Yuan Class

[IDonT]

Does anybody know if the Yuan Class SSKs will be equipped with AIP?

[IDonT]

Wrong section oppps :D

Mods please move. Sorry ;)

[MIGleader]

speculation points towards a 90% yes. but no one is sure. the chinese might have put it on already, but not tell anyone.

[tphuang]

according to Chinese sources, yes.

[crazyinsane105]

according to Chinese sources, yes.

Agreed.

[MIGleader]

i'm pretty sure there fitted, but the chinese maybe holding it as a secret to surprise a cvbg.

if the us expects the diesels to submerge for 2-3 days, there wrong, and it could be a ace in the hole in an actual battle.

[slackpiv]

The US has experiance with all types of ssks from those with AIP and from those without. The problem with ssks is that they are not fast enough to catch a carrier group which can travel over 30 knots. Diesals, even with AIP, will still need to be able to slip through the carrier's ASW screen and be able to keep up with the carrier without being detected. A near impossible task.
but the chinese maybe holding it as a secret to surprise a cvbg.
If there are sources on the internet that say so than it is no secret.

[MIGleader]

it is still unconfirmed by credible sources. if the U.s expects no aip, they''ll be surprised

i dont get why the everyone thinks the yuan has to get to the cvbg when china can deploy the sub and let the cvbg come to it. after all, the chinese can set up the ocean battle field to their liking before the cvbg arrives.

[slackpiv]

it is still unconfirmed by credible sources. if the U.s expects no aip, they''ll be surprised

You don't understand. The USN prepares for ANY situation reponding in a moments notice.

i dont get why the everyone thinks the yuan has to get to the cvbg when china can deploy the sub and let the cvbg come to it. after all, the chinese can set up the ocean battle field to their liking before the cvbg arrives.

You clearly don't understand the capabilities of the ASW capabilities of the USN. the US will never send its CVBGs close to mainlnand china, but rather in the range of its aircraft where they can comfortably launch the strike power of the fleet.

[IDonT]

You don't understand. The USN prepares for ANY situation reponding in a moments notice.

The USN has leased the Swedish Gotland Class AIP SSK with its crew for a year.
They do this so it can practice and develop tactics to hunt and kill these types of subs in littoral environment


Gotland is one of the best SSK's in the world.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gotland/

In November 2004, the Swedish Government approved a proposal for the US Navy to lease HMS Gotland and crew for one year to participate in naval exercises. Gotland arrived at the Naval Air Station North Island, San Diego in June 2005. The submarine will operate in the opposing force (OPFOR) role.

[IDonT]

What is the sensor suite of the Yuan and the 093?
Can it detect and track Japans's Oyashio's or the USN's LA, Sea wolf, and Virginia class.

[vincelee]

What's your IQ? Asking questions no one in the US or on the internet can answer, and what not.

[IDonT]

What's your IQ? Asking questions no one in the US or on the internet can answer, and what not.
Can you be any more obnoxious?

[Gollevainen]

Now wach it! I just banned two members and my fingers are still in the thrigger...

[vincelee]

can you be any more unrealistic?

[Gollevainen]

One more vince and you'll get your seccond warning...and everybody else, stay in the topic or i will close this thread.

[PLABUDDY]

One more vince and you'll get your seccond warning...and everybody else, stay in the topic or i will close this thread.

Gollevainen can u please ban vincelee he won't stop discussing off-topic things as long as he's here.

by the way is it possible to know who got banned>

Also yuan class is the newer class of PLAN subs right? um..what are some of the pros and cons of the yuans.

[bd popeye]

You don't understand. The USN prepares for ANY situation reponding in a moments notice.

So true :)

You clearly don't understand the capabilities of the ASW capabilities of the USN. the US will never send its CVBGs close to mainlnand china, but rather in the range of its aircraft where they can comfortably launch the strike power of the fleet.

That's right. There is no need to. That would be a very poor tactic. A CVN is a great "standoff weapon".

[Jeff Head]

the chinese can set up the ocean battle field to their liking before the cvbg arrives.

The waters to the east of Taiwan are too large and open for that.

That is where the US CVNs will be operating.

Un less they are unbelievably lucky, and the US commanders are unbelievable derelect (and they will not be), then the PLAN SS boats are going to have to go to them in all likelyhood, and the CBGs will be scowering the waters in front of the carrier clean with ASW aircraft, DDGs, FFGs and other subs.

If an AIP DE boat tries to get up to speed to get a solution on the carrier itself, it will probably make enough noise to get itself killed.

[MIGleader]

true. but send a few mings and romeos with every yuan or kilo, and let tham be diststractions. but. if you are far away, the chinese get more warning time and reaction time.

[Jeff Head]

send a few mings and romeos with every yuan or kilo, and let tham be diststractions.

The likely outcome of that manuever is that they all will be sunk. Unless the PLAN subs are right in the path of the oncoming carrier and they all somehow avoid the US ASW sweep. With Romeos and mings that is highly unlikely and once one or more of them are found and targeted...and once torpedoes are in the water, it is likely that any subs in that vicinity will attempt to move away...thus revealing themselves.

[maddogy4645]

My opinion is that the Chinese subs are meant to be used to slow the movements of the carriers. What I mean is that if we look at the main antiship missile carried by the numerous indiginous subs, which is the C-802 or maybe C-803, we can see that the PLAN commanders don't expect the subs to wipe out a carrier group. These missiles are too slow to penetrate the Aegis defences designed to engage supersonic Russian missiles. Also they have small warheads which can't really do much damage. However, with the introduction of AIP or at least the rumours of, the carrier group must select their courses carefully as not to sail into an ambush consisting of several PLAN subs. Even if 2 carriers are present within this battlegroup, it still has to avoid obvious and expected spots where it is very likely that ambushes have been set. This restriction upon the carrier group movements can aid the PLAN in searching and tracking for the battlegroup. Thus PLAN has some idea of which direction and how far out should they send their reconaissance planes to look for the carriers. What I'm trying to say that the subs are meant to deny USN access to the landing zones long enough for the amphibious assaults to succeed.

[Jeff Head]

My opinion is that the Chinese subs are meant to be used to slow the movements of the carriers. What I'm trying to say that the subs are meant to deny USN access to the landing zones long enough for the amphibious assaults to succeed.

I agree. But the US CVNs will never appraoch the landing areas directly anyway. They will stand well off to the east of Taiwan and allow their aircraft to do the work. Thus the area that the Chinese will try and control or interdict is much, much larger.

But I agree that this is te likely tactic.

[vincelee]

"missiles are too slow to penetrate the Aegis defences designed to engage supersonic Russian missiles."

I suppose someone hasn't been looking at the radar LOS equation.

Here you go (well, the primitive form, not counting atmospherical absorption and all)


RHR = 2^0.5 (H + A)^0.5

H and A are both in feet...what's up with Americans and the English unit, seriously.

[vincelee]

and by the way, have you ever wondered why all US AShM...well there is only one, and that's the dirty harpoon, are subsonic? It's not that the US can't make a supersonic missile, vandal anyone? It's that the US chose a different doctrine. Where as the Russians use raw speed to decrease the reaction time available to the OPFOR to intercept the missile, the US uses a low profile. Two sides of the same coin. I'll venture to say that the SPY-1 has trouble dealing with the BrahMos, which actually flies below the sea surface in terminal due to the shockwave.

[MIGleader]

subs can be set up as obstacles under the sea, forcing a cvbg to take a certain route, into a trap. the chinese have been doing well with profile and speed on missles.

[tphuang]

and by the way, have you ever wondered why all US AShM...well there is only one, and that's the dirty harpoon, are subsonic? It's not that the US can't make a supersonic missile, vandal anyone? It's that the US chose a different doctrine. Where as the Russians use raw speed to decrease the reaction time available to the OPFOR to intercept the missile, the US uses a low profile. Two sides of the same coin. I'll venture to say that the SPY-1 has trouble dealing with the BrahMos, which actually flies below the sea surface in terminal due to the shockwave.
everything China has are sea skimming missiles.

[vincelee]

why don't you read the previous 5 posts or so before posting?

[Lavi]

A SSK has the ability (which a SSN, like 688 LA, Seawolf or Virgina doesn't have) to shut down their engine completly, and simply float around. This makes them completly silent (well, at least almost completly), up until the point when they fire their torpedoes. This means that a Yuan can detect a SSN if it's floating around, or moving very slowly, under 5 kts usually for a SSK. USN claims that the Seawolf has a silent running capability up to 20 kts, but no one knows how silent that is.

When facing a surface vessel, however, they (the surface vessels) usually use active sonar, the 'ping' you hear in every submarine movie, which works more as a radar. This only works short distances, and is therefore mainly a defensive measure, since a sub can hear it at longer distances than the surface vessel who used it can get a usefull echo back (compare this again to a radar). But, if a SSK waits for a CBVG to 'run over' it, then it will be found by active sonar, usually before it will get a good target motion analysis (TMA) of the carrier. Also, the Chinese Sea is HUGE, which means that a fleet could slip through a SSK 'net'. Here factors like satelites and reconnaisance comes into the picture.

Bottomline: no one knows for sure until it's tried.

[sumdud]

The range of the Klub that China is getting is Beyond-the-curvature of the Earth, so where will the Kilo get the targeting info from anyway if it's on one of those submarine nets? I wonder if the Chinese will make something similar in range to the Klub though. The missile is good, but the C-801Q's range is just low, 42 km.