j-7 capability

[ahho]

just wondering, since all new planes have bvr and longer range, will j-7 not adequate enough to defend and intercept other fighters when they need to fight. I mean most plane with bvr can engage the j-7 at a great distance so how can j-7 defend itself??

[tphuang]

it can't. if it gets lucky and get close to a plane with bvr and better radar, then it might have a chance. But I doubt it.

[ahho]

than what is the purpose of the j-7 now, if it can't even engage bvr missiled equipped planes, i know that a lot of asian country don't have it but still would j-7 job be limited

[adeptitus]

The J-7 is based on the MiG-21 platform, and we've seen many MiG-21 upgrades, such as the MiG-21-2000 from Israel:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig21/

"IAI Lahav has augmented the original weapons system by introducing a new armament interface and control unit, which enables computerised control and release of weapons, including third- and fourth-generation air-to-air missiles."
"The upgrade package for the MiG-21 gives the aircraft beyond-visual-range capability"

New cockpit:
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig21/mig212.html

EL/M-2032 radar upgrade (recommended read, see page 2 on PDF):
http://www.iai.co.il/data/sip_storage/files/3/29123.pdf

With proper upgrades the MiG-21/J-7 is still quite useful. It's not as good as a late model jet fighter, but not all of your security concerns/border enforcement require expensive, modern fighter jets. For an example, if the PLAAF wants to station a squadron of planes near the western PRC-Mongolian border, J-7's will do just fine.

[Chairman Hu]

For a Russian aircraft, it has good short-range combat capabilities

If China can use them correctly, they would be perfect for an ambush attack, if they fail, meh, they are worthless anyways

[swimmerXC]

well...
With the success of F-7MG/PG, its domestic equivalent dubbed J-7G was quickly developed at CAC based on the similar design upgrades. This new variant features improved electronics including a new KLJ-6E Falcon PD radar (Chinese copy of Italian Grifo MK II or GEC-Marconi SSR) optimized for PL-8A/PL-5C IR guided AAM (might even be able to fire PL-11 medium-range AAM) plus a new HUD, HMS and Type III IFF. The engine is thought to be the same WP-13F turbojet, but it might be replaced by the more powerful WP-14/Kunlun in the future. The prototype of J-7G first flew in June 2002 and the delivery to PLAAF started in early 2003, following the end of J-7E's production in 2002. The introduction of J-7G suggests that J-10 (even J-11) might only enter limited production and won't be able to replace all J-7/8s due to its high cost. J-7G will serve alongside J-10 and J-11, in a "high-low" combination. 16 were delivered to PLAAF (serial # 50x8x) in October 2004. Its unarmed version is called J-7GB to replace J-7EB.

Source (http://mil.jschina.com.cn/huitong/F-7_J-7_J-8.htm)

so if it can shoot BVR it still wont be worthless (it can stand against ROC F-5's).... or u can make it an ultra-maneuverable by giving it TVC and maybe canards?

[MIGleader]

if they can do that, the j-7 will be the first fighter capable of dodging missles at will. but the best path? cheap export.

[Chairman Hu]

the export is faster and less pricier, in fact, YOU GAIN MONEY!

so yea export!

TVC and canard?!?!? Go for the J-10 instead

[ahho]

but i thought the upgrade for bvr is kind of expensive though

[Chairman Hu]

It... kinda is, this is why I really don't want China to upgrade the J-7, itz just not worth it

[sumdud]

The mig-21-2000 has BVR?
What about its manuverability?

All the BVR fishbeds are the big nosed ones, not the small nose, which the Chinese have.

China should not have built new J7Es to replace the J-7B, just make the improvements on the J-7B instead.....

Maybe China can put BVR on the J-7E/G too, but one thing is for sure, China should put MLUs on the J-7E, waaaay more efficient. Those HP were rated for 500kg but everytime they only carry a PL-8, which weighs only 115 kg...
You can even put 2 250kg bombs to each HP doing that.

They could use a laser designator. But not a refueling probe.

[MIGleader]

guys, every plane has an end to potential. soviet planes are well known for their upgrade ability, but this is redicoulous. the mig-21 has reached the end of the upgrade line. why work on a 40 year old plane if you can work on new, modern designs like the j-10?

[adeptitus]

If the Israelis can upgrade F-5E's to use the Derby BVR missile, there's no reason why you couldn't upgrade a J-7 to do the same.

Look at the old A-5's. You can upgrade them to carry targetting pods for laser guided bombs too.

Not all missions require top of the line fighter-bombers. However, if maintaining too many different kinds of aircraft and engines is costing high overhead, then maybe it's better to consolidate to fewer aircraft types.

[sumdud]

Actually, The fishbed's range isn't bad when you count Chinese made fighters.
It has a radius of 850 km.
The J-8B has only 800 km.
The A-5 had 600 km.
J-10, not yet released, current numbers over 550 km.
J-7 can use MLU and laser-designating, and maybe a new radar (The F-5's nose is small, but it's a solid nose. Can the same thing be fit in the Chinese Fishbed, without the Bis/on nose?).
But it's an old plane, so just upgrade the old ones, don't build new ones.
Maybe it can replace the A-5?

The A-5 is sexy, but it sucks. 10 HP is nothing if it can't carry more than 2 tonnes for 600 km......
I am not impressed with the way the A-5 works w/ the laser designator either.
Was it true that it used the C-801?

[vincelee]

550 is way to low for J-10.

[adeptitus]

Here's a great site on MiG-21/J-7's:
http://www.mig-21.de

Here's some scanned pics of the IAI MiG-21-2000 upgrade flyers:
http://www.mig-21.de/English/TechnicalDataUpgradesMiG-21-2000.htm
http://www.mig-21.de/Bilder/Modernisierung/ProspektIAI_2.jpg
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig21/

MiG-21-93 upgrade:
http://www.mig-21.de/English/TechnicalDataUpgradesMiG-21-93.htm
http://www.mig-21.de/Bilder/Modernisierung/ProspektHAL_2.jpg

IMO the PLAAF missed its only opportunity to deploy J-7/J-7A's in combat during the Sino-Vietnam war. The PRC has not been involved in any armed conflicts since and it's highly doubtful that the J-7's today would take part in offensive operations in the future.

Elsewhere in the world, not all countries can afford modern/expensive fighters. There are still some 50 countries that still operate the MiG-21 platform. Nambia just formed their independent air force branch this year and introduced MiG-21 for the first time (number and source unknown), and Nigeria is buying 15 J-7's from China for $251 million USD.