every updates, i would say CMA or Sino is the best they both update often
o yea welcome abroad

[Su-27 Pilot]

Does China have a "Marines" division like Taiwan or US? or do they incorporate naval soldiers/amphilibious troops with the PLA?

Its called "Marine Corps" under the Navy branch. What is the main difference between US Marines and PLAN Marines ??

[swimmerXC]

Its called "Marine Corps" under the Navy branch. What is the main difference between US Marines and PLAN Marines ??

the PLA Marines are less numbered, they dont control an "airforce" like the US counterpart, think of the PLA marines as equal to US naval specops ( in terms of trainning and doctrine) they are like the navy seals :china:

[FriedRiceNSpice]

the PLA Marines are less numbered, they dont control an "airforce" like the US counterpart, think of the PLA marines as equal to US naval specops ( in terms of trainning and doctrine) they are like the navy seals :china:

That good!?!?!? I dont think so. More like US Marine commandos or Royal Marine commandos, maybe. The Frogmen are like navy seals (but even better).

[BrotherofSnake]

That good!?!?!? I dont think so. More like US Marine commandos or Royal Marine commandos, maybe. The Frogmen are like navy seals (but even better).
The USMC doesn't have a commando unit.

The Marine Core's special operations unit is called Force Recon, they are not part of the United States Special Operations Command (SOCOM) though.

[Su-27 Pilot]

Any info on the PLAN Shore defence corp ??

[MIGleader]

Any info on the PLAN Shore defence corp ??
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/coastaldefence.asp
not that its really needed nowadays...

[Red Guard]

not really. USMC is the forth force of the US armed force, it's directly under the command of the nation along with army, navy, and air force. chinese marine is under the command of navy hq, it belongs to navy. as chinese force includes army, navy, air force and 2nd artillery. USMC could be called on directly by the president without the allowance of the senate,(i suppose that's because they want a fast movement at an emergency?) that's why we could see USMC at all of the wars of US, they are the banner of the force. unlike USMC, the main, or the only purpose chinese marine is set up is to land on the enemy beach destroy the beach defence, set up ports and wait for the reinforcement of the army. they certainly don't have an air force, and i suppose they won't have choppers in marine either.

[bd popeye]

The USMC doesn't have a commando unit.

The Marine Core's special operations unit is called Force Recon, they are not part of the United States Special Operations Command (SOCOM) though.

Actually the USMC was recently ordered to establish a Special Ops Unit to fall under SOCOM.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20051102-9999-1n2marines.html

If the PLA sets up their Marines as intended..a quick striking force they will be quite capable I'm sure.

The USMC is intended to be a light fast moving force of attack. It was not intended to occupy countries. That's the Army's job.

[MIGleader]

not really. USMC is the forth force of the US armed force, it's directly under the command of the nation along with army, navy, and air force. chinese marine is under the command of navy hq, it belongs to navy. as chinese force includes army, navy, air force and 2nd artillery. USMC could be called on directly by the president without the allowance of the senate,(i suppose that's because they want a fast movement at an emergency?) that's why we could see USMC at all of the wars of US, they are the banner of the force. unlike USMC, the main, or the only purpose chinese marine is set up is to land on the enemy beach destroy the beach defence, set up ports and wait for the reinforcement of the army. they certainly don't have an air force, and i suppose they won't have choppers in marine either.

wouldnt that allow the president to use the marines as a private army, directly under his command? isnt that forbidden? so what would would happen if the presidnt decided to use the marines to take over the countryu completely?

[chopsticks]

wouldnt that allow the president to use the marines as a private army, directly under his command? isnt that forbidden? so what would would happen if the presidnt decided to use the marines to take over the countryu completely?

err i think what he meant was that USMC is just treated as equal to US army, Us airforce, and Usn..

[Red Guard]

ja, what i mean is marine is the forth force of US armed force, ALONG with army, navy and air force.
well, i am not american, so i wouldn't know, but from my reading many years back then, marine could take order from president directly, while army, navy and air force have to be mobilized by the order of senate. so i suppose, it's like, if there is an emergency happened somewhere in the world, there is no time for the people in senate to TALK ABOUT it, the president just send in the marines to take care the event.

[MIGleader]

ja, what i mean is marine is the forth force of US armed force, ALONG with army, navy and air force.
well, i am not american, so i wouldn't know, but from my reading many years back then, marine could take order from president directly, while army, navy and air force have to be mobilized by the order of senate. so i suppose, it's like, if there is an emergency happened somewhere in the world, there is no time for the people in senate to TALK ABOUT it, the president just send in the marines to take care the event.

exactly. so if a president wanted to become a dictator, he could simply use the marines to take over the capitol?

[rice]

ja, what i mean is marine is the forth force of US armed force, ALONG with army, navy and air force.

the fifth, the US coast guard

[Red Guard]

migleader, are you american??? don't you know that american constitution(bad spelling, not in mood to look for dic) specificly said that no american forces shall be used against national problems???? all us forces, as army, air force, navy, marine and national guards can't be used in the states affaire, that's what i learnt IN CHINA. if i am wrong, correct me.

[Gollevainen]

Also everyone, cut the bullshit about US marines...and concerate on chinese related issues....

[MIGleader]

migleader, are you american??? don't you know that american constitution(bad spelling, not in mood to look for dic) specificly said that no american forces shall be used against national problems???? all us forces, as army, air force, navy, marine and national guards can't be used in the states affaire, that's what i learnt IN CHINA. if i am wrong, correct me.

your right. im chinese, but i live in america. but The national guard is defnitly supposed to protect and help the country. hence its name. but apparently bush prefers to use them in iraq, and ignore new orleans.

as for the topic...he asked if china had marines, and we gave him an answer. thread ended.

[Wingman]

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/marinecorps.asp
About those amphibious guys in the bottom pic

What gun is that they're carrying? It looks sort of like Type 95 but then again it doesn't... Is it a waterproof gun that is able to fire from underwater?

[Red Guard]

nope, they are 95s. if you see a weird looking 95 nowadays in army, it could be the plastic training 95s. i am expecting to get one 81 next year when i go back to china, but the problem is, i don't know if i could get it to canada....does anyone know?

[Wingman]

Oh yeah they are 95s. I saw it wrong, I thought the magazine on one of them is before the trigger, turns out to be some flappy thing on his wrist.

But are Type 95s resistant to getting wet? Are there any versions that can fire from underwater?

[Red Guard]

resistant to getting wet? i think every gun does that, doesn't it??? it's metal, so....the water jus...slip..off...the..surface....what do you mean by getting wet.......anyway, to my knowledge, chinese special force's underwater rifle/pistol was never offically publiced, so, as far as i could tell you, the rifle/gun they use is very similar to the soviet ones, which i forgot the name, if you ever played delta force 2, it's the underwater rifle in that, i forgot the name, i saw it somewhere we did copy that for many years.

[MIGleader]

Oh yeah they are 95s. I saw it wrong, I thought the magazine on one of them is before the trigger, turns out to be some flappy thing on his wrist.

But are Type 95s resistant to getting wet? Are there any versions that can fire from underwater?

i dont think a gun can actually fire from underwater, because the entire barrel would be full of water. if there was an airpoket, the force bullet trying to force its way out would damage the muzzle. plus the round would have difficulty ejecting the round underwater. almost all guns mowadays are waterproof to a degree, and really reliable ones like the ak can fire after complete submerging in water. but no guns actually fires from underwater...the concept is much like a barracuda super speed torpedo that require stregnthened firing tubes.

[rommel]

i dont think a gun can actually fire from underwater, because the entire barrel would be full of water. if there was an airpoket, the force bullet trying to force its way out would damage the muzzle. plus the round would have difficulty ejecting the round underwater. almost all guns mowadays are waterproof to a degree, and really reliable ones like the ak can fire after complete submerging in water. but no guns actually fires from underwater...the concept is much like a barracuda super speed torpedo that require stregnthened firing tubes.

Well, the russians have the APS rifle (Avtomat Podvodnij Spetsialnij, don't know what it mean and i might have some mistake in the spelling) that fire a 5.66mm x 120mm long dart, this weapon was use by the Russian Combat divers.. There was also the Hecker und Koch project, named the P11 underwater pistol, which tou can see one in the movie Tomb Raider 2: the Cradle of Life. The P11 fire a dart too, it's a 7,62mm x 36mm. This pistol is use by German, British and US combat divers.

Well, the rifle in the picture are Type-95, they are maybe resistant to water, or if there were not, there's a old and very simple technique used in the army to prevent your gun to get wet, you just wrapped it correctly in a plastic bag, and when you come out of the water, you can just tare down the plastic to use your gun.

[Wingman]

Yeah that's what I was thinking of. That submachinegun from Delta Force 2 that could fire when submerged. Forgot what it was called but since the it's supposed to be a simulation, I don't think the gun is fictional.

[adeptitus]

Well, the russians have the APS rifle (Avtomat Podvodnij Spetsialnij, don't know what it mean and i might have some mistake in the spelling) that fire a 5.66mm x 120mm long dart, this weapon was use by the Russian Combat divers.. There was also the Hecker und Koch project, named the P11 underwater pistol, which tou can see one in the movie Tomb Raider 2: the Cradle of Life. The P11 fire a dart too, it's a 7,62mm x 36mm. This pistol is use by German, British and US combat divers.


Here's a good page on the APS rifle:
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as69-e.htm

Video avail here:
http://warfare.ru/?catid=275&linkid=1826

Ammo:
http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2468&catid=339

[Vytautas]

I wonder how could somone practically use this weapon?Fire it from underwater?I see no other use for this monster.

[MIGleader]

i dont think most gun fight occur from underwater...and a gun specially designed to fire underwater would definilty have to sacrifice performnace one way or another. there are not strategic assests underwater to fight over with infantry, so the guns a dud. a decent waterproof gun will do fine. if u want an undwater gun, might as well use a crossbow...

[Wingman]

It could be useful, if it had a scope that is long and can protrude out of the water (so you can see land from below water using the scope) or if it's periscope-ish. Then you can fire at land targets FROM underwater and nobody would see it coming because of the reflection of water. Imagine patrolling one day and suddenly bullets start flying out of the water at you? :confused: :eek:

[MIGleader]

It could be useful, if it had a scope that is long and can protrude out of the water (so you can see land from below water using the scope) or if it's periscope-ish. Then you can fire at land targets FROM underwater and nobody would see it coming because of the reflection of water. Imagine patrolling one day and suddenly bullets start flying out of the water at you? :confused: :eek:

but the angles simply dont wrk out...how could u hit someone on land if u fire from a concealed position underwater? you qould have to raise the gun out of the water and postion it first. besides, they would shoot back. and bullets are lethat underwater.

[Bohemond]

Actually, most bullets fragment when hitting the water if they are high velocity such as military units would use...pistol rounds dont fragment but they dont travel far. The underwater weapons mentioned by earlier posters work by actually forcing air ahead of them so that they actually do not go through the water.

[RavenWing278]

but the angles simply dont wrk out...how could u hit someone on land if u fire from a concealed position underwater? you qould have to raise the gun out of the water and postion it first. besides, they would shoot back. and bullets are lethat underwater.

tests have shown that rifle rounds break up after entering the water at an angle of 30 degrees or lower. at this angle , you only have to be below 1.5ft to escape the round.
on a program called myth busters in the US, they tested guns ranging from m1 garands, 12 gouge shot guns to the m95 sniper rifle
you only have to be below 2.5ft of water to be safe from the latter. i think you can check it at the myth busters website..forgot the URL

[MIGleader]

tests have shown that rifle rounds break up after entering the water at an angle of 30 degrees or lower. at this angle , you only have to be below 1.5ft to escape the round.
on a program called myth busters in the US, they tested guns ranging from m1 garands, 12 gouge shot guns to the m95 sniper rifle
you only have to be below 2.5ft of water to be safe from the latter. i think you can check it at the myth busters website..forgot the URL

damn...ive been watching to much tv. on "the italian job", some gy=uy had an ak and fired under water...never trust hollywood. but still, an underwater gun has got to be a bad idea. especially when it comes to how it might perform on land.

[rommel]

NOW, PLEASE GET BACK TO THE CHINESE MARINES !!!!!

[MIGleader]

NOW, PLEASE GET BACK TO THE CHINESE MARINES !!!!!
as u wish.

so, lets start compiling a list of equipment used by the chinese marines
the type 63a amphibious tank
type 95 rifle
Z-8 Naval Helicopter
Type 072-III Large Landing Ship
Type 072-II (Yuting Class) Large Landing Ship
Type 724 Air Cushion Landing Craft
Type 722-II Air Cushion Landing Craft
Type 98 (PF-98) 120mm anti-tank rocket
and a large variety of the assault ships and guns we dont know
maybe the marines will star using the QJY-88, 5.8 mm Heavy Machine Gun in the future as well.

anything to add?

[Red Guard]

assault boat
which is a wood boat with a mortor at the back......

[PiSigma]

wood boat?? i always thought that the marines got inflatible boats with motors. and i'm hoping marines get their own air wing, having their own air projection is always better than asking the navy or air force boys to do their work for them.

[MIGleader]

assault boat
which is a wood boat with a mortor at the back......

such as the higgens boat which performed very well in WW2. better than any "steel" boat. dont underestimate them, especially in large numbers.

the marines definitly need their own air wing, but as of now, china has few aircraft that can perform the close support role needed. its possible the a future version of the jh-7A(b?) will serve that role. or maybe chian will embark on its own joint strike fighter program.

red one...redcastle 123. no wonder why u got banned in the old forum

[sumdud]

You guys know what kind of vehicle is being ejected here?
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/image.asp?filename=marinecorps_07&captions=The+Marine+Corps+amphibious+armoured+pers onnel+carriers+in+exercise++
And anyone notice the newly fielded LCAC in the back?!
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/image.asp?filename=marinecorps_04&captions=Marines+arrive+at+the+landing+beach+by+am phibious+tanks+and+air+cushion+landing+craft
(It's been around for a long time), keep forgeting to ask though.:rolleyes:
The assault boats have mortar?
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/image.asp?filename=marinecorps_03&captions=PLA+Marines+reaching+enemy+beach+by+high-speed+assault+boats
Can't see them.....

As for the gun, just keep the old conventional rifle.......
There's no point.
You can't shoot back to the enemy anyway.
-----------------
PS- redone is not redcastle123
redone was here before you came, MiGLeader.
Redcastle123 is stonewind.

[Red Guard]

You guys know what kind of vehicle is being ejected here?
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/image.asp?filename=marinecorps_07&captions=The+Marine+Corps+amphibious+armoured+pers onnel+carriers+in+exercise++
And anyone notice the newly fielded LCAC in the back?!
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/image.asp?filename=marinecorps_04&captions=Marines+arrive+at+the+landing+beach+by+am phibious+tanks+and+air+cushion+landing+craft
(It's been around for a long time), keep forgeting to ask though.:rolleyes:
The assault boats have mortar?
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/image.asp?filename=marinecorps_03&captions=PLA+Marines+reaching+enemy+beach+by+high-speed+assault+boats
Can't see them.....

As for the gun, just keep the old conventional rifle.......
There's no point.
You can't shoot back to the enemy anyway.
-----------------
PS- redone is not redcastle123
redone was here before you came, MiGLeader.
Redcastle123 is stonewind.


1.the vehcile is type 63 with float box device. it's common type 63 APC with one angled box on the front and another one on the rear, both boxes are empty which could keep the type 63 float on the surfaces, and it also has a motor and the back to propell it in the water.
2. not familiar with LCACs, rumour says PLAN bought some russian ones and see how things go, and we did have LCACs ourselves, but, i guess it's not a big part of the landing process. since military co operation with the russians had gone wild at the last a few years, they did consider some new processes in the old type. but, so far, nothing significtion about the marines yet.
3.must be my typo, motor, not mortar, sorry...... the boat used by the marine could be aluminum alloy too.

who is redone? are you guys referring me? i am not anyone from any old forum, my friend introduced me here, even though i knew this site a long time ago.

[Obcession]

It seems that whenever the PLA has a military exercise, it's always massed armored columns, frequently supported by massed infantry. I can't stop wondering why they still do that, an enemy air strike or artillery could do a lot of damage...

[MIGleader]

really? i dont think so. they seem to use the ztz-200s, type 63 tanks, and alot of helicopters in the excercises. along with towed AAA. it really matters the mission of the excercise. especially in peace 05, they had flanker provide air cover.

[Red Guard]

i realized i have a 3views for this type 63, here it is.

to my upstairs.
that's because PLA is under the influence of soviet naval infantry. besides PLA won't be launch a full frontal attack at russian and american. to taiwan and japan, or even indonesia or some other tofu army nations, you think they could stop the tide of PLA? i don't think so. they'd better now pee in their pants when they see this, once in a life time, hahaha. the landing exercise is all about landing on taiwan, and as we know, taiwan has only a token force, what artillery? i can't see them.

[sumdud]

Type 63s?! o.-"
.
.
Thoseslow flowing :spam: cans would be minced beef with their "armour".
Using them against even Taiwan could be a :nutkick: for the PLA Marines.

If that's the deal, I'd rather just use the motor boats.

What happen to the modified 89s and of course type 77s?
The type 77s are way more productive here. (Even if they use V-12 engines.)

[darth sidious]

taiwanese tanks are quite weak some are left over from WWII others are over 30 years old with weak fire power the T-63 might stand a chance if used properly but the main assult will probeyl be T-96 not that old junk

[Red Guard]

oh my god....i wouldn't even consider taiwan has an armoured force. there was a story written by a retired taiwanese soldier, who served as a tank driver in the army, you should see how they "do the military work". too bad you guys don't speak chinese.......

[sumdud]

Dude, this thread is about the PLA Marines, not about ROCA tanks.

[Red Guard]

i was jsut making my point. our enemy isn't that powerful. 63A was designed to be fully considered of taking on the CM11 on the beachahead. i think 63A has no problem of blow them up.

[sumdud]

Well, I see your point, so I restore the deleted post.
But,
The Marines are in reality now focus on Taiwan, but not always.
Plus, some of Taiwan's tanks suck, but the M60A3s aren't exactly bad when fighting 63As.
I am sure the CMs aren't the only stuff that will be on shore even on Taiwan, and there are the artillery, but that's another thing.
Then again, there aren't much good opponents like it in the region, other than Japan and ROK.

But really, where are the type 77s?
Those type 63 APCs are nothing but pillbox ducks. Not even pillboxes.......

[darth sidious]

M-60 a tank that can not witnstand a blow from the BMP-1 not a very good MBT now days

also sumdud I would rather go in a 63 then the Hummer much safer like the M113

[sumdud]

What'd you mean?

The type 63 have barely any armor.
The Type 63's thin armour provides little protection against anything larger than a 12.7 mm machine gun, and even some 7.62 mm rounds can hole the armour.
http://sinodefence.com/army/armour/type63.asp

I wouldn't want to be in one for that, and since it's a box you are in, there is absolutely no way of escape if hit.

[darth sidious]

thaat the old ones after the 79 war with vietnam all had extra armour added
plus the can be fitted with armour much easier then a hummer

ps I didnt say its great its just not so bad

[FriedRiceNSpice]

I am confused.:confused:
Are you guys talking about the Type 63 APC or the Type 63 amphibious tank?

[MIGleader]

if you check the link, its talking about the type 63 apc. besides, the 63 amphib obvioiusly wasnt involved in the 79 border war.

[sumdud]

Type 63 APC. But I don't trust it.

Where are the type 77s??

[MIGleader]

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/armour/type77.asp
pretty outdated for land warefare, but still great for transporting amphibious troops. it can accompany type 63a tanks into battle.

[Su-27 Pilot]

I was just wondering what kind of AT missiles are the Taiwanese Army using ?? Those new US-made SPRAWs ??