Japan becoming a chinese province

[ahho]

source:http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070227/wl_asia_afp/japanchinamilitarypolitics;_ylt=AhM6krn0mRh6j_uJRr bublMBxg8F

TOKYO (AFP) - A top Japanese policymaker has warned that Japan risks becoming a Chinese province due to the Asian giant's growing military spending, domestic media said Tuesday.
Shoichi Nakagawa, policy chief of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, called on Japan to question China's future intentions, despite an effort by the two countries to ease tensions.

"If something goes awry in Taiwan in the next 15 years, then within 20 years Japan might become just another one of China's provinces," Nakagawa said Monday in the central city of Nagoya, as quoted by the Sankei Shimbun daily.

"If Taiwan comes under (China's) complete rule, Japan could be next," he was quoted as saying later at parliament.

The ruling party said it did not have a transcript of Nakagawa's remarks.

Nakagawa is known for his hawkish views. He has called in recent months for Japan to consider developing nuclear weapons and to reconsider its apology to women forced into sexual slavery by Japanese troops during World War II.

His remarks are a sharp change of tone from Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who has worked to repair ties with China since taking office in September.

Nakagawa charged that China had ambitions beyond Taiwan, where nationalists fled from the mainland after losing the civil war in 1949. Beijing considers the island a province awaiting reunification.

"China has behaved calmly up to now in rising peacefully, but when the year 2010 is over, there is a possibility that it could continue in a non-peaceful way," Nakagawa said, as quoted by Kyodo News.

He said that if China is not seeking "hegemony," then it should make its military spending "more transparent and show that by its actions."

IMO this is just another way to portray China is a big bad thing, yet still the comment has no merit in it. They are saying like when taiwan is conquered, we are next, yet japan was never a part of china while taiwan is.

this is the funny part, If taiwan hold talks and reunite with china, will japan hold talks and unite with China :rofl:

another interpretation of this is like upgrading your computer to play better 3d shooter and the person would be labelled as teh haxor by the neighbour when he has intel core 2 extreme 6800

[Ryz05]

They should just create an East Asia Association, much like ASEAN or European Union, and end these silly threat theories.

[FuManChu]

I wouldn't listen to anything this guy says. He's putting on a bit of an act in my opinion to make people concerned.

[August First]

Tja, within the Japanese line of thinking, indeed it seems strange that Chinese expansion in military budget only has peaceful intents. After all, the current Japanese self-defence force is a contradictory in terms: During WWII the Nazi army is called the Wehrmacht (Defence force).

Looking at the past, it is NOT China that had invaded Japan, but it is Japan that tried twice: once in the 17th and once in the 20th century. The third time around, things may not be that easy anymore. Hiroshima and Nagasaki will look like a puberty acne once the gloves come off!

[Gollevainen]

Ok, please take notice that this is military forum, and only non military issues that are allowed are light-hearted, Non political and non warmongering natioanlist chest-beating ones.

I will keep my eyes on this thread

Gollevainen, Super Moderator

[FuManChu]

After all, the current Japanese self-defence force is a contradictory in terms

Why? It doesn't have any long-range ballistic missiles, bombers, cruise missiles, nuclear submarines, missile submarines, aircraft carriers, relatively few amphibious vessels, etc. Seems very much like a self-defence force to me.

Looking at the past, it is NOT China that had invaded Japan, but it is Japan that tried twice: once in the 17th and once in the 20th century.

Japan did not invade China in the 17th century - you're thinking of Korea. You're also rather ignoring the fact that Japan has been a peaceful country for over 60 years, something which none of the permanent members of UNSC can claim for themselves.

[LIGO]

Japan did not invade China in the 17th century - you're thinking of Korea.

What about those Japanese pirates roaming on Chinese territory, numbered tens of thousands, in the 16th century, and their mass killings? (Qi Jiguang eliminated five thousand of them just in a single battle, and there were a series of hard battles.) I am sure if someone here looks hard enough he/she can find the exact number of these pirates what horrible things they did.


You're also rather ignoring the fact that Japan has been a peaceful country for over 60 years, something which none of the permanent members of UNSC can claim for themselves.


Like Japan had the ability to start another war. Who is it going to beat this time. USSR/Russia? China? Korea?

[FuManChu]

What about those Japanese pirates roaming on Chinese territory, numbered tens of thousands, in the 16th century, and their mass killings?

August was talking about invasions, not piracy. There is a rather important difference.

In addition, given Japan was in a state of civil war for a lot of the 16th century, and there was no strong, central administration able to manage privateers, it's pretty daft to compare it to an invasion. It would be like saying Somalia is robbing the seas off East Africa because that's where so many of the pirates come from.

Like Japan had the ability to start another war.

Isn't that rather the point? While all the other major powers were concerned about fighting each other (and spending large amounts of GDP on their militaries), Japan was quite happy to spend a modest sum on self-defence and no more.

[LIGO]

August was talking about invasions, not piracy. There is a rather important difference.

In addition, given Japan was in a state of civil war for a lot of the 16th century, and there was no strong, central administration able to manage privateers, it's pretty daft to compare it to an invasion. It would be like saying Somalia is robbing the seas off East Africa because that's where so many of the pirates come from.

Are there tens of thousands of organized Somalia pirates which have the ability to confront a full-scaled government army? When we are talking about such a large number of pirates fighting a systematic full-scaled war with an army led by one of the best known commanders in Chinese military history, Qi Jiguang (and Qi Jiguang is best remembered for his campaigns against the Japanese pirates), we know we are talking about something different. You can call it whatever you want, but it was an Japanese-waged war on Chinese territory nevertheless.

Isn't that rather the point? While all the other major powers were concerned about fighting each other (and spending large amounts of GDP on their militaries), Japan was quite happy to spend a modest sum on self-defence and no more.

Japan did not have the ability to start another war, largely due to Japan's neighbors grew stronger. Japan has the American military aid (both offensively and defensively) so it did not have to spend that much. Imagine how much Japan would spend without U.S. aid? And if now you compare all the Japanese equipments (Type 90 tank, FS-X, Aegis cruisers) with, say, the Chinese ones, we know what that “modest sum” is.

[FuManChu]

You can call it whatever you want, but it was an Japanese-waged war on Chinese territory nevertheless.

No you cannot, because you are implying it had anything to do with the Japanese State/Japan as a country and not groups of individuals.

Just because the Somalis are not conducting land assaults does not mean they aren't causing havoc in the region. War is not just conducted on land. So if we apply your logic then what we see on the seas off East Africa is a Somali-waged war on the world.

Japan did not have the ability to start another war, largely due to Japan's neighbors grew stronger.

The Japanese economy also sailed ahead, so if they wanted to spend more they could have done so easily. But they didn't.

And if now you compare all the Japanese equipments (Type 90 tank, FS-X, Aegis cruisers) with, say, the Chinese ones, we know what that “modest sum” is.

It's 1% of GDP, less than what China spends. Indeed if we use even the very modest figures put out by SIPRI (the lowest of all the estimates available), Chinese spending has already overtaken Japan's.

[BLUEJACKET]

IMO Japan will never become a province of China- maybe a modern equivalent of a tributary state, but not like Manjuria or even NK in the future.
The Japanese mentality and past history won't allow it- they would rather commit seppuku than kowtow to Beijing!

[FuManChu]

The Japanese mentality and past history won't allow it- they would rather commit seppuku than kowtow to Beijing!

Or they might just tell the Chinese to get lost very politely. After all, even if China's economy continues to grow at it's current pace, Japan would still be the third largest economy in the world even after being overtaken.

P.S. I know you were joking.

[frieden]

Or they might just tell the Chinese to get lost very politely. After all, even if China's economy continues to grow at it's current pace, Japan would still be the third largest economy in the world even after being overtaken.

P.S. I know you were joking.

Well, we are all going off topic here. It is impossible for japan to become one of china's province. Japan had never been one of them. I don't know how that guy will have such imagination. All his thoughts and speeches only create hatre and threat between two nations.
PS: Japan was not a peaceful nation at all. Let's count it only invaded China once, but it invaded Korean for more than 2 times. What about the occupation of TW before WWII, and also the northern Provinces in China a few years before WWII? You can court that as one invasion, because their time line is pretty close. And what about japanese invasion of philipine, vietnam, cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia?
Just consider that Japan is a lsland nation with very limited resource, It has to expanse its territory in order to gain more natural resource. War is only way in the past. Invasion will be the only solution for japan to survive in the past, there is no reason for japan to be a peaceful nation.
In current situation, Japan is rich and strong in military also. I know Japan eager to regain its military power and normalize itself. However, not China, but US doesn't want to see that happen. Because USA needs Japan to be its frontier outpost. USA wants Japan to remain under it's umbrella of influence.

[eecsmaster]

August was talking about invasions, not piracy. There is a rather important difference.

In addition, given Japan was in a state of civil war for a lot of the 16th century, and there was no strong, central administration able to manage privateers, it's pretty daft to compare it to an invasion. It would be like saying Somalia is robbing the seas off East Africa because that's where so many of the pirates come from.



Isn't that rather the point? While all the other major powers were concerned about fighting each other (and spending large amounts of GDP on their militaries), Japan was quite happy to spend a modest sum on self-defence and no more.

The typical western centric view from Dr. Fu...

Here is a point I think can never be stressed enough. In the far east, the link between historical and cultural identities and governance is much, much stronger than in the west. Something like this would be very hard for a Brit to understand. Afterall, there is hardly any mention of the once glorious Empire. In the far east, amongst the people, there is a perceived, and indeed, real continuity from historical events and current ambitions, and that is because the long line of governing ideaologies are never really broken.