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DPRKUnderground
10-04-2005, 09:39 PM
Kanwa has talked about this new Al-Khalid variant that will enter the Pakistani Army inventory in the future, the Al-Khalid II. But what will it have? Possibly advanced countermeasures like those on the Type-98G? Maybe some new systems? Firing Control, newer Hunter-Killer system? What do you think the Al-Khalid II will have and what tanks will it fair well against?



ArjunMk1
10-12-2005, 04:59 AM
Kanwa has talked about this new Al-Khalid variant that will enter the Pakistani Army inventory in the future, the Al-Khalid II. But what will it have? Possibly advanced countermeasures like those on the Type-98G? Maybe some new systems? Firing Control, newer Hunter-Killer system? What do you think the Al-Khalid II will have and what tanks will it fair well against?

Is it Type98 ???
FreeAsia2000
10-12-2005, 05:13 AM
The original Al-Khalid was designed to operate in desert environments so I doubt if it's the same as the 98G
Aluka
10-12-2005, 09:21 AM
What do you exactly mean, saying "was designed to operate in desert"? First, Al-Khalid is type90-II with minor changes, second - what exactly should desert tank look like? Two only possible mods i can name are larger sideskirts and better air filters. It's not even enough to give a new name to the tank. Type98 will do i think. Anyway, is there any official info, or are we just chatting?
WebMaster
10-12-2005, 10:26 AM
There is no official information available on Al-Khalid... it all started when guy on Kanwa website wrote an article about it and it made its way to PDF and then to other forums. I don't think many people have read the article but only the heading, hence the name. :coffee:

Personally, I think it's just BS. ;)
DPRKUnderground
10-12-2005, 12:49 PM
What do you exactly mean, saying "was designed to operate in desert"? First, Al-Khalid is type90-II with minor changes, second - what exactly should desert tank look like? Two only possible mods i can name are larger sideskirts and better air filters. It's not even enough to give a new name to the tank. Type98 will do i think. Anyway, is there any official info, or are we just chatting?

What are you talking about! They took a Ukrainian engine b/c it would survive in the desert! Not only that but they took some French systems, including the Hunter/Killer system!
Aluka
10-12-2005, 01:43 PM
About HunterKiller - a) all modern tanks have it b) It has nothing to do with desert. Ukranian engine? Do you even know, what are you talking about? This opposite-style two-shaft engine (6TD) have proven itself the most unstabile and most unrelyable among soviet engines. And originally it was not designed to operate in desert - V84 was. All those ukranian deals actually seem to be some sort of politics. Besides all diesel engines should work properly in warm climate.
MIGleader
10-12-2005, 04:50 PM
ukraine makes some of the most versatile, fuel effecint, and powerful engines in the owrld, for tanks and ships. they have gotten quite alot of sales of these engines
DPRKUnderground
10-12-2005, 08:01 PM
About HunterKiller - a) all modern tanks have it b) It has nothing to do with desert. Ukranian engine? Do you even know, what are you talking about? This opposite-style two-shaft engine (6TD) have proven itself the most unstabile and most unrelyable among soviet engines. And originally it was not designed to operate in desert - V84 was. All those ukranian deals actually seem to be some sort of politics. Besides all diesel engines should work properly in warm climate.

This isn't a Soviet engine, this is a new Ukrainian engine! New design, not the crude Soviet designs! There were reports that it would overheat, but they've overcome that problem!
Aluka
10-12-2005, 11:52 PM
So, you do not know, do you... Ok, i'll enlighten you - 6TD2 engine was creacted in 1983. And what the hell? Soviet technology was not crude, it's a western myth. And how ukranian tech supposed to become better? You think that with independance they got some enlightment? All they got is the lack of founding, that have forced em to sell old equipment, disguised as a new.
crazyinsane105
10-13-2005, 12:58 AM
So, you do not know, do you... Ok, i'll enlighten you - 6TD2 engine was creacted in 1983. And what the hell? Soviet technology was not crude, it's a western myth. And how ukranian tech supposed to become better? You think that with independance they got some enlightment? All they got is the lack of founding, that have forced em to sell old equipment, disguised as a new.

I am pretty sure that it is a Ukranian engine with some Pakistani modifications. There was this excellent article in the last forum I had posted that mentioned the Al Khalid's engine. I am having a bit of trouble finding it, however. :( When I do, I'll post it up.
FreeAsia2000
10-13-2005, 05:14 AM
Hi

The comments regarding it being designed for desert conditions were from an Indian analyst a few years ago.

I'll post them once i locate the site.

In the meantime

Ukraine possesses one of the most reliable tank engines in the conditions of hot climate. It is the result of the strategy of tank building development. At one time Ukraine and Russia, as two great tank powers, took two different ways of tank engine development. Ukrainian constructors chose the Diesel direction, while Russian ones the gas turbine, like many other countries. Now, according to the words of the chief designer of Ukraine armored troops, head of the Kharkov machine-building design office lieutenant general Mikhail Borisyuk, when the principal prominent buyers of armored equipment are located in countries with hot climate, the stability of engines with the ambient air temperature higher than 50 degrees has become one of the key factors for tanks reliability. In the extreme conditions of hot climate gas-turbine engines of China and Poland, created on the base of B-1, B-2 engine types, Russian engines, having had serious problems during testing in India, started to receive transient errors. At the same time Ukrainian engines on the tanks T-80UD, provided to Pakistan, showed high reliability.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/mbt-2000.htm
ArjunMk1
10-13-2005, 06:37 AM
I am pretty sure that it is a Ukranian engine with some Pakistani modifications. There was this excellent article in the last forum I had posted that mentioned the Al Khalid's engine. I am having a bit of trouble finding it, however. :( When I do, I'll post it up.

How could Ukraine developed a engine for hot countries when it is a cold country ??? :confused:
Aluka
10-13-2005, 07:48 AM
Simply - almost every modern diesel engine can operate normally at 50degree, and can operate with lower power at 60degree.
So the answer is - unpurposely.
Generally comparing 6TD2 to V92 we should assume that both of them suit for warm condition well, we should only compare relyability. And yes 6TD2 is less relyable. It is 200hp more powerfull though...
DPRKUnderground
10-13-2005, 07:33 PM
How could Ukraine developed a engine for hot countries when it is a cold country ??? :confused:

Well they would develop it for the Soviet Union and her allies. Part of the Soviet Union would actually get pretty hot, then you have all the clients in the Middle East looking for a good engine to put in their highly mobile T-54s and T-72s.
MIGleader
10-13-2005, 09:45 PM
Well they would develop it for the Soviet Union and her allies. Part of the Soviet Union would actually get pretty hot, then you have all the clients in the Middle East looking for a good engine to put in their highly mobile T-54s and T-72s.

they needed those engines in afghanistan
Aluka
10-13-2005, 11:48 PM
Actually 5TDF engine (the first in the series) was developed for T-64 - soviet-only tank. And once again, USSR did never sell ukranian tanks to anybody, neither were those tanks transfered to eastern or southern parts of the country.
DPRKUnderground
10-14-2005, 07:13 PM
Actually 5TDF engine (the first in the series) was developed for T-64 - soviet-only tank. And once again, USSR did never sell ukranian tanks to anybody, neither were those tanks transfered to eastern or southern parts of the country.

The Ukrainians did produce tanks for the Soviet Union, which include the T-34, which was sold to a lot of Soviet clients.
Aluka
10-15-2005, 02:59 AM
The Ukrainians did produce tanks for the Soviet Union
Technically Ukraine was Soviet Union ;)
And anyway, what was the point of this post? Anyway Soviets never sell T-64.
DPRKUnderground
10-15-2005, 10:23 AM
Technically Ukraine was Soviet Union ;)
And anyway, what was the point of this post? Anyway Soviets never sell T-64.

But they did sell the T-34!
Aluka
10-15-2005, 11:47 AM
So what? T-34 had conventional V-shape non-ukranian engine. I don't see the link anyway, TD series engines were not decieved for export.
Red not Dead
10-18-2005, 05:50 AM
The Ukrainians did produce tanks for the Soviet Union, which include the T-34, which was sold to a lot of Soviet clients.


Scoop, ukraine was part of the USSR!!!!!!!! And most technicians were all but Ukrainians (many armenians and belarussians). :nono:
Red not Dead
10-18-2005, 05:54 AM
I join aluka on this what's the matter?

Ukraine is selling soviet technology with minor changes (and less funds). So what's the big deal...
sumdud
10-18-2005, 09:41 PM
Well yea, but what does that have to do with the Al-Khalid 2?

Which I am guessing will not weigh over 60 tonnes.
I remember people saying that it might have 120mm turrets since that's what they make.
DPRKUnderground
10-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Well yea, but what does that have to do with the Al-Khalid 2?

Which I am guessing will not weigh over 60 tonnes.
I remember people saying that it might have 120mm turrets since that's what they make.

Pakistan cannot make it over 52 tons, it's supposed be light and fast and vre mobile in the desert. I think Pakistan should base it on the K-1, it's about 52 tons, mobile and it has good armament and protection.