View Full Version : Romance Of The Three Kingdoms
When I recently went to China, I bought the DVD version of the tv-series (1995) produced by ChinaCentralTV.
There are 28 discs. And it has taken me a month to watch all the 84 episodes.
Romance of the Three kingdoms is a must see for anybody who is interested in this period of Chinese (military) history. Love, drama, war, loyalty all make their presence felt in this epic. No small wonder why it is still around, even after almost 2000 years.
Liberator
08-30-2005, 01:39 PM
Yes Romance of the three kingdoms. Its kinda old but, its good though.
It won't be good for people that only watch violence and kill all the time.
Dongfeng
08-30-2005, 01:42 PM
Yes, but you have to be aware that the TV series is based on the book "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms", which is a novel written by Luo Guanzhong several hundred years ago, while the actual history took place two thousand years ago. The real history is far from romantic. In fact, ordinary people got killed by warlords, and their cities and villages destroied.
Liberator
08-30-2005, 01:51 PM
How did Guan Yi die in the end? He got killed or just died of natural causes.
Obcession
08-30-2005, 02:12 PM
He died because he was captured by Wei and he was asked to join their side. When he said no because he will always be loyal to his brothers who were in Shu, Ciao Ciao had no choice but to kill him. Ciao Ciao was not going to let such a brilliant of a general rejoin his enemy again. By that time I think Zhang Fei already died because he was assasinated by two of his followers.
The whole series is awesome! The book is even better, 110 chapters! For all of you that haven't read the book or seen it before, you should! I wonder if there is an English version of the book.
Dongfeng
08-30-2005, 04:21 PM
Where did you get that story from, Obcession? I think you get confused :confused: Guan Yu was not killed by Cao Cao, but Wu Kingdom.
When Liu Bei sent most of his troops to capture Han Zhong, he left his brother Guan Yu to guard Jin Zhou, where Liu Bei started his power after defeating Cao Cao's army in Chi Bi with his ally Wu Kingdom.
Then Shu kingdom's ally Wu broke the treaty and attacked Jin Zhou. Guan Yu did not listen to his advisers to get prepared, and was defeated and captured. Then Wu kingdom killed him and his son.
For this reason Liu Bei stopped his war with Wei kingdom (Cao Cao), and sent his whole army to attack Wu Kingdom. Unfortunately, just when he was about to capture the capital of Wu Kingdom, he was defeated by Wu's arsenal attack. He had to retreat back to Shu Kingdom and his kingdom's power was seriously damaged. Soon he died.
YueTheMighty
08-30-2005, 04:29 PM
By that time I think Zhang Fei already died because he was assasinated by two of his followers.
Actaully, Zhang Fei didn't die until after Guan Yu's death.
T-U-P
08-30-2005, 06:32 PM
Zhang Fei was killed by his soldiers, he wanted them to make a large number of special battle uniforms (the white ones so he can take revenge for Guan Yu's death) but he only gave them a little time and also he abuse them frequently because he was not happy. so one day his soldiers had enough of him and killed him when he was sleeping (after getting drunk).
Obcession
08-30-2005, 06:48 PM
Oh you're right DongFeng! Ah I haven't read the book in such a long time.
Zhang Fei was killed by his soldiers, he wanted them to make a large number of special battle uniforms (the white ones so he can take revenge for Guan Yu's death) but he only gave them a little time and also he abuse them frequently because he was not happy. so one day his soldiers had enough of him and killed him when he was sleeping (after getting drunk).
And they cut off his head and gave his head to Wei.
FriedRiceNSpice
08-30-2005, 06:50 PM
Finally, Liu Bei died, the last of the 3 brothers of the Peach Garden to die. Then, Zhu Ge Liang died about 5-10 years after Liu Bei's death, and the Kingdom of Shu was defeated.
T-U-P
08-30-2005, 08:03 PM
you know when those 3 were in the peach garden, they said that they'll live together and die together, but in reality they didn't die together, but rather Guan Yu died first.
FriedRiceNSpice
08-30-2005, 08:06 PM
you know when those 3 were in the peach garden, they said that they'll live together and die together, but in reality they didn't die together, but rather Guan Yu died first.
True. Did you know that afterwards, Guan Yu became the Chinese God of War? If you ever go to Hangzhou in China, there is even a shrine dedicated to him.
Obcession
08-30-2005, 10:35 PM
Finally, Liu Bei died, the last of the 3 brothers of the Peach Garden to die. Then, Zhu Ge Liang died about 5-10 years after Liu Bei's death, and the Kingdom of Shu was defeated.
Because Liu Bei's son was such a low life! Liu Bei was wise and generous and a great ruler, Zhu Ge Liang being his trusted strategist. Liu Bei actually told Zhu Ge Liang that he could take his son's inheritance of the kingdom away if the son was "unfit" for it. Zhu Ge Liang did not, however, because he honored Liu Bei... Liu Bang 忘恩负义.
swimmerXC
08-30-2005, 11:25 PM
Sorry to ruin your debates... but whats the movie called in chinese, pinying please (mandarin would be nice :D), i remembered playing a game called this.. your like a general in imperical china and you have to win territories...
FriedRiceNSpice
08-30-2005, 11:54 PM
Sorry to ruin your debates... but whats the movie called in chinese, pinying please (mandarin would be nice :D), i remembered playing a game called this.. your like a general in imperical china and you have to win territories...
In Chinese, it is San Gou Yan Yi. That translates to: Three Kingdoms Perform Drama.
Obcession
08-30-2005, 11:55 PM
The short name for the book and movie is San Guo Yan Yi, I forgot the full name.
The game you played was probably called San Guo Ying Xion Zhuan.
patriot
01-03-2006, 02:29 AM
There are many versions of the game produced by different companies. Anyone know how to get the game.
TheHarkonnen
04-16-2006, 06:43 PM
Finally, Liu Bei died, the last of the 3 brothers of the Peach Garden to die. Then, Zhu Ge Liang died about 5-10 years after Liu Bei's death, and the Kingdom of Shu was defeated.
The book I have says that the Peach Garden Oath is fictional.
Is this true?:mad:
The book I have says that the Peach Garden Oath is fictional.
Is this true?:mad:
Yes, it is true that the Peach Garden is fictional. The romance of the three kingdoms are about only 60% historian correct.
TheHarkonnen
04-17-2006, 08:36 PM
Well, what else is fictional in the Three Kingdoms novel. If someone could answer these:
1. I know Diao Chan wasn't a real person, so why then did Lu Bu kill Dong Zhou?
2. What about Zhuge Liang's calling of the wind? What really happened at the Battle of Chi Bi?
3. Was Zhao Yun's rescuing of Liu Chan at Chang Ban also fictional? If so, what really happened?
4. Was the Zhuage Liang's Nanman campaign also fictional?
5. Was the Battle of Wu Zhang (the battle where Zhuge Liang died and Jiang Wei made everyone retreat) also fictional?
Well, what else is fictional in the Three Kingdoms novel. If someone could answer these:
1. I know Diao Chan wasn't a real person, so why then did Lu Bu kill Dong Zhou?
First I would like to say that Historical information needs evidence of its own to prove it. So eventhrough I would say that Dian chan or Peach Garden are fictional, but there are still some sort of possibility that it might had happened. Of course it is higly unlikely.:)
Lu Bu killed because Dong Zhuo had a bad temper and would occasionally throw halberds at Lu Bu. Lu Bu had an affair with one of Dong's serving girls and was afraid of being found out.
2. What about Zhuge Liang's calling of the wind? What really happened at the Battle of Chi Bi?
Zhuge Liang 's calling of the wind is also fictional.
In the battle of ChiBi, eventhrough with overwhelming superiority in numbers, Cao Cao failed seize the initiative. He also sacrificld his mobility by lashing his hundreds of vessels togehter. Cao Cao's troop were not good in naval warfare, and his arrogance made him negligence. The Wu's troops are actually superior in naval warefare, and after realizing that a fire started among boats will spread throughout others. Huang Gai advised Zhou Yu to mount an attack by using ten large vessels filled with oil. So the credit should go to Huang Gai. BTW If Cao Cao did not fled with gather his forces, the Wei would not suffered so much.
3. Was Zhao Yun's rescuing of Liu Chan at Chang Ban also fictional? If so, what really happened?
In history he did saved Liu Chan, but it has not mentioned anywhere that Zhao Yun had to fight off an army by himself to rescue Liu Shan and Lady Gan. All he did was stay with them and escort them to safety which still is a quick an achievement.
4. Was the Zhuage Liang's Nanman campaign also fictional?
Zhuge Liang did participate in the nanman campaign. He also did capture Meng Huo 7 times and there is no lies behind it.
5. Was the Battle of Wu Zhang (the battle where Zhuge Liang died and Jiang Wei made everyone retreat) also fictional?
[/QUOTE]
Zhuge Liang dies at Wu Zhang. Shu armies retreat to Cheng Du. Wei Yan assassinated by Ma Dai.
TheHarkonnen
04-18-2006, 07:23 PM
Thanks for the detailed information KYli.
I have a lot more questions, but those were my five, most concerning ones. So what are you sources from which you get this factual information, if you could please tell me. I would like to know.
Sanguo Zhi by Chen Shou, it was wrote only decades after Wei united the three kingdoms. A lot of Romance of The three kingdoms was based on this book and some chinese operas. Eventhrough Sanguo Zhi is very historical accurate, but since Chen Shou had personal hatred toward Shu-han. He might be somewhat bias. I don't recommend you to read this book unless you are very fluent in Chinese, because it was wrote by old chinese language so it is very difficult. Of course i also got some informations from other sources.:)
TheHarkonnen
04-18-2006, 08:36 PM
Yeah, I know like one or two words in Chinese. I know absolutely no Chinese writing at all. You mentioned other sources, hopefully in English.:)
Most of the other sources are Chinese, but you could learn something in the RTK forum and site.
LINKS
http://www.3kingdoms.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=6
http://kongming.net/novel/
The Wikipedia could also be a great help, as long as people don't intention mess up the informations.
TheHarkonnen
04-19-2006, 07:03 PM
Thanks KYli! There is A LOT of information on those websites, but I'm confused. On the Kongming website they have officer biographies but what are the Sanguozhi and Sanguo yanyi? Are they refering to two books or something else? If they are books or something, are they fictional or historical records. I'm hoping you would know, KYli.
Thanks KYli! There is A LOT of information on those websites, but I'm confused. On the Kongming website they have officer biographies but what are the Sanguozhi and Sanguo yanyi? Are they refering to two books or something else? If they are books or something, are they fictional or historical records. I'm hoping you would know, KYli.
They are refering two books. The Sanguozhi was a write by a historian author which is basicly a historical records. And the Sanguo yanyi was more fictional book, the Romance of Three kingdoms is same as Sanguo yanyi.
TheHarkonnen
04-20-2006, 07:57 PM
How can Cao Cao, a decent military strategist, beat Lu Bu, Yuan Shu, Yuan Shao, Zhang Xiu, and Li Jue (When he took over the capital), help beat the Yellow Turbans and Dong Zhou, not beat Wu at Chi Bi?! Above that suffering a major military blow to his forces because he overlooked a simple fire attack?! Was he on drugs or something and history forgot to mention that?! How can someone like him lose so badly?!:confused:
Spike
04-20-2006, 08:21 PM
How can Cao Cao, a decent military strategist, beat Lu Bu, Yuan Shu, Yuan Shao, Zhang Xiu, and Li Jue (When he took over the capital), help beat the Yellow Turbans and Dong Zhou, not beat Wu at Chi Bi?! Above that suffering a major military blow to his forces because he overlooked a simple fire attack?! Was he on drugs or something and history forgot to mention that?! How can someone like him lose so badly?!:confused:
Cao Cao's army wasn't used to fighting naval battles in the south, he was probably also overconfident due to prior victories. Wu commanders Zhou Yu and Huang Gai were fighting on their home turf as well as being much more capable strategists than the likes of Lu Bu. They also had the help of Zhuge Liang who predicted that the prevailing winds would change to blow in the direction of Cao Cao's camp (this is in the story anyways, not sure if it's historically true).
TheHarkonnen
04-20-2006, 08:33 PM
Yeah, but with all of his victories, you would think he would've learned something before Chi Bi. . . like not putting the majority of your army of ships. You can't win them all I guess.
The Battle of ChiBi was single biggest mistake Cao Cao ever made, I think he was a little over confident because of his sucess. If Cao Cao managed to win this battle, he probably will unite China very soon. Actually the east wind is not totally his fault, since he thought that the wind will not blow east done to the fact that they never did in this time of period in the northern China. But he was wrong, the Wu took the advantage and managed to shock Cao Cao. Like I said before eventhrough with overwhelming superiority in numbers, Cao Cao failed to seize the initiative. He also sacrificld his mobility by lashing his hundreds of vessels togehter. Cao Cao's troop were not good in naval warfare, and his arrogance made him negligence. The Wu's troops are actually superior in naval warefare. Zhou Yu was a as much a genius as Zhuge Liang was, the the Romance of the Three kingdoms really unfairly understated his military ability. The single thing that I can't understand is why after the defeat, Cao Cao did not gather his forces to fight, if he did the Wei would not suffered so much. Cao Cao really failed big time in ChiBi, he is not acting as he used to be. Cao Cao as a good military strategist had lost his reputation, if he just managed to do better the history will change forever.
TheHarkonnen
04-20-2006, 09:15 PM
I wonder why none of his advisors thought of a possible fire attack. So how could've Cao Cao won? Besides maybe having a nuke missile or two. . . (lol):D
netspider
04-20-2006, 09:45 PM
I wonder why none of his advisors thought of a possible fire attack. So how could've Cao Cao won? Besides maybe having a nuke missile or two. . . (lol):D
After he was defeated in Chi Bi, Cao Cao did regret that his best advisor, Guo Jia, died at young age. He implied that if Guo Jia had alive, he would not lose the war at all.
I wonder why none of his advisors thought of a possible fire attack. So how could've Cao Cao won? Besides maybe having a nuke missile or two. . . (lol):D
Cao Cao did thought about the fire attack, it was just without the wind the damage will not be significant. Wu's naval don't have the resources to launch attack on all of the Cao Cao's vessels.
Cao Cao should not be lashing his hundreds of vessels togehter and never put majority of his troops on the ships. This in term gave Cao Cao's mobility necessary to win. Cao Cao should attack first, the fire attack won't work by then. Since Cao Cao had more resources, in the long run Wu can't match Cao Cao. Eventhrough Zhou Yu was a very good military strategist, Wei's troops are way superior than Wu's troops. Actually in the Battle of ChiBi Cao Cao was in the height of his power, as long as he did not messed up. Cao Cao should be able to defeat Wu.
Anthrophobia
04-20-2006, 11:55 PM
The direction of the wind made a fire attack impossible when CaoCao was about to launch his attack. It just happens that the wind direction changed. Better weather forecasters for Wu's side I assume.
TheHarkonnen
04-21-2006, 11:21 AM
What role did Taiwan play during this period?
Taiwan had nothing to do with China during this period of time, my Fujianese ancestor only had been moving to Taiwan during the Ming Dynasty.
netspider
04-21-2006, 02:13 PM
Taiwan had nothing to do with China during this period of time, my Fujianese ancestor only had been moving to Taiwan during the Ming Dynasty.
Actually, Taiwan does have something to do with China this period of time.
Wu, one of the three kingdoms in this era, once sent over 10,000 men to Taiwan. San Guo Zhi (a history book) by Chen Shou said this happend at A.D 230. Sun Quan, the King of Wu, sent his generals Wei Wen and Zhuge Zhi, along with over 10,000 soliders oversea to look for Taiwan and another island. They only reached Taiwan, and conquered Taiwan for some years. However, because of the desease and plague, they had to leave Taiwan after a short period.
mindreader
04-21-2006, 02:30 PM
Taiwan had nothing to do with China during this period of time, my Fujianese ancestor only had been moving to Taiwan during the Ming Dynasty.
Actually, a bit of correction. Wu was the first to colonize Taiwan. This little fact was pretty well documented though often neglected.
In the grand scheme of things though, Taiwan was largely insignificant during that period.
Thanks Mindreader and Netspider for the correction, I did forgot about this part of history in San Guo Zhi.:p:o
TheHarkonnen
04-21-2006, 07:41 PM
So Taiwan wasn't originally a part of China? And one more question, who were the Nanman? Do they still exist today? I know Zhuge Liang beat them and all, but where did these Nanman folk come from? Are they from Vietnam?
Rome was not build in one day.:)
Nanman's meaning is southern man or south barbarian. The nanman were a rebel tribe located in southern china that started uprisings. Nanman was located in modern Mandalay City, Myanmar (Burma).
netspider
04-21-2006, 11:36 PM
So Taiwan wasn't originally a part of China? And one more question, who were the Nanman? Do they still exist today? I know Zhuge Liang beat them and all, but where did these Nanman folk come from? Are they from Vietnam?
This was the ancient history of China. China has expanded dramatically ever since his birth. His terrirory has extended outwards from a core area in the north china, If that is the "Original China" you were implying, then most of China today are not part of the "Original China". It is just like any other big countries, US, Russia, they are all like this.
As for your Nanman question, I think they were some minorities living in the mountain and forest areas of southwestern China. I think they are primarily Zhuan or Hung, two main minorities in China. Were they from Vietnam? I don't know.
As far as I knew, Nanman was part of Tai minority group. Vietnam was part of Bai Yue or hundred Yue, and at that time period Vietnam was part of Jiaozhou control by Wu which included north Vietnam, Canton and Guangxi.
akinkhoo
04-22-2006, 03:10 PM
Zhuge Liang 's calling of the wind is also fictional.
In the battle of ChiBi, eventhrough with overwhelming superiority in numbers, Cao Cao failed seize the initiative. He also sacrificld his mobility by lashing his hundreds of vessels togehter. Cao Cao's troop were not good in naval warfare, and his arrogance made him negligence. The Wu's troops are actually superior in naval warefare, and after realizing that a fire started among boats will spread throughout others. Huang Gai advised Zhou Yu to mount an attack by using ten large vessels filled with oil. So the credit should go to Huang Gai. BTW If Cao Cao did not fled with gather his forces, the Wei would not suffered so much.but the Wind itself wasn't fictional, Wu was informed by the local fisherman about the unusual weather pattern in the region. Zhuge Liang has nothing to do with it, nor was he able to read the weather.
it is believe that disease was already affecting Wei's forces as the northerner were not resistance being new to the region. it is debatable if the naval battle affected the outcome, because the tide was really turn when Wei broke camp. so something else must had happened, but each side presents a different historical record of how the encampment broke. so it is hard to tell, we just know Wei did lose 100 of 1000s of men; it was the defining battle of the period as with that ended any chance for quick reunification of the land and divided the land in 3. :nono: :nono: :nono:
FreeAsia2000
04-25-2006, 09:16 AM
I've noticed that a lot of the battles are one on one in the Three Kingdoms
is this realistic or just artistic licence because it's kind of annoying
netspider
04-25-2006, 12:24 PM
I've noticed that a lot of the battles are one on one in the Three Kingdoms
is this realistic or just artistic licence because it's kind of annoying
One-to-one duels between generals are fictional. It is just a way to waste general's life, and destory solider's morale if the general is killed. Nobody will do that.
radiowave21
05-05-2006, 08:42 AM
i admit that “Romance Of The Three Kingdoms”（i prefer Legend to Romance, though）is a really good novel, but if you everybody wanna find out the real history, you got to see the book named "SanGuo Zhi", it's a creditable history record
FreeAsia2000
05-11-2006, 12:35 PM
i admit that “Romance Of The Three Kingdoms”（i prefer Legend to Romance, though）is a really good novel, but if you everybody wanna find out the real history, you got to see the book named "SanGuo Zhi", it's a creditable history record
I've read that it's quite a boring read like
May 10th: It rained today. The emperor listened to some music
May 11th: It was sunny today. There was an invasion. Not many people
injured.
:)
Spike
05-11-2006, 11:37 PM
I've read that it's quite a boring read like
May 10th: It rained today. The emperor listened to some music
May 11th: It was sunny today. There was an invasion. Not many people
injured.
:)
That's probably why it's a credible source, since it's like a real history record of what happened daily. :)
radiowave21
05-18-2006, 09:59 AM
I've read that it's quite a boring read like
May 10th: It rained today. The emperor listened to some music
May 11th: It was sunny today. There was an invasion. Not many people
injured.
:)
unluckily the english version u got is not so good...:o
"SanGuo Zhi" written by Chen Shou is in ancient chinese lanuage, it is hard that even a chinese without a certain extent education cannot read it smooth...
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