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Gollevainen
10-13-2005, 09:11 AM
Plan for fighter aircraft
Russia wants to team up with India
T.R. Ramachandran
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, October 12
Russia is keen that India should partner it in developing a fifth-generation fighter aircraft as the defence needs of the two countries are similar. The Kremlin firmly believes that this will speed up the process of developing such an aircraft as pooling of enormous resources will facilitate it a great deal. The US, which is also engaged in producing a fifth-generation fighter aicraft, has already spent close to $ 40 billion. Moscow will only be too keen to have India as a trusted partner in this ambitious endeavour.

In this context, the collaboration between the two countries in developing the Brahmos missiles is brought to the fore. There is also a need for the two countries to develop future- generation transport aircraft, specially for the armed forces.

India’s proposal of leasing a second Russian nuclear submarine appears to have receded in the background with the signing of the deal with France for the acquisition of the Scorpene submarines with complete transfer of technology enabling this country to manufacture them at the Mazagaon docks in Mumbai.

“Chakra” was the first nuclear submarine leased from Russia.

While emphasising that it was entirely the Congress-led UPA government’s decision to diversify the country’s defence purchases rather than being wholly dependent on Russia, authoritative sources drew pointed attention to Moscow’s “consistent” policy of not making defence sales to India’s neighbour Pakistan. This despite the fact that Islamabad has made several approaches to Moscow showing keen interest in Russian armaments.

These and other issues are expected to figure at the summit between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh when he visits Moscow in the first week of December. It is scheduled from December 4 to 6 a few days after the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in the island state of Malta in the Mediterranean.

In a first of its kind, the armies of India and Russia are presently engaged in a joint exercise in Rajasthan to hone their skills in dealing with the growing menace of international terrorism.

About 80 crack paratroopers of the Russian army are engaged in various exercises specially aimed at demolishing the terrorist infrastructure and wiping out the terrorist elements. Russia believes there is a lot it can learn from India in tackling the problem of terrorism which it has been dealing virtually since Independence. The Russians have arrived in this country with heavy duty equipment and transport aircraft along with the requisite Air Force personnel. These exercises already under way are expected to be spread over 10 days till October 20.

Simultaneously from October 18 to 20, the Indian and Russian navies will hold joint exercises off Visakhapatnam where the Indian Navy’s Eastern Command is based. While the Russian ships of missile cruisers are already close to Indian territorial waters, they will move in on October 18. The Russians will only have surface and other support ships and no submarines. There will be some Indian submarines taking part in the exercises.

Russia’s Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov will arrive here on October 15 and witness the exercises between the two armies the next day and subsequently visit Visakhapatnam.

Interestingly, Russia’s former Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, who is currently the Secretary of the Russian Security Council, is arriving here on a three-day visit from October 21. He will hold discussions with National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan who had paid a brief two-day visit to Moscow immediately after the Prime Minister’s visit to New York last month.

Later from October 26 onwards, External Affairs minister K. Natwar Singh will be in Moscow for the Indo-Russian Joint Commission meeting as well as prepare for Dr Manmohan Singh’s visit to the country for the annual summit between the two countries.

from Tribuneindia.com




Lavi
10-13-2005, 09:15 AM
Now this is interesting, India providing the money and Russia the know-how, they could form quite a team. What was the nuclear sub mentioned in the text? Any reports on the class or pennant number? Terms for the deal?

Gollevainen
10-13-2005, 09:23 AM
i read it that the rumored deal to india to rent a AKULA class sub is somehow errupted...

IDonT
10-13-2005, 03:25 PM
i read it that the rumored deal to india to rent a AKULA class sub is somehow errupted...

I thought the Indians were buying an Akula

adeptitus
10-13-2005, 04:51 PM
Is this the first instance of nuclear powered submarine export to date?

tphuang
10-13-2005, 10:26 PM
well, the reports are that China is also contacted about co-developing PAK FA. Who really knows what's going on.

ArjunMk1
10-14-2005, 04:24 AM
well, the reports are that China is also contacted about co-developing PAK FA. Who really knows what's going on.

Actually its India and Russia have joined to produce PAK-FA !!

MIGleader
10-14-2005, 04:30 PM
nah, no actual aircraft deals have been signed yet. the russians have been trying to sell the pak-fa idea for a while, but no takers.

sumdud
10-15-2005, 06:15 PM
Is this the first instance of nuclear powered submarine export to date?
Export? They are only renting it for a year, right? They just observe some technology and then give it back.
I doubt nuclear subs have ever been exported if you exclude renting.
India did rent a Charlie sub in the 80s.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Charlie-I.html

So this is the end of the MCA?

ArjunMk1
10-24-2005, 03:21 PM
Export? They are only renting it for a year, right? They just observe some technology and then give it back.
I doubt nuclear subs have ever been exported if you exclude renting.
India did rent a Charlie sub in the 80s.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Charlie-I.html


PAK FA is until now is a secret programme . But its definite that India is with Russia in some new Stealth fighter project. And after Mig's stealth fighter lost competetion against Sukhoi, then PAK FA is the one left !!! ;)


So this is the end of the MCA?

MCA is going to be enriched by PAK FA's tech !!! :D

tphuang
10-24-2005, 09:12 PM
PAK FA is until now is a secret programme . But its definite that India is with Russia in some new Stealth fighter project. And after Mig's stealth fighter lost competetion against Sukhoi, then PAK FA is the one left !!! ;)



MCA is going to be enriched by PAK FA's tech !!! :D
ah, the eternally optimistic Indians. Judging by the progresss of LCA, I'm guessing MCA might come out by the time F-22 retires.

Fairthought
10-25-2005, 03:42 AM
The US expects the F-22 to serve in the Air Force for the next 40 years.

That's a long time for India to develop the MCA.

Let's be candid, India doesn't have the money for a $40 billion 5th generation fighter development program. India will focus on their Navy over the next 40 years and Navies don't come cheap. I'm not holding my breath for an MCA in 50 years.

If India is smart they'll accept the Russian offer, because their indigenous program has accomplished far too little and is falling behind.

With this offer, India may have a 5th gen fighter within 15 years. Without it, the'll have to divert much needed Naval funds to a questionable MCA program which won't be actualized for a few decades.

MIGleader
10-25-2005, 04:09 PM
The US expects the F-22 to serve in the Air Force for the next 40 years.

That's a long time for India to develop the MCA.

Let's be candid, India doesn't have the money for a $40 billion 5th generation fighter development program. India will focus on their Navy over the next 40 years and Navies don't come cheap. I'm not holding my breath for an MCA in 50 years.

If India is smart they'll accept the Russian offer, because their indigenous program has accomplished far too little and is falling behind.

With this offer, India may have a 5th gen fighter within 15 years. Without it, the'll have to divert much needed Naval funds to a questionable MCA program which won't be actualized for a few decades.

either way, you spend money. the russian obviously plan to do most of the developing and are just looking for a someone with a big pocket book.

sumdud
11-11-2005, 01:54 AM
And after Mig's stealth fighter lost competetion against Sukhoi, then PAK FA is the one left !!! You mean the I-2000?
Why did the MiG design fall out?

rice
11-11-2005, 03:06 AM
sounds like another LCA in the works

in 50 years, when the americans phase out the f-22, the first indian prototype will fail all indian airforce standards and fail to get a contract, and then they will say it's the best fighter in the world but needs 'slight modifications' like changing everything and redesigning the airframe

IDonT
11-11-2005, 08:15 AM
What would be the possibility of India procuring the JSF within the next 10 years? It could be a better replacement for its Mig-21, Mig 27, and Mirage fleets.

JSF in Indian colors.

http://img194.exs.cx/img194/1372/37ka.jpg

ajaybhutani
11-12-2005, 09:16 AM
nah, no actual aircraft deals have been signed yet. the russians have been trying to sell the pak-fa idea for a while, but no takers.
india has not in agreed completely to dedicate itself in the PAK-FA on the whole. but it has agreed in parts of the program. Like
1. IRBIS radar a joint development between india and russia . ( speculated to be fitted with AESA ).
2. KH172 ultra long range missile. the next dev venture of brahmos corporation( which devloped Brahmos cruise missile ).
3. There are talks between india and russia for further upgrades on MKI from components created from PAK-FA project. Creating a possibility of a cooperation or investment in quite a few avionics equipments etc with india not commiting itself to PAK-Fa as a whole .
Furthermore i would any country would prefer to wait before the conceptual stage gets over. Once the airframe designs and specs of other components are available along with details of deadlines for each components. i dont see india / china or anyone commiting to the project on the whole .

tphuang
12-02-2005, 10:17 PM
俄将独立研制第五代作战飞机

俄罗斯航空新闻网2005年11月26日报道]  俄罗斯副总理兼国防部长伊万诺夫表示,俄罗斯在研制第五代作战飞机时,暂时没有计划让其他国家参与这一 过程。他表示:"暂时将由我们独立进行这一工作,在自己内部进行"。现在正进行该飞机样式的确定工作,以及确定其主要参数。在还表示,在12月份印度总理访问莫斯科期间,双 方将签署联合研制军用运输机的协议。针对外界传说印度将与俄罗斯共同研制第五代战机一事,伊万诺夫表示,在 印度总理访问莫斯科期间,俄罗斯与印度将不会签署研制第五代战机协议,现在谈论这一协议还为时 尚早。(刘锁 责编洪山)

It looks like the Russians want to develop the 5th generation aircraft all by themselves. All I can say is good luck! I honestly don't know where they suddenly got the money from.

ajaybhutani
12-10-2005, 10:17 AM
俄将独立研制第五代作战飞机

俄罗斯航空新闻网2005年11月26日报道]  俄罗斯副总理兼国防部长伊万诺夫表示,俄罗斯在研制第五代作战飞机时,暂时没有计划让其他国家参与这一 过程。他表示:"暂时将由我们独立进行这一工作,在自己内部进行"。现在正进行该飞机样式的确定工作,以及确定其主要参数。在还表示,在12月份印度总理访问莫斯科期间,双 方将签署联合研制军用运输机的协议。针对外界传说印度将与俄罗斯共同研制第五代战机一事,伊万诺夫表示,在 印度总理访问莫斯科期间,俄罗斯与印度将不会签署研制第五代战机协议,现在谈论这一协议还为时 尚早。(刘锁 责编洪山)

It looks like the Russians want to develop the 5th generation aircraft all by themselves. All I can say is good luck! I honestly don't know where they suddenly got the money from.

can u please decipher this text for me ??

tphuang
12-10-2005, 12:11 PM
can u please decipher this text for me ??
This is just like the other articles that stated on Indian president's trip to Moscow, no 5th generation cooperation deals will be signed. Russia is going alone for now. A deal for cooperation is far too early or something like that.

ajaybhutani
12-10-2005, 06:35 PM
This is just like the other articles that stated on Indian president's trip to Moscow, no 5th generation cooperation deals will be signed. Russia is going alone for now. A deal for cooperation is far too early or something like that.
thats quite strange considering the fact that i havent read a single article from indian daily's and news sites reporting pm's russia visit that moscow is going alone on signed. Yes the deal for 5th gen plane isnt signed yet as india has requested mig to show their proposal too( they have already seen sukhoi's proposal). and all the speculation surrounding it.
a big factor that needs to be realized that india will expect the plane to fit into its doctrine. and so it needs to look at all the apects before it joins the project. that in no way means that russia isnt interested in cooperation any more or india will not join.

tphuang
12-10-2005, 11:07 PM
thats quite strange considering the fact that i havent read a single article from indian daily's and news sites reporting pm's russia visit that moscow is going alone on signed. Yes the deal for 5th gen plane isnt signed yet as india has requested mig to show their proposal too( they have already seen sukhoi's proposal). and all the speculation surrounding it.
a big factor that needs to be realized that india will expect the plane to fit into its doctrine. and so it needs to look at all the apects before it joins the project. that in no way means that russia isnt interested in cooperation any more or india will not join.
I'm surprised you haven't heard about this news yet. It was posted quite widely on different forums last week.

Russia, India have no plans to sign deal on 5G fighter
RIA Novosti
Mon, 28 Nov 2005, 06:12

PERM: Sergei Ivanov, Russia's deputy prime minister and defense minister, said Thursday that Russia and India would not sign an agreement on the development of a fifth-generation fighter during the visit of the Indian prime minister to Russia in December.

"We are not planning to sign the [5G fighter] agreement during the visit of the Indian prime minister," Ivanov told a news conference.

He said the countries were planning to sign a bilateral agreement on the development of a military cargo plane instead.

I read another article that seemed to indicate that the Russians do not want to co-develop 5g fighter with another country. That was really surprising.

ajaybhutani
12-11-2005, 01:55 AM
I'm surprised you haven't heard about this news yet. It was posted quite widely on different forums last week.

Russia, India have no plans to sign deal on 5G fighter
RIA Novosti
Mon, 28 Nov 2005, 06:12

PERM: Sergei Ivanov, Russia's deputy prime minister and defense minister, said Thursday that Russia and India would not sign an agreement on the development of a fifth-generation fighter during the visit of the Indian prime minister to Russia in December.

"We are not planning to sign the [5G fighter] agreement during the visit of the Indian prime minister," Ivanov told a news conference.

He said the countries were planning to sign a bilateral agreement on the development of a military cargo plane instead.

I read another article that seemed to indicate that the Russians do not want to co-develop 5g fighter with another country. That was really surprising.

i have heard this statement. but what i m pointing to is this

"Russia is going alone for now."
i havent heard this before ..