North Korean MiG-21s

[BLUEJACKET]

Does anyone know what variant are they and how they compare with PLAAF J-7s? How do they fit into overall NK AF structure?
Kazakhstan had transferred (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/532805.stm) lethal military equipment, specifically about 40 MiG-21 fighter aircraft, to North Korea. ..The Kazakhstani government finally admitted that the MiGs were sold to North Korea and that five shipments of a total of 30 MiG-21s had successfully taken place.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/airforce.htm



http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/8376/northkoreanmig2119781zx.jpg

[speculator]

Very biased when they said 'lethal' military equipment.

Well, acording to another site, the deal took place 7 years ago so i doubt they would be as advanced as the j-7's.

source:
http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/awst031.htm

[Pointblank]

Depends on which variant of the MiG-21 was sent to North Korea and what sort of upgrades were done to the Kazakhstani MiG's, their capabilities can somewhat suspect, especially if they are one of the more earlier versions.

[BLUEJACKET]

I tend to agree with what this site (http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/awst031.htm) says- thanks for posting, speculator!
If they are not already upgraded, they may be later. Plus, the KPAAF operates F7s (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/air-force-equipment.htm)which are the export version of the J7.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=112629

[SteelBird]

If the MiGs are something like the CG picture above then I doubt it is an advance version. Look, it has only 3 hardpoints while later version of J-7s has 5.

[Finn McCool]

Why would North Korea even want these planes? They're just taxing NK's already limited support capability without adding much to their overall defensive capability.

[Chengdu J-10]

Cheap alternatives, can pack a fight with modern fighters, limited options due to embargo, small airforce in need for fighters.

[BLUEJACKET]

Good points! MiG-21s (http://www.zap16.com/mil%20fact/mig-21.htm)are still being modernized (http://www.atfx.org/MiG-21_Fishbed,EN,16,19,,.html)for the 21st century, and the N. Koreans must have had good reasons for getting them!

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/military-aviation/5924-iaf-mig-21-bison-matches-upto-paf-f-16s.html

The MiG-21 (http://www.deltawing.go.ro/mig21saga.htm)flew or is still flying in more than 50 countries in Europe, Asia, Africa and [Latin (http://www.mig-21.de/english/cuba.htm)] America. ..In several air forces the MiG-21 survived their successors MiG-23 and MiG-29 or even replaced them.
And the recent introduction of the MiG-21 in Namibia shows the story of success goes on ...
http://www.mig-21.de/english/inservice.htm

North Korean (http://www.mig-21.de/english/northkorea.htm) armed forces have been massively supported with Soviet and Chinese weapon technology including - since the sixties - MiG-21s and F-7s. ..
Caused by the strict isolation of the country little is known about number and current state of North Korean MiG-21s and F-7s. However, it is to assume, that notwithstanding the bad economic situation of the country sufficiently material and personnel resources are available for the armed forces and that of the countries approximately 200 MiG-21 / F-7 a larger number is operational.
It was reported recently that Kazakhstan has delivered about 40 MiG-21s to North Korea via China.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc-N0sTGnyI

[isthvan]

Good points!MiG-21s are still [being modernized for the 21st century, and the N. Koreans must have had good reasons for getting them!

There is variety of reasons why NK procured those MiGs... They can be used as attrition replacements, used for spares and if we remember problems that some countries had whit J-7s there is good chance that some of them could replace older J-6/J-7 fighters in NK service... Also since they are most probably low millage late Bis variant they would offer upgrade in capabilities compared to older NK fighters...
As for upgrades since Israeli and Russian upgrades are unavailable to NK I would think that those MiGs will stay in there currant configuration...

[zraver]

There is variety of reasons why NK procured those MiGs... They can be used as attrition replacements, used for spares and if we remember problems that some countries had whit J-7s there is good chance that some of them could replace older J-6/J-7 fighters in NK service... Also since they are most probably low millage late Bis variant they would offer upgrade in capabilities compared to older NK fighters...
As for upgrades since Israeli and Russian upgrades are unavailable to NK I would think that those MiGs will stay in there currant configuration...

More sinister, ut could they be turned into a crude mach 2 cruise misisle?

[BLUEJACKET]

More sinister, could they be turned into a crude mach 2 cruise missile?
Of course they could, as well as older J-5 & J-6 models- in the last 16 years about 180 of them were withdrawn from service, if you compare their numbers again here (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/air-force-equipment.htm).
I think they could either upgrade them themselves or ask Cubans and/or Iranians for help- and if those just provide access to later variants the NKs would get something to work with. The picture in the first post may not be very accurate- the extra hardpoints could be added to the original 2, and there are launch rails for 2 missiles that can be attahed to each hardpoint.

[Chengdu J-10]

An upgrade package would be ideal for the NK with Mig 21/J-7 seen in the technology demonstration aircraft from the PLAAF the upgraded existing airframe of the J-7. Includes a solid nose, increase power in the turbojet, more modern avionics. This upgrade package would be ideal for the NK as a cheap ulternative to make the J-7 more modern upgrading their existing large fleet of Mig 21/J-7 instead of purchasing the whole aircraft from scratch. Cheap route in modernising its old fleet of Mig 21/J-7. J-7FS is what the technology demonstration aircraft was called.

[tphuang]

The North Koreans just got a bunch of J-7KGs a while back. Apparently, the new avionics on these were too much for them to handle.

[planeman]

Whatever they're varient they are not likely to be used in a tactically sound, or even strategicaly sound manner should war break out. Never underestimate an opponent is one thing, but the NKAF is still stuck in the 1960s. They have incredibly poor airfields with few support measures, virtually no hardened shelters save for tunnels into the mountains which are easily attacked (too few entrances, too few tunnels makes them a viable target).

[BLUEJACKET]

An upgrade package would be ideal for the NK with Mig 21/J-7 seen in the technology demonstration aircraft from the PLAAF the upgraded existing airframe of the J-7. .. J-7FS is what the technology demonstration aircraft (http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/specialaircraft/j7fs.asp)was called.
If they decide to buy it, it will still take years to achieve full capability; in the meantime, surplus MiG-21s from other countries like Kazakhstan would fill the gap.
Although the J-7 (http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j7.asp) is widely regarded as an obsolete design, Chengdu continued to introduce new models in the 21st century to satisfy the demands from both domestic and foreign customers for a low-cost solution to replace the large number of older fighters. The latest J-7G variant, which first flew in 2002, began to enter PLAAF service in 2003. As a result, the service life of this forty-year-old design may extend beyond 2015.

[BLUEJACKET]

Two MiG-21s were involved in the Pueblo Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)):
On January 23rd, 1968, the Pueblo was approached by a small North Korean naval vessel who demanded to know her nationality. The crew responded by raising the American flag, after which the North Korean ship ordered the Pueblo to either stop or be destroyed. Three North Korean PT boats were soon on the scene as well as two MiG-21 fighters.
http://mattstodayinhistory.blogspot.com/2005/12/crew-of-pueblo-released-december-23.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander_Lloyd_M._Bucher

Bucher: My Story (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0385072449/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/002-8323952-2756833?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books), by Lloyd M., Bucher