Yak-38!??

[yoroxiku]

is yak-38 the only russian jump-jet??? who will win???
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal4/3301-3400/gal3310_Yak-38_Lai/03.jpg

[MadMax]

do you mean yak 38? the yak 141 freestyle is the a later one but its was only built in limited numbers as a prototype later it became the basis for the F 35 jsf in fact lockheed martin worked with yakolev to design the F 35

[yoroxiku]

do you mean yak 38? the yak 141 freestyle is the a later one but its was only built in limited numbers as a prototype later it became the basis for the F 35 jsf in fact lockheed martin worked with yakolev to design the F 35
sorry i mean yak 38, yak 36 is The Freehand was powered by two non-afterburning Soyuz Tumanskiy/Khatchaturov R-27-300 turbojet engines (11,000 lb thrust each) mounted forward of and below the cockpit. They were fitted with louvered nozzles, which were vectorable through about 90?and exhausted at the center of gravity (c.g.), similar to the Bell X-14 (#18). Engine bleed air was used for reaction control nozzles at the tip of each wingtip fairing, on the tailcone, and at the tip of a ten foot long nose "probe." The overall length was 57.5 ft long (including the nose probe), with a wingspan of 27 ft. Empty weight was 12,346 lb, maximum take-off weight was 20,723 lb. The Yak-36 made its first untethered hover on 9 January 1963. From there, the flight envelope was slowly expanded, with a double transition from vertical take-off to forward flight and back to vertical landing performed on 16 September 1963. A number of retractable doors (including a large "apron" under the nose) were fitted to reduce hot gas reingestion. It was only capable of vertical take-offs and landings. The first public display was at the Soviet National Aviation day on 7 July 1967 at the Domodedovo Air Show. The Yak-36 was a technology demonstrator that eventually led to the operational Yak-38 Forger.
http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/20.jpg

[MadMax]

thats the first picture iv seen of a yak 36 never new much about it other then it was the predecesor to the yak 38 the
yak 141 was the worlds only super sonic stovl/vtol aircraft in the world till the jsf programn

[MIGleader]

both the harrier and yak 38 have had appaling accident rates. both will be outdated really soon. the jsf is not a vtol, but is an stol.

[MadMax]

the jsf can be a stol aircraft vtol with limited payload or stovl thats short takeoff vertical landing witch is how the the harrier is best oppereated
the harrier only had accidents cause its pilots were porly trained
in the end the yak 38 was a complete failure and the harrier became very sucsesfull

[MIGleader]

so wrong.
the harrier is catch 22. it had a big accident rate, which led to minimal flight hours for pilots, which led to more accidents.

the newer mcdonnel harrier is abit more reliable.

[Raven]

The orginal Hawker Siddly Harrier was a fast bird and was also VSTOL capable. The Yak Foger pictures with that Harrier GR7 was never very effective outside of use to kill NATO P-3s. It would have been an easy kill for 4th Generation aircraft as well as older fighters (Mirages III/V, EE Lightings etc)

The newest Harriers AV-8B+ and Night Attack AV-8B are more attack aircraft than fighters. The FA-2 Sea Harrier being phased out of RN Service is still an excellent aircraft and is more of a strike fighter. The Indian Navy is very happy with them and the Blue Vixen radar.

There will be three versions of the F-35.

Conventional TOL for the USAF

STOL for the US Navy (larger wings)

VSTOL for the US Marine Corps

While there have been many attempts, the only sucessful VSTOL aircraft has been the Harrier used by Spain,India,Italy,Britain, the US Marine Corps, the RAF and FAA and even Thailand. The aircraft IS very demanding and unforgiving on pilots. It is a maintenance nightmare but starting with the AV-8B and the GR4 in RAF service, the loss rate went down. All users put only the best pilots in the Harriers. I know many Harrier pilots and they love the jet. But there will be bonuses and setbacks for the transition to the JSF. One thing that has greatly helped the US pilots is the use of very capable flight simulators. I have been fortunate to have flown the F-16 ADF (my friends flew the F-14B, I got cheated!!). The simulators mean the pilots can get more time and experience without the risk of lost of life,aircraft and useage of fuel. Also use of the TAV-8B reduces the risk of accident. The Harrier still has the highest accident rate but it and the F16 are low level aircraft with single engines. All have proven capable in combat.

[adeptitus]

If this is a comparison between the Harrier and the Yak-38, it's kinda irrevelent now since the Yak-38's have been withdrawn from service.

The latest Sea Harriers can use AIM-120 AMRRAMs and is vastly surperior to the Soviet Yak-38.

[MIGleader]

the sea harrier is old, no matter how much new gear you put on it. indias carrier is old, and so are its harriers. the harrier is capable, but is not very fast or manuverable to good degree. this would be the king of aircraft a chinese thales can shoot down.

the yak 38 is nothing more than crap.

[MadMax]

not very manuverable? tell that to the enemy pilots during the falklans the harrier can fly circles around most other planes cause it can slow down very quick and change direction very fast

[MIGleader]

no, not as much as a j-7. any ciws will dice a harrier or yak

[MadMax]

can a J 7 slow down to a 150mph then completly change direction i dont think so the tvc nozles can be used to turn too not just hover

[MadMax]

a J 7 probably wouldnt get that close anyway since the harrier now has AIM 120

[MIGleader]

i did not say a j-7 can beat a harrier, i just said it had beter aero dynamic charictaristics.

just cause a harrier can turn in mid air in slow spped is not manuverable. thats like a helicopter. a missle will easily down it at sliow speed.

[sumdud]

The latest stats on the Harrier actually looks pretty good.
GR7: http://airwar.ru/enc_e/fighter/harrier7.html
GR5: http://airwar.ru/enc_e/fighter/harrier.html
FA2: http://airwar.ru/enc_e/fighter/sharrierfa2.html
Can't find GR4 here.

Supersonic?!

[MadMax]

the Harrier GR Mk2 shot down 22 argentine mirageIII fighters while not having a singal combat loss and they wernt even designed for air to air combat
the newer FA Mk2 is much improved in A to A now that it has the Blue vixon radar and AIM 120 amraam
and no Harrier is supersonic there was a concept drawing in the mid 60's but it was scraped
the McDonnell Douglas/British Aerospace Harrier II aka AV8 Harrier is the best ground attack version so far but the FA Mk2 sea Harrier is the best A to A version

[Gollevainen]

the Harrier GR Mk2 shot down 22 argentine mirageIII fighters while not having a singal combat loss and they wernt even designed for air to air combat
the newer FA Mk2 is much improved in A to A now that it has the Blue fox radar and AIM 120 amraam

...Those harriers doing the shootdowns where Sea harriers whit blue Vixen radars, not the GR.2...tough no amraams where then availaple...only sidewinders...

[MIGleader]

the Harrier GR Mk2 shot down 22 argentine mirageIII fighters while not having a singal combat loss and they wernt even designed for air to air combat
the newer FA Mk2 is much improved in A to A now that it has the Blue vixon radar and AIM 120 amraam
and no Harrier is supersonic there was a concept drawing in the mid 60's but it was scraped
the McDonnell Douglas/British Aerospace Harrier II aka AV8 Harrier is the best ground attack version so far but the FA Mk2 sea Harrier is the best A to A version


wellm the argentinaian pilots wern't very well trained for a2a, just to fire exocets.

[Knarfo]

...Those harriers doing the shootdowns where Sea harriers whit blue Vixen radars, not the GR.2...tough no amraams where then availaple...only sidewinders...

The Sea Harriers used by the FAA during the Falklands war were equipped with the Blue fox radar and they were armed with AIM9L which was the newest available sidewinder at that time. The Blue vixen is the one used in the FA MK2. The RAF harriers were GR 3.

[Knarfo]

wellm the argentinaian pilots wern't very well trained for a2a, just to fire exocets.

Exocets were only launched by Super etendards of argentine had only a handful.
The argentineswere operating at the very limit of their combat radius and they could not spend any time or fuel on a2a combat. The Superetendard is not a manouverable aircraft and it would have been useless to try and engage sea harriers. The majority of agentine sorties were flown by skyhawks dropping regular iron bombs. These pilots were described by the english as very brave and skilled. The argentine mirages were not succesful and frequently launched their a2a missiles outside parameters. But again they were operating at the edge of their combat radius and did not have time spend in the combat zone. The Argentines were also completly without help from and ground based radars and fighter controllers.

[Knarfo]

do you mean yak 38? the yak 141 freestyle is the a later one but its was only built in limited numbers as a prototype later it became the basis for the F 35 jsf in fact lockheed martin worked with yakolev to design the F 35

The yak-141 is not the basis for the f35. However yakovlev (or the engine bureau) assisted in the design of the swiveling engine nozzle of the STVOL version of the F35

[Gollevainen]

Welcome Knarfo to our new forum...

The Sea Harriers used by the FAA during the Falklands war were equipped with the Blue fox radar and they were armed with AIM9L which was the newest available sidewinder at that time. The Blue vixen is the one used in the FA MK2. The RAF harriers were GR 3.

thanks for correctin my post. During the Falkland's war RAF harriers where also operated from the Hermes and Invincible (and from the auxialliry decks, like Atlantic Voyager) and afterwards it become a standart that RAFs harriers where deployded for ground attack role...

[Lavi]

If there is one thing one should NOT do when being in a fight with a Harrier it is to try to outturn it. The Harrier is one of the most manouvarable jets in service in any air arm today. It still is a very fine fighter (FA.2) and a great CAS-machine (AV-8B). The Yak-38 was inferior in more or less every aspect, especially against the Sea Harrier. The Sea Harrier also showed its strength when fighting of Argentinian Mirages and Daggers in the Falklands War.

A modern Sea Harrier is not much older than many other aircrafts in service today, basic airframes live very long, although more or less everything else on aircrafts (engines, avionics, weapons...) are changed.

Anyone has any sources on the Yak/JSF cooperation or the high accident rates for the Harrier?

[Knarfo]

I
Anyone has any sources on the Yak/JSF cooperation or the high accident rates for the Harrier?

I made a brief search on the web and could not find any quote of the nozzle being designed with the help of Yak. Just statements like...patterned on the yak nozzled .... or ....inspired by.. I thought I had a foggy recollection of an article in air international where it said that Yak had participated is some capacity. Sorry for my likely brain fart....

[Knarfo]

I thought I had a foggy recollection of an article in air international where it said that Yak had participated is some capacity. Sorry for my likely brain fart....


Ok...maybe my fart was not so smelly after all..
http://www.afa.org/magazine/jan2002/0102jsf.asp

[Lavi]

Thanks, this was new to me, I had missed that the F-35 uses the swiveling rear exhaust method.

[sumdud]

It still is a very fine fighter (FA.2)
What AA missiles can the Harrier carry? The main AAM they used are the AIM-9s, which I don't find appealing. And I don't think it havin a big enough nose to house a good enough radar. One version of the Harrier carries the AIM-120, but it wasn't the FA-2, was it?

If you mean dogfighting, no doubt, but it isn't all.

[MadMax]

the FA2 has a larger nose radome now, the AIM 9 and AIM 120 are its primary missles although it can be used with some european missles i think as well. Ill posty a pic of the new radome

new radome http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nick.challoner/aviation/pix/yeovilton/801-fa2.jpg
old radome http://www.military.cz/international/air/harrier/images/harfrs1_2.jpg
the new blue vixon radar in the FA2 is considered very good

[Knarfo]

the FA2 has a larger nose radome now, the AIM 9 and AIM 120 are its primary missles although it can be used with some european missles i think as well. Ill posty a pic of the new radome

new radome http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nick.challoner/aviation/pix/yeovilton/801-fa2.jpg
old radome http://www.military.cz/international/air/harrier/images/harfrs1_2.jpg
the new blue vixon radar in the FA2 is considered very good

Some american harrier 2s have now been fitted with apg-65 radar, i.e. the same radar as FA-18A/B. IIRC also the spanish harrier and italian harrier 2 have radar.
These are also amraam capable.
The european missile you are talking about is probably the british asraam which has entered service on RAF GR7.