lin biao vs Peng Dehuai

[Kilo636]

WHo is your favourite general of PLA between these 2?

Lin Biao
Stunning success of Shenyang campaign that help PLA captured whole mainland CHina.

Peng Dehuai
The highest command for PLA volunteer that ambushed and nearly wiped out the allied forces of Korea war but later suffered heavy losses against the allies..

My personal favourite will be Lin Biao, a cool and all mean business general who military genious is admired by many...

[yifyif]

WHo is your favourite general of PLA between these 2?

Lin Biao
Stunning success of Shenyang campaign that help PLA captured whole mainland CHina.

Peng Dehuai
The highest command for PLA volunteer that ambushed and nearly wiped out the allied forces of Korea war but later suffered heavy losses against the allies..

My personal favourite will be Lin Biao, a cool and all mean business general who military genious is admired by many...
cool all mean business and genious yes. admired i don;t know. He was ruthless durign the cultural revolution helped purged peng. Then trying defect and the plane crash. i guess waht goes around comes around. And speaking of shengyang, he pretty much block the city and let about .25 million people starving to death. As of peng duhai, he actually sticked to his peasant roots and the only person who had the balls to stand up to mao durign the lushan conference when no one dare to which ultimately lead to his down fall.

[Jiang]

Lin Biao is a super military genuis. Russia once wanted to use 10 of her top generals to trade Lin Biao. However, China refused.

Lin Biao was killed on his way escape to Russia. Some says his plane crashed. But I think his plane is shut down by China's air defence. To Sad:(

As talent wise Lin Biao is a lot better. However, Pend Dehuai is more loyal.

[yifyif]

Lin Biao is a super military genuis. Russia once wanted to use 10 of her top generals to trade Lin Biao. However, China refused.

Lin Biao was killed on his way escape to Russia. Some says his plane crashed. But I think his plane is shut down by China's air defence. To Sad:(

As talent wise Lin Biao is a lot better. However, Pend Dehuai is more loyal.

well actually lin's plane crashed b/c it ran out of fuel. B/c lin biao's daughter informed the guards the night before the tri[ that lin biao was defecting. SO they left in a hurry i mean literally with the guard's jeep chasing behind them. they got to the airport at shanghaiguan and the plane just to started refuelling. But the plane had to take off right away so there wasn't enough fuel to go to guandong. yes russia was actually their fall back destinations b/c they orginally wanna escape to Guangdong then go to hongkong. b/c the Guangzhou military regions commander was loyal to linbiao. Plus the plane also had to fly low to avoid radar which uses more fuel. so the plane crashed in mongolia due to lack of fuel

[Jiang]

well actually lin's plane crashed b/c it ran out of fuel. B/c lin biao's daughter informed the guards the night before the tri[ that lin biao was defecting. SO they left in a hurry i mean literally with the guard's jeep chasing behind them. they got to the airport at shanghaiguan and the plane just to started refuelling. But the plane had to take off right away so there wasn't enough fuel to go to guandong. yes russia was actually their fall back destinations b/c they orginally wanna escape to Guangdong then go to hongkong. b/c the Guangzhou military regions commander was loyal to linbiao. Plus the plane also had to fly low to avoid radar which uses more fuel. so the plane crashed in mongolia due to lack of fuel

Thanks for the info.

[Kilo636]

Lin Biao is a super military genuis. Russia once wanted to use 10 of her top generals to trade Lin Biao. However, China refused.

Lin Biao was killed on his way escape to Russia. Some says his plane crashed. But I think his plane is shut down by China's air defence. To Sad:(

As talent wise Lin Biao is a lot better. However, Pend Dehuai is more loyal.

Allies forces of Korea WAr is fortune that Lin Biao was sicked during that time. Or else Lin will be the one leading the Chinese Volunteer to attack the Allies which I think will be even a more disaster for them!

[yifyif]

Allies forces of Korea WAr is fortune that Lin Biao was sicked during that time. Or else Lin will be the one leading the Chinese Volunteer to attack the Allies which I think will be even a more disaster for them!

lin biao was quite a srewed up guy actually. He had water phobia and air phobia. When he's taking a shit he has to squad on the bed with a blanket cover over him. Yea he had quite a few phobia. also an drug addict. (hooked on morphine for a while due to his injuries i believe) Well he looke d like one too.otherwise He's a genius. But all genius is ****** in some ways.

let's use some civilized language and constructive criticisms please.
-- T-U-P

[simonov]

The western historian always said that Pang De huai send human wave to face them. Is it true, what the strategic tactics that applied by him to face the Allied bomber and artilery?i

[techno1911]

The western historian always said that Pang De huai send human wave to face them. Is it true, what the strategic tactics that applied by him to face the Allied bomber and artilery?i

That is not really all there is too it.

Pang had a problem durring KW, china lack the heavy machine to do suppression fire when they need to flank or roll a position. He end up using the troops in human waves to do what they lacked in heavy support units.
Yes he had used human lives to gain military advantage on the ground, but most western historian failed the add is the human wave is only a distraction, they are always combined with either a flank attack or a pincer roll type.

You have to realize since the invention of the maxium-machine gun, no frontal attack can be successful on any fortified postion when the attacker don't have overwleming firepower. WWI is the prefect example. Those were true human wave attacks that gains nothing.

[Violet Oboe]

In the last few years a couple of articles were published in Russia, China and also by a japanese historian maintaining that the Sovietunion was heavily involved in the Lin Biao affair. Lin Biao wanted to normalize the relations with Moscow and after cementing his position as Mao's successor he wanted even reestablish the strategic axis with the USSR.
Of course Mao and Zhou Enlai did everything to prevent this from happening since they identified the USSR as ´the enemy´ and had decided to normalize relations with the US as a counterweight to soviet ´social imperialism´. Some knowledgeable experts agree that Lin Biao was killed after he was arrested by a commando unit under orders from Zhou Enlai and that the entire ´mongolian plane crash´ was a convenient cover story keeping the lid on what really happened.
Interestingly there are existing some photos from the crash site depicting soviet troops and specialists searching the wreck but the soviets have never published anything useful about the remains of Lin Biao and about other aspects of the accident.:confused: Perhaps Moscow was ashamed of being caught red handed conspiring against the Mao/Zhou leadership and they kept mum about the affair for fear of turning the relationship with Beijing from bad to worse only to the delight of Washington!:D

Hopefully the government archives in Beijing will release some documents about the mysterious affair eventually shedding light on this dark spot of chinese history.:coffee: (but this will take some time I guess, perhaps a decade or so:( )

[Spike]

The western historian always said that Pang De huai send human wave to face them. Is it true, what the strategic tactics that applied by him to face the Allied bomber and artilery?i

Mass infiltration tactics are not the same as "human wave" tactics. Totally lacking in air support and artillery, and even lacking basic motor transport and supply, what Peng accomplished was a feat in itself.

[simonov]

Thats why all the PVA casualties not so high like Sovyet in eastern front
Thx guys

[Ender Wiggin]

addmittedly though if you look at Georgi Zhukov he lost the least amount of men throughout the entire engagement, some only 8% of his command I believ during the defence of Moscow. Humans waves pretty much is a myth.

[renmin]

Both people were weird.
The story of lin biao is a conspiracy but we know he wasnt a very nice guy
He has made countless sucess in warfare, a briliant tactician
Chairman Mao named lin Biao as his succesor, but that guy was already a old and beaten guy! Lin feared that by the time Mao died, he would be dead too!
When Lin could no longer hold it, he organized a group and engineered a plan to kidnap the beloved Chairman. The plan was that a group of thugs would kidnap the Chairman on his train and later terminate him. Then Lin Biao will rise to power. A clear sense of greed. Chairman Mao did not follow his plan to board the train but instead flew in a airplane. Some say it was the brilliant mind of the Chairman. Some say it was intelligence. One thing is for sure, Chairman Mao knew there was something wrong with the train.
Figuring out that his plan has failed, Lin took his family and fled for the USSR but his plane crashed somewhere in the north. This again is a mystery, we dont know if it was fuel loss or if it was shot down.

Marshall Peng is alot better than Lin.
He was what led to the PVA's success in the Korean conflict.
It is known that Prng argues with the Chairman alot. They disagreed in many things. Mao's son actually was killed under the Marshalls command during the Korean conflict.

[sinowarrior]

Lin is a far better commander compared to Peng, even in the Red Army period, Lin is a better commander compared to Peng, as for the war with Japan, Lin was injured after that Ping Xingguan, so no further battle for him. Whereas Peng did command the army and fought the Bai Tuan Da Zhan, but whether this campaign was a success or not is questionable, since after the Japanese counter attacked the Chinese lost one of its best aid-de-camp, and Peng himself was nearly captured. During the civil war era, Lin really proved himself to be the god of war, he totally changed the balance of power in mainland China in his 4 years stay at Manchuria. He only had less than one hundred thousand troops to start up with but at the end, his entire army grew to one million men strong with the best equipment in the communist army, and that army like the Manchurian of the old, fought from Heilongjiang all the way to Hainan island. Even Peng’s initial success in Korea was based on Lin’s army, all the army commanders, staff members were in fact worked under Lin during the civil war, they were part of Lin's army. Apart from phobias I think the reason for Lin not to command in Korea is the Mao’s fear of him, Peng is simple and loyal to Mao and would obey Mao’s command, as demonstrated during the 5th campaign in Korea War, he initiated the campaign because Mao wished him to do so, regardless the opinion from the field commanders. If Lin was in command, he would have defied the wish of Mao, just like he had defied Mao’s command during the civil war. Also to note during the cultural revolution Peng was physically attacked by some of the Korea veteran generals simply they hated him for his way of command, the disregard to troop’s life.

[petty officer1]

I once read a personall biographpy of a personal aid of Lin Biao. In the book he was show as a semi-crazy old man, that agree with his wife all the time. during the culure revolution ignored many reports of chaos in military and not doing anything. In the later day of his life he start to construct ridicules military project- 1. cover AA guns with civilian roofs to provent them from been discovered. 2. instruct to construct men made "mountain" installation around beijing area. wasting money, man power. 3. construct civilian "horse back troops" .......

while he listen to military reports, he like to play with matches... very weird guy....

[Kilo636]

Lin is a far better commander compared to Peng, even in the Red Army period, Lin is a better commander compared to Peng, as for the war with Japan, Lin was injured after that Ping Xingguan, so no further battle for him. Whereas Peng did command the army and fought the Bai Tuan Da Zhan, but whether this campaign was a success or not is questionable, since after the Japanese counter attacked the Chinese lost one of its best aid-de-camp, and Peng himself was nearly captured. During the civil war era, Lin really proved himself to be the god of war, he totally changed the balance of power in mainland China in his 4 years stay at Manchuria. He only had less than one hundred thousand troops to start up with but at the end, his entire army grew to one million men strong with the best equipment in the communist army, and that army like the Manchurian of the old, fought from Heilongjiang all the way to Hainan island. Even Peng’s initial success in Korea was based on Lin’s army, all the army commanders, staff members were in fact worked under Lin during the civil war, they were part of Lin's army. Apart from phobias I think the reason for Lin not to command in Korea is the Mao’s fear of him, Peng is simple and loyal to Mao and would obey Mao’s command, as demonstrated during the 5th campaign in Korea War, he initiated the campaign because Mao wished him to do so, regardless the opinion from the field commanders. If Lin was in command, he would have defied the wish of Mao, just like he had defied Mao’s command during the civil war. Also to note during the cultural revolution Peng was physically attacked by some of the Korea veteran generals simply they hated him for his way of command, the disregard to troop’s life.

Why Mao fear Lin Biao early? I doubt so or else he will not make him 2nd in command during cultural revolution.. The successor of Mao...

Peng is by no means so royal and obedient to Mao. Remember,he is one of the pioneer to criticise Mao when his great leaps failed. No doubt Lin Biao is brilliant. Peng is good for the fact he is able to build up good rapport with his men,win their trust and is like a big brother ,taking care and able to lead them effectively.

[sinowarrior]

but Lin disobeyed Mao several times during civil war, Mao insist on fighting the KMT and block them outside of the Manchuria, but Lin disobeyed because he does not have the ability to do so, but if it is Peng he would obeyed just like what he did in Korea, a waste of human life without any military gain (the attack on seoul etc)