PLA to replicate US survival training

[adeptitus]

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20051031-040956-7186r

China to replicate U.S. survival training

BEIJING, Oct. 31 (UPI) -- The Chinese government will be training its armed forced with similar tactics used at U.S. survival training academies, state media said Monday.

"Cadets of the Institute of Artillery Corps of the Chinese People's Liberation Army have adopted a new pattern of training in the wild, partially based on the curricula of the United States Military Academy (USMA) at West Point," Xinhua, the Chinese news agency reported, from its Hefei branch.

The rigorous physical and mental demands placed upon military cadets in wilderness training are an important means of winnowing out unsuitable candidates. According to Xinhua, 20 percent of cadets don't graduate from West Point because of the required 10 to 20 days of training in the wilderness every term.

PLA and government officials are worried their officers aren't as tough as their American counterparts. At a meeting of Chinese military academy commandants in 2004, participants complained that some cadets did not like the hardship of survival training. The Central Military Commission and PLA headquarters ordered Major General Ren Fuxing, director of the Artillery Corps institute to introduce West Point-type survival training.

"Comprehensive training in open country is aimed at bringing up high-quality cadets for an army that wants to meet the modern war requirements," Ren said, in the PLA Daily. Adding that results from the pilot program will be monitored by the entire military.

The academy in Hefei, capital of the Anhui province, is one of the four military schools established in July 1999 by China's former president party and PLA leader Jiang Zemin to modernize the military. The other three are the Shijiazhuang Army Command College, the Information Engineering University and the Science and Engineering University.

[MIGleader]

what can i say...china has been very good at imitating u.s tactics and training. doesnt china have boy scouts?:D

so how exactly do they train?

[Obcession]

what can i say...china has been very good at imitating u.s tactics and training. doesnt china have boy scouts?:D

so how exactly do they train?

Boy Scouts? I think that equals the Red Scarves in China.

[MIGleader]

Boy Scouts? I think that equals the Red Scarves in China.

oh yeah. and the show is awsome too:D

[Su-27 Pilot]

boy scouts?:D

so how exactly do they train?

The People's youth !! Good old time.

[swimmerXC]

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20051031-040956-7186r

China to replicate U.S. survival training

BEIJING, Oct. 31 (UPI) -- The Chinese government will be training its armed forced with similar tactics used at U.S. survival training academies, state media said Monday.

"Cadets of the Institute of Artillery Corps of the Chinese People's Liberation Army have adopted a new pattern of training in the wild, partially based on the curricula of the United States Military Academy (USMA) at West Point," Xinhua, the Chinese news agency reported, from its Hefei branch.

The rigorous physical and mental demands placed upon military cadets in wilderness training are an important means of winnowing out unsuitable candidates. According to Xinhua, 20 percent of cadets don't graduate from West Point because of the required 10 to 20 days of training in the wilderness every term.

PLA and government officials are worried their officers aren't as tough as their American counterparts. At a meeting of Chinese military academy commandants in 2004, participants complained that some cadets did not like the hardship of survival training. The Central Military Commission and PLA headquarters ordered Major General Ren Fuxing, director of the Artillery Corps institute to introduce West Point-type survival training.

"Comprehensive training in open country is aimed at bringing up high-quality cadets for an army that wants to meet the modern war requirements," Ren said, in the PLA Daily. Adding that results from the pilot program will be monitored by the entire military.

The academy in Hefei, capital of the Anhui province, is one of the four military schools established in July 1999 by China's former president party and PLA leader Jiang Zemin to modernize the military. The other three are the Shijiazhuang Army Command College, the Information Engineering University and the Science and Engineering University.


o my all the pretty oneliners, i think you guys are going to give Old Goll an hard attack... :roll:
anyways they are just introducing it now? i mean if you go to the MRE thread goll even says they go out into the woods to train (i dont know about survival), but man.. oh yeah i read somewhere on a website (PLA daily, i think) that says like the PLA trainning their marines; basically they just ship them out to sea to an unknown location and give them a couple pack of instant noodles then tell them to survival out there for a week or find their way back..

[FreeAsia2000]

o my all the pretty oneliners, i think you guys are going to give Old Goll an hard attack... :roll:
anyways they are just introducing it now? i mean if you go to the MRE thread goll even says they go out into the woods to train (i dont know about survival), but man.. oh yeah i read somewhere on a website (PLA daily, i think) that says like the PLA trainning their marines; basically they just ship them out to sea to an unknown location and give them a couple pack of instant noodles then tell them to survival out there for a week or find their way back..

Maybe I'm just guessing here but but the change to survival training could it be because the PLA is going to be assuming a more interventionist role like the US army eg going to other countries. Why does it feel the need to copy US survival methods otherwise. The PLA methods were perfectly adequate during it's previous conflicts.

Also why jungle training except in Burma, south east asia ?

[MIGleader]

Maybe I'm just guessing here but but the change to survival training could it be because the PLA is going to be assuming a more interventionist role like the US army eg going to other countries. Why does it feel the need to copy US survival methods otherwise. The PLA methods were perfectly adequate during it's previous conflicts.

Also why jungle training except in Burma, south east asia ?

is it trying to show the u.s that it intends to take the role of a peaceful army rather than an offensive one?

jungle combat is a good thing to sieze upon. its always been one of the major weakpoints of the u.s army, and chinas south-east regions are full of forests.

[FreeAsia2000]

is it trying to show the u.s that it intends to take the role of a peaceful army rather than an offensive one?

jungle combat is a good thing to sieze upon. its always been one of the major weakpoints of the u.s army, and chinas south-east regions are full of forests.

On the contrary MIGleader i think the PLA believes that it may be engaged in land campaigns in south east asia which is why it is training for jungle warfare.
However these campaigns would be conducted as a high tech army like the US
and unlike previous guerilla warfare techniques eg the NLA

Is Taiwan similar to South East Asia in geography ?

[MIGleader]

On the contrary MIGleader i think the PLA believes that it may be engaged in land campaigns in south east asia which is why it is training for jungle warfare.
However these campaigns would be conducted as a high tech army like the US
and unlike previous guerilla warfare techniques eg the NLA

Is Taiwan similar to South East Asia in geography ?

well, taiwan doesnt have huge forest. maybe some mountains. but any fighting there would be on relatively flat terrain or int cities. why would the pla want to fight in south east asia? china already has begun improving relations with vietnam.

[chopsticks]

On the contrary MIGleader i think the PLA believes that it may be engaged in land campaigns in south east asia which is why it is training for jungle warfare.
However these campaigns would be conducted as a high tech army like the US
and unlike previous guerilla warfare techniques eg the NLA

Is Taiwan similar to South East Asia in geography ?


my platoon sgts who have been to Taiwan for training said that their vegetation is less than South-East Asia.. and i think the climate is a lot better.. (cooler & less humid) the food is nice too!!! :D

South-East Asian climate is really hot and terrible at times.. most Caucasians really can't really take the heat. i remember my literature teacher used to look like he jumped into the pool fully clothed before he came to class. lol... he was always wiping his sweat too..

and other stuff i heard from my sgts is that when USMC came over to train here (Singapore), they couldnt even do the route marches.. but they are supposedly able to do those log pt crap while running!!! lol... i guess its the heat and humidity... route marching in South-East Asian climate without the vegetation is the WORST!!! i dislike it the most... i even had hallucinations once because of scorching heat lol (but i still completed!!! :) )

[FreeAsia2000]

well, taiwan doesnt have huge forest. maybe some mountains. but any fighting there would be on relatively flat terrain or int cities. why would the pla want to fight in south east asia? china already has begun improving relations with vietnam.

What about nepal ? we know that India is actively intervening there with
US support and providing jungle warfare training

http://www.lionesto.net/articles/India_Intervenes.htm

also we know that the PLA has now a doctrine of winning through the use
of elite troops

(Nan Li, "The PLA's Evolving Warfighting Doctrine, Strategy and Tactics, 1985-95: A Chinese Perspective," in The China Quarterly, ed. David Shambaugh (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1996) 451-53.)

so the question is why jungle training ? it's hardly going to be used in central asia therefore the PLA will probably be undertaking some actions in the Spratleys with the PLAN as a test for Taiwan OR in Nepal/Burma

[MIGleader]

What about nepal ? we know that India is actively intervening there with
US support and providing jungle warfare training

http://www.lionesto.net/articles/India_Intervenes.htm

also we know that the PLA has now a doctrine of winning through the use
of elite troops

(Nan Li, "The PLA's Evolving Warfighting Doctrine, Strategy and Tactics, 1985-95: A Chinese Perspective," in The China Quarterly, ed. David Shambaugh (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1996) 451-53.)

so the question is why jungle training ? it's hardly going to be used in central asia therefore the PLA will probably be undertaking some actions in the Spratleys with the PLAN as a test for Taiwan OR in Nepal/Burma

nepal eh? well, i think the pla will lay off of there for now. even if indian/u.s troops train their, they still are on good realtions with china. theres no conflict there. but i see why its a good isea to do jungle training now, just in case of future conflict there.

[chopsticks]

if u guys read the papers, Nepal is in some sort of civil war right now... some Royal family feud or something..

anyways, no one would touch Nepal cos its inbetween India and China.. just look at Kashmir.. i'm sure all sides want to avoid the same fate!!!

[Vytautas]

anyways, no one would touch Nepal cos its inbetween India and China.. just look at Kashmir.. i'm sure all sides want to avoid the same fate!!!
Wow!This is so relavant to chinese survival training...

[PiSigma]

let's try to get back to survival training guys.

in the past few years, china have tried to expand the officer base rapidly by recuiting many fresh-out-of-school students that just graduated from university with a bachelars or masters or even PhD. these graduates from civilian universities are often out of shape and just have a lot of brains. and since it's the military, they know that no matter what department your serving in, there will be a time that the officer is needed on the field, so survival training is essential even for officers that just do research all day long. This is usually not the case for graduates from military schools, because of the them have to serve for a period of time and are promoted to a position that allows them to go to officer school, or are recuited right from kids from high school. also military schools have very strict physical education program that everyone have to complete. since china is a large country, the geography and climate for different locations are completely different. many miiltary regions have special training, like in the north, they'll teach some soldiers to ski.

the normal grunts gets very similar training to now, which is very intense already. the special forces gets to travel to friendly nations like venezuala sometimes to train in terran and climate that's to available in china.

also US have some of the best training in the world for many of its forces, there's not reason not to try to learn something that's better than what they currently have.

[MIGleader]

let's try to get back to survival training guys.

in the past few years, china have tried to expand the officer base rapidly by recuiting many fresh-out-of-school students that just graduated from university with a bachelars or masters or even PhD. these graduates from civilian universities are often out of shape and just have a lot of brains. and since it's the military, they know that no matter what department your serving in, there will be a time that the officer is needed on the field, so survival training is essential even for officers that just do research all day long. This is usually not the case for graduates from military schools, because of the them have to serve for a period of time and are promoted to a position that allows them to go to officer school, or are recuited right from kids from high school. also military schools have very strict physical education program that everyone have to complete. since china is a large country, the geography and climate for different locations are completely different. many miiltary regions have special training, like in the north, they'll teach some soldiers to ski.

the normal grunts gets very similar training to now, which is very intense already. the special forces gets to travel to friendly nations like venezuala sometimes to train in terran and climate that's to available in china.

also US have some of the best training in the world for many of its forces, there's not reason not to try to learn something that's better than what they currently have.

who are "the normal grunts"? you mean us soldiers, or chinese soldiers?

the normal grunts gets very similar training to now, which is very intense already. the special forces gets to travel to friendly nations like venezuala sometimes to train in terran and climate that's to available in china.

neither china or the u.s sends troops to venezueala. what are u talking about? you might want to clarify the paragraph

[rommel]

who are "the normal grunts"? you mean us soldiers, or chinese soldiers?

the normal grunts gets very similar training to now, which is very intense already. the special forces gets to travel to friendly nations like venezuala sometimes to train in terran and climate that's to available in china.

neither china or the u.s sends troops to venezueala. what are u talking about? you might want to clarify the paragraph

Well, the US sent some soldiers in the past to Venezuala, it was 4 active team of the US Special Force, the ODA 763, ODA 746, ODA 743 and ODB 740 (a total of 47 men) was the 4 team sent to train the Venezualian Army.

ODB 740 was sent to train the 6th Regional Command at San Fernado de Apure to give battle staff course instruction

ODA 743 was sent to the 69th Commando Rurales at San Fernado de Apure to give light infantry training

ODA 763 was sent in Macarao to the GAC FAC (Grupo de Acciones de Comandos Fuerzas Especiales de la Guardia Naciinal de Venezuela, it's the real name, it's the finest counter-terrosit unit in South America, a rough equivalent to the 1st SFOD-D (Delta Force)) to train the GAC FAC for light infantry and antiterrorist training.

ODA 746 was sent in El Guayabo to the 107th Special Force Battalion for light infantry training.

The four mission was know under the JCS (Joint chief of Staff) mission number of CN-9034, CN-9035, CN-9036 and CN-9037.

That was in 1999. BTW, all those teams are from the 2/7th SFG that are based at Fort Bragg, North Carolina

In the training, there was a lot of Survival, Evasion, Rescue and Escape training.

[MIGleader]

so im gussing venezuela;s not going to let u.s troops in anymore?

[swimmerXC]

guys the US armed forces topic gotta stop... unless you want one of us to change the title to "Comparing US army trainning to PLA trainning"

[Gollevainen]

You know im not here saying ONELINERS ARE FORBIDDEN just for fun, or am i?

This doesen't just mean migleader but all, if i spot one more oneliner tonight, the person making it will get a warning!!!

[PiSigma]

sorry about the misconceptions there. normal grunts as in PLA troopers. and i remember there has been articles out before about PLA special troops that went to venezuela recents to train or something. i'm not going to looks it up since i'm at home with the crappy computer.

and USA has trained in venezuela before.

[FreeAsia2000]

sorry about the misconceptions there. normal grunts as in PLA troopers. and i remember there has been articles out before about PLA special troops that went to venezuela recents to train or something. i'm not going to looks it up since i'm at home with the crappy computer.

and USA has trained in venezuela before.

PiSigma the question is why is the PLA army replicating US Survival training.

Maybe because of Yugoslavia and Iraq ? US solidiers/airmen have been fairly good at escape and evasion.

I think it is because the PLA wants to move from a mass army to the use of smaller units of highly trained troops. Doesn't North Korea follow that model ?
and why survival training in particular rather than beefing up it's special forces unless the command believe they will be involved in a short high tech war soon against either a limited war opponent or a smaller army/ group

[sumdud]

China replicating US survival training?
I thought China already had better survival training than the US.
Or at least overall..........
Chinese living standards by mass aren't as good as that of America's, so I doubt the demand is that high.
But for the rich people, the story might be completely different.........

What does China do for survival training anyway?

[Kampfwagen]

It seems only natural for what the PLA is doing. I mean, after all many PLA units, and even weapons are taking cues from various western influences. The Type-98 Tank, the Type 95 Rifle, the new High-Mobility Vehicle, the list goes on.Their training seems the least suprising.

[MIGleader]

well, the type 95 and the type 98 had little or no western influence. more eastern. the type 95 in my opinion is a pathetic weapon, and the chinese forces are so much better of with the highly reliable, light, and powerful type 87A. but the pla commanders decided to get something cool looking instead of the tried and true weapon...

china is a huge place, and had forests, mountains, marches, cities, deserts. any place in the world can be simulated. since western nations are farily open about their methods, i wouldnt be surprised if china picked a few points up.

[Gollevainen]

the type 95 in my opinion is a pathetic weapon, and the chinese forces are so much better of with the highly reliable, light, and powerful type 87A. but the pla commanders decided to get something cool looking instead of the tried and true weapon

Well i doupt strongly that PLA generals are choosing weapons on basis of theyr look...you see they are not 15 year old highscool kids playing c & c...

I too feel that the type 87 might (as i've never shot whit it) be good weapon, perhaps even better than the orginal Kalashnikovik (which still is the best assault rifle desing ever made) But i don't think the Type 95 being "pathetic" (tough it have the typical shortcommings of Bullpup type of rifles)...do you have something that proovs this quite strong obinion of yours?

[MIGleader]

lets see....
the type 95 can only be right hand fired if you want to fire on a corner
it over heats too much
its certainly is not as relibale as a kalashmikov variant
its makes alot of heat, smoke, and noise when its fired.
during testing, the pla reported quite a number of technical problems and design flaws, and not too many troops were happy with the rifle.

conclusion: the type 95 is a fairly mediocre rifle. the pla is certainly better off with the type 87a or type 03.

well, if gollevainen decided to join in, im guessing it was ok.

[sumdud]

Well, the type 95 was a first for Chinese bullpups, what can you expect?

But what does this have to do with survival training?