The Boxer Rebellion 1900-01

[Mike Blake]

I know that isn't what the Chinese call it, but its hard to break the habit. I am researching the BR for a series of magazine articles, and want to present a more Chinese-focused view than is usual in Western published material. However, I don't read or write Chinese, which cuts off good sources because so little has been translated into English, or any other European language I could handle.

If anyone on the forum shares my interest I would very much like to hear from them, please.

Mike

[The_Zergling]

Hmm... first off I guess it's easier if you state what you want to know? The mindset of the Chinese people going into the Rebellion, the aftermath from their point of view?

[kunmingren]

From what i remember growing in in mainland, they are portrayed as nationalistic hero who are trying to save china, only to be betrayed by the qing government.
But i think recently alot of media (movies and tv series) has more or less changed into the view of them being masses of ignorants, and even shows the atrocities they commited against chritian missionaries.

[fishhead]

It was nothing but today's Muslim rebellion against the west.

Same slogans, same way of fighting, I think Muslims are even more civilized today.

[Mike Blake]

Thanks for the responses.

In answer to The Zergling's qusetion, I am after both, but more the mindset going in than that after. But most of all I am after contemporary Chinese descriptions of the events. I am not looking for modern interpretations or views on the Rising, interesting though they may be, except where they quote from sources contemporary to the Boxer Rebellion.

I have a great deal of information, mostly from primary sources, about the Allied armies, their views of the actions that were fought and of the performance and appearance of the Boxers and the Imperial Chinese army. What I would like to find would be Chinese views at the time of the Allied armies, and of the two Chinese forces. Even the smallest snippets would be useful for giving a different world-view.

All contributions will be acknowledged in the published articles, of course.

Thanks

Mike

[fishhead]

Thanks for the responses.

In answer to The Zergling's qusetion, I am after both, but more the mindset going in than that after. But most of all I am after contemporary Chinese descriptions of the events. I am not looking for modern interpretations or views on the Rising, interesting though they may be, except where they quote from sources contemporary to the Boxer Rebellion.

I have a great deal of information, mostly from primary sources, about the Allied armies, their views of the actions that were fought and of the performance and appearance of the Boxers and the Imperial Chinese army. What I would like to find would be Chinese views at the time of the Allied armies, and of the two Chinese forces. Even the smallest snippets would be useful for giving a different world-view.

All contributions will be acknowledged in the published articles, of course.

Thanks

Mike

Then you need to learn Chinese since the bulk of info were never translated into any western languages.

[FuManChu]

The only helpful piece of information I can think of is a translated article by Professor Yuan Weishi (Zhongshan University). It's a criticism of what he sees as the prevailing attitude towards the Boxer Rebellion and other associated history.

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060126_1.htm

The website also gives an account of the controversy caused by the article. For those that know about this it's old news, but if you're completely new to the area it might help.

I would suggest you write directly to some academics at major universities in the US, as there are a lot of Asian-focused historians out there.

[crobato]

From what i remember growing in in mainland, they are portrayed as nationalistic hero who are trying to save china, only to be betrayed by the qing government.
But i think recently alot of media (movies and tv series) has more or less changed into the view of them being masses of ignorants, and even shows the atrocities they commited against chritian missionaries.


I call it a shift in politics.

When nationalism seems more in vogue, they're portrayed as national heroes. But when the government has become wary of religious based extremism, the view also changed on the Boxers.

[Mike Blake]

Fishhead - that is the point I made in my original post. But as a freelance writer if I tried to learn every language I really need for primary sources I would be in language school all day everyday and never get any writing done! ;-) Therefore as far as Russian, Japanese & Chinese are concerned I have to rely on others, whilst I cope with French, German, Italian and Spanish.

FuManChu - that is very helpful. I will take a look at this. Translations are what I am after, or someone who is also intrested in the BR and with whom I can exchange information. I would be delighted to share my material from western sources [which includes a great deal of Russian material].

Although I am doing this for publication, the BR has become a very particular interest of mine [my wife says obsession] and I pursue it as a personal interest too.

Many thanks

Mike

FuManChu

That reference really is most useful, many thanks.

Mike

[fishhead]

Fishhead - that is the point I made in my original post. But as a freelance writer if I tried to learn every language I really need for primary sources I would be in language school all day everyday and never get any writing done! ;-) Therefore as far as Russian, Japanese & Chinese are concerned I have to rely on others, whilst I cope with French, German, Italian and Spanish.
Mike

The point is, the Boxer rebellion history is quite contradictive in China, while in the west the opinion is roughly one-side story.

It's rarely mentioned and discussed in the mordern history study, since it has no direct relation with the current political affair(not like the KMT/CCP issue). Also many Chinese don't like the Boxer rebellion way of fight, they don't see it as a glorious story. But on the other side, many still support and endorse the Boxer rebellion, which is still the official line of CCP.

So the translation of material into west language is pretty much selective and political in the nature. You can't claim that it reflects the contemporary or the present Chinese view, neither.

[Mike Blake]

Fishhead

I appreciate all the points you are making, thank you. Is it not better that exactly because '...while in the west the opinion is roughly one-side story' it is worth trying to get more Chinese-centric views? However 'biased' they may be, at least they are Chinese views - and that is what I am trying [rather unsuccessfully!] to do.

That said, I am also after data, like numbers, clothing, uniforms, weapons etc. Again, any primerary sources anyone can access would be of great help.

Mike

[FuManChu]

FuManChu

That reference really is most useful, many thanks.

Mike

No problem - glad to have been of any assistance. Don't forget to try a few academic sources - they normally respond positively to e-mail enquiries if you're quite humble. ;)

[szbd]

The only helpful piece of information I can think of is a translated article by Professor Yuan Weishi (Zhongshan University). It's a criticism of what he sees as the prevailing attitude towards the Boxer Rebellion and other associated history.

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060126_1.htm

The website also gives an account of the controversy caused by the article. For those that know about this it's old news, but if you're completely new to the area it might help.

I would suggest you write directly to some academics at major universities in the US, as there are a lot of Asian-focused historians out there.

Oh man, no, this guy Yuan Weishi sucks. He's a professor of department of Philosiphy, not History. All his work was about to say what we Chinese think are wrong, and we should accept western ideas. He make constent mistakes in history and his view is even more biased than biased western views.

A fact is, in Chinese university, a faculty gets funding according to the number and quality of papers he publishes. Well that's basicly same for every country. So the quality of a paper is measured by the rating of the journal or conference where the paper is published. The ratings are decided by westeners, so some people just make the paper close to western views to get easily published in high rated journals. And of course, these papers have English translation.

[fishhead]

Oh man, no, this guy Yuan Weishi sucks. He's a professor of department of Philosiphy, not History. All his work was about to say what we Chinese think are wrong, and we should accept western ideas. He make constent mistakes in history and his view is even more biased than biased western views.


Well let's put it fair, he has the right to express his opinions, even his one is quite marginal in Chinese.

Last year, a Chinese CCP newspaper editor tried to publish one of his old article but it caused widespread protest from the people. It's a really old artilce first coming out in the internet, but 90% of the readers' reaction are negative.

[FuManChu]

It's a really old artilce first coming out in the internet, but 90% of the readers' reaction are negative.

That doesn't surprise me. The professor's position is not a popular one, so most people will automatically react against it. It would be like someone writing an article saying an independent Taiwan could be good for China - people react emotionally rather than think objectively.

All his work was about to say what we Chinese think are wrong, and we should accept western ideas.

That does not sound like the argument he was putting forward in his paper - did you even read it? He was saying that understanding the Boxer Rebellion is not so simple as to take the current "official" line put about in schools and so forth. He was asking for balance, not replacing a one-side account from the Chinese POV with a one-sided account from the foreign POV.

The ratings are decided by westeners, so some people just make the paper close to western views to get easily published in high rated journals. And of course, these papers have English translation.

I rather doubt your knowledge of on such matters, based upon what you said - the article was not originally translated. The only reason it is in English is because a Chinese blogger translated it.

[fishhead]

I would say the publishing of the article is rather commerisal motivated than political. The author published his view in an academic magazine first but failed to aroused many attention. He posted it on the internet still not many showed much interest except contempted.

The CCP newspaper editor chose to publish it probably due to the commerical reason since today the Chinese newspapers are profit driven, publishing a contradictive article would sure boost its number of readers.

But this time it ran into the publich roars, an article like this in China is just like a holocaust denial article in the west, still a taboo for the mainstream medias.

[lyhx]

about the BR in our country does not any people concern it !!
in my high school the history textbook said the boxer rebellion were the national hero and striked with the foreign invader .,abd the CCP also the national hero and fight with the japan invader . but now more facts were revealed that the BR just a numerous extremist ,they are only a lot of pitful people . they did not know about the complexion and imposed by the qing dynasty emperor's mother "cixi" .

but in the national crisis ,i think every one would be an craze patriot. just as the western papers described "extremist"!!!!